Historic Boats for sale online

[magnetman]

OWL? (K2)

Kudos overload? Oh dear !

My favourite narrow boat of all of them but I'm not having a narrow again..

[David Mack]

16 minutes ago, magnetman said:

OWL? (K2)

Kudos overload? Oh dear !

My favourite narrow boat of all of them but I'm not having a narrow again..

Owl is a 1928 Bolinder boat, not a 1911 steamer.

 

Maybe Vanguard

https://hnbc.org.uk/boats/vanguard

Edited March 11, 2023 by David Mack

[stagedamager]

I thought it was Vanguard listed for sale

[agg221]

Vanguard looks the most likely. The only other 1911 composite steamer is Victory which is still around but not sure what engine it has in it currently?

 

Alec

[davidg]

48 minutes ago, agg221 said:

Vanguard looks the most likely. The only other 1911 composite steamer is Victory which is still around but not sure what engine it has in it currently?

 

Alec

It ain’t Victory.

And to answer the question a CE2

Edited March 13, 2023 by davidg

[magnetman]

Lister CE2 is a nice unit. 

Not as impressive as a K2 but possibly more practical I think and slightly less ear damage. 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Lister CE2 is a nice unit. 

Not as impressive as a K2 but possibly more practical I think and slightly less ear damage. 

 

 

My K2 is rather quiet actually. A helluvalot quieter than the Skandia ever was! 

 

 

[GUMPY]

16 hours ago, magnetman said:

Lister CE2 is a nice unit. 

Until the crank breaks, common fault with them. There were a lot of ex GPO ones about in the early 90's. Two friends fitted them despite the warning about cranks, both broke their cranks within 10 years.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Loddon

[Stroudwater1]

What is the  difference between a CE and CE2? I thought it was the CE that has a crank that can break? 

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

What is the  difference between a CE and CE2? I thought it was the CE that has a crank that can break? 

CE2 is a name sometimes incorrectly applied to the Lister CE, which is a 2 cylinder engine. The one cylinder version is the CD.

[furnessvale]

9 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

What is the  difference between a CE and CE2? I thought it was the CE that has a crank that can break? 

Don't know about the CE, but the Petter PD2 had that reputation.  I never had that problem but I put it down to only bolting 3 engine mounts down before carefully shimming the last one.  Probably all in my head,  but I was trying to remove any possibility of crankcase distortion.

[Tonka]

20 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Don't know about the CE, but the Petter PD2 had that reputation.  I never had that problem but I put it down to only bolting 3 engine mounts down before carefully shimming the last one.  Probably all in my head,  but I was trying to remove any possibility of crankcase distortion.

I had a PD2 and I dread to think how much an oil change would cost today. It used to take a case of Delvac and even then it was never on max. 

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

I had a PD2 and I dread to think how much an oil change would cost today. It used to take a case of Delvac and even then it was never on max. 

 

 

In principle the larger the reservoir of oil, the less frequently it needs changing, I'd have thought...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by MtB
Missing worm

[Tonka]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

In principle the larger the reservoir of oil, the less frequently it changing, I'd have thought...

 

 

 

 

You may be right but thinking like that may be why they broke the Crankshaft. I used to change the oil annually 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Tonka
Spelling

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

You may be right but thinking like that may be why they broke the Crankshaft. I used to change the oil annually 

 

 

Crankshafts don't break from contaminated lubrication. It will be either a flaw in the forging or metal fatigue, I'd have thought...

 

 

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Crankshafts don't break from contaminated lubrication. It will be either a flaw in the forging or metal fatigue, I'd have thought...

 

So why is it that certain engines earn a reputation for it.

 

Having seen a Petter PD2 crank (in two pieces!) laid alongside one from a Lister HA2, all parts of the Petter offering are massive compared to the Lister.

 

On might think that "massiveness" equated to strength, and expect the much less heavily engineered Lister to be the more prone to breaking, but I have never heard of an HA suffering such a failure, but one hears of plenty of examples with the Petter.

 

I believe the PD2 was principally built as a fixed speed industrial engine - could the failures in boa use be because it is put under much more strain with constant varying of the speed and load, rather than just chugging along all day under a constant load, and at constant speed?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

So why is it that certain engines earn a reputation for it.

 

Poor quality control in the forging, I'd suggest. 

 

I could ask why failing to change the oil regularly results in busted cranks on some engine models but not others. If you are arguing that failing to perform timely oil changes is the cause, that is. Are you? 

 

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Poor quality control in the forging, I'd suggest. 

 

I could ask why failing to change the oil regularly results in busted cranks on some engine models but not others. If you are arguing that failing to perform timely oil changes is the cause, that is. Are you?

 

No.  Like you I doubt that "newness" of the oil is a major factor.

But I don't know a lot about what makes one diesel long lasting, and another prone to early failure.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

But I don't know a lot about what makes one diesel long lasting, and another prone to early failure.

 

I think that makes two of us. 

 

On reflection I think that makes all of us, in the world! 

 

If anyone knew, word would spread and all engines would be made the 'long lasting' way.

 

 

[David Mack]

Putting the flywheel on the front of the engine and taking the drive from the back, as the older 'vintage' diesels do, puts a pretty big strain on the crankshaft if the propeller suddenly stops rotating and the flywheel tries to carry on (especially with the heavy flywheels of slow running engines). Whereas putting the flywheel between the load and the engine protects the crankshaft to a large extent.

[Jon57]

42 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Putting the flywheel on the front of the engine and taking the drive from the back, as the older 'vintage' diesels do, puts a pretty big strain on the crankshaft if the propeller suddenly stops rotating and the flywheel tries to carry on (especially with the heavy flywheels of slow running engines). Whereas putting the flywheel between the load and the engine protects the crankshaft to a large extent.

Or even 2 flywheels front and back.

[Pluto]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I think that makes two of us. 

 

On reflection I think that makes all of us, in the world! 

 

If anyone knew, word would spread and all engines would be made the 'long lasting' way.

Are you sure modern economics would allow that to happen? A bit of built-in obsolescence is considered good for business.

[Jonny P]

Is the K2 in question hand start? If so I hope there is a nice clear space around the engine.

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Pluto said:

Are you sure modern economics would allow that to happen? A bit of built-in obsolescence is considered good for business.

As suggested for LED lights, If there life really was 20 years all the manufacturers would go out of business The L.E.D. Quandary: Why There’s No Such Thing as “Built to Last” | The New Yorker

 

[Derek R.]

We had a PD2 that came out of a ships lifeboat. After installing it in YARMOUTH, we spent many years slogging around the system from Guildford to Gargrave, taking in the Thames and Trent. Never missed a beat. Straight through pipe - you could hear us coming. Get in a tunnel and the rythyms echoing from the tunnel roof from the exhaust would have you dancing on the back step. We'd heard about their cranks breaking, and one or two knowledgeable folk (ex-boatmen) had theories, including making them slog at low rpm, to poor starting techniques. Another suggested leaking oil coolers causing pressure drop. I always turned mine over a dozen times or so with the lifters up, hit the starter, drop the levers and she'd fire instantly, never failed. But one could not start her by hand, took two on the handle. Roger and I did it once. And I lost count of the times I'd forgotten to take the gas bottle cap off the exhaust to be followed by a clank on the roof as it landed, never accompanied by a splash oddly enough.

 

Sold the boat in late '92, and within three months heard the crank had broke. The chap also had caused damage to the Z bar, doing something that forced the bar and tiller so far forward, he had to cut some wood off the tiller handle to clear the top of the hatches.

 

I had heard that BW were offered a bunch of PD's from stationary sets to replace aging RN's, but don't know the truth in that. Maybe they were engines destined for landing craft and no longer required. 'Chip fryers', they weren't quiet mechanically being air cooled and much tinware.

 

The three pot version in TYCHO. Sods to work on.

 

PS: NOTE - the flywheel at the gearbox end.

 

 

 

A PDV8 generator set (image courtesy of young Mr. Riches.) Bet that sounded good!

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Derek R.