agg221

OK there are surveys and surveys, but as a recent buyer I agree it is definitely a level of reassurance, particularly in a fast moving market where you may need to buy without time to have your own survey done. We have not had a survey. We have a 170 year old boat and fully comprehensive insurance without one and didn't feel it would add any value under the circumstances. A friend has just bought a 116 year old boat without one too - in both cases it relates to specific reasons to have confidence in the file of paperwork which came with the boat. Alec

Leaving on Monday you will be well past Denham Lock - just worth being aware of as a reason not to leave it another week, regardless of the weather. I think you will be well past by the time we get moving (I will probably go down and give him a hand) but if you do happen across 'The King' then that's him/us depending on exactly when. Alec

Where are you setting out from in Herts? A friend has just bought a boat at Harefield and, subject to a few things being sorted, will be moving it down towards London in the very near future. It won't take the whole day to reach his mooring so if timing permits it may be possible to do at least a bit more of the trip, or at least travel in convoy for a bit of it. Are you aware of the imminent closure of Denham Deep Lock for a month if that affects your plans? Alec Edit: no it didn't sink, no it isn't painted London White - it's far nicer than that (and a whole lot more interesting), no he is not joining the endless line of boats in central London - much nicer basin mooring

That's what I would do. Assuming the boat has an inverter and a 240v socket there should be no problem working remotely from a shoreline. A power drill and potentially jigsaw should be all that's needed and they are rarely over 1kw. Alec

My new portholes were cast within a week. The glass is a month. Alec

Thanks - I recently joined the group and posed some questions - the ones above were those which didn't get an answer to so I wondered whether that was due to the lack of narrowboat-specific knowledge (or just my impatience :-)) The link to the installation photos is particularly useful, especially as some of them are very compact. I suspect a couple of them would not technically comply with the manufacturer's instructions, but on the other hand they are highly likely to result in charring so I can't see any problems. Food for thought. Alec

Thanks David - yes I am aware of the negligible protection provided by tiles and the risk of a fire starting behind, and hence the advantages of an air gap. The specific point is that this applies with a radiant stove where the heat radiates directly into the surface, ie it does get hot. With a convection stove the surface of the stove itself, and any surrounding surfaces, don't get hot. I know this; my query was whether an examiner could reasonably be expected to know this too and hence understand that an installation for a convection stove could be different from that for a radiant stove, or whether they may not understand this point and I would therefore risk a fail, and as such I should make the installation suitable for a radiant stove not for technical or safety reasons but simply to ensure a pass. Thinking about it though, your comment does have a substantial bearing on the installation of the flue which does generate significant radiant heat, so maybe it would be preferable to take the whole wall board out and replace with calcium silicate across the entire panel. I have become aware of this. My preference is to ensure that the boat is actually safe - my children sleep at the end where the stove is going so I have every reason to want it safe. It's an interesting thought to put the question directly to examiners who are members of the forum and I would very much welcome their input - I don't immediately know who they are though. Alec

It's a good thought - I am buying the stove through Lockgate (I hadn't previously realised but they sell second-hand stoves). Unfortunately whilst they had some of the information I needed, there are other parts which they don't. I have also managed to supplement the information directly through the documents on Refleks' own website and a reproduced on a couple of their continental suppliers. This has specifically enabled me to work out minimum distances from flammable and non-flammable surfaces, so the remaining questions that I couldn't answer through my own research are the ones posted above. The remaining questions are, I suspect, not Refleks-specific. They are more generally about installation of heating appliances under the BSS, which appears to be rather subjective. If it was as simple as 'no signs of scorching' then that would be easy to comply with (quick repaint before the examination...). I obviously don't want to burn my boat out either, but in practice if the body of the stove does not get hot, I don't really need to worry about the insulation properties of the non-flammable surface attached to the end of the bench seat since there is no risk of heat conduction through to the wood behind, since it won't actually get hot, so it is only a question of avoiding surface ignition. This is the reality but I am trying to work out whether an examiner would also see it that way. For the flue, it really will get hot so I do need to make sure it does not cause damage. This is more a question of how people have successfully dealt with flue installations in the past. At the stern-end, for the Epping stove, the tongue and groove lining has simply been cut through and removed in a strip, being replaced with calcium silicate board. This is functional but ugly. A line of tiles up the side of the wall to the roof would look marginally better but I am presuming people have come up with something that looks decent, so any thoughts on that welcome. This is where the difference in approach between Building Regulations and BSS becomes annoying. I want to be compliant, and to know that I am compliant, but I can't simply read the regulations and apply them, them safe in the knowledge that I am compliant. Compliance should surely be a matter of fact, rather than opinion? Cheers Alec

Thanks - this in part illustrates my problem. We have a brand new BSS so no need for inspection in the near future and by the time an inspection is due, anyone we speak to may well no longer be active. Hence the aim is to 'get it right' in a way that nobody will object to. My background experience comes from living in a Grade 2 listed house and building my own extension. By reading the building regs carefully and making sure I was compliant, I automatically passed - there was no room for opinion. On the Listed side, I could put forward a proposal and once it was approved in writing that was entered into the file and stood against any new officers choosing to review it. I am finding that the BSS is a lot more woolly and difficult to pin down, so whilst nobody can be definitive, I am hoping that a general consensus might develop - something along the lines of 'if you put 6mm calcium silicate board against the end of the seat and then tile over it then you will definitely have no problems' although that may be too optimistic? Thanks - yes, I had picked up on that and we have ordered a guard as part of it. I agree they look good, although I wouldn't personally want one in brass or copper - yet more polishing! Alec

I am about to install a 2066mk and could do with a few pointers on BSS compliance. The installation is very tight on space. The installation needs to go in a corner between the end of a dinette bench and the hull. The installation instructions do not require a minimum gap between non-flammable materials and the outer jacket (this is a convection stove so the outer jacket should remain relatively cool). Q. I can strip off the hull lining and replace with calcium silicate board but what do I need to do about the wooden end of the bench seat. Is it sufficient to fix a calcium silicate board to it and tile it/cover it in a stainless sheet? The same with the flue running up the cabin side - installation says a minimum 100mm from a non-flammable surface so do I need to strip out the current lining board and apply calcium silicate board instead? If so, has anyone managed to do this and find a way make it look half-decent, rather than just a strip of calcium silicate board running up the cabin wall? I wondered about replacing the whole wall with a large board but that seemed excessive. Thanks Alec

One of the photos shows lines of rivets on the bottom so maybe still original? Alec

I have done both. I have also been caught once with the Severn going into flood. The time we did the Avon ring, we went from Wootton Wawen and, against the advice of the hire company, we went down the Avon first and then up the Severn. We were very glad that we did as all the boats which went the other way around got caught and did not make it back. To be honest, I found the Avon rather dull. Limited mooring choices and although the towns would be interesting if that was what you were looking for, the actual waterway didn't have much to offer. I didn't enjoy the stretch upstream on the Severn much either, even fewer mooring options and running flat out against the current on a large river. It was a real relief to get back to canals at Worcester. Having just done the Four Counties in late August, and added in the Caldon (which is probably my favourite canal of all) I still prefer that one. On an earlier point, I am not trying to sell Birmingham, but it is perhaps worth mentioning why I suggested it as a side trip (which coincidentally is equally possible from the Avon ring). If you look at a canal map of Birmingham, you will see that there is a lot of it! Most of the network is now a bit of a backwater, often little used and not generally somewhere you would choose as a first place to see. This is where some of the mooring issues also arise. But, straight through the middle of the Birmingham Canal Navigations, running East to West from Birmingham to Wolverhampton, is the Main Line, which is actually two parallel main lines in parts, Old and New. A trip down this gives a real sense of the industrial purpose of the canals. I would not describe it as a tourist destination but it does give a view on the history and a fair amount of that still survives. I am not aware of anyone having any issues travelling this route, and it allows for a very nice city centre mooring in Birmingham itself, around the redeveloped heart of the network with plenty of choices for restaurants and a walk around the centre. Stopping at the Black Country Museum provides a nice mooring too, and a real insight into the area 100 years ago. Look up the museum website if you want to see more. The top of the Wolverhampton flight also provides a safe mooring if you don't want to tackle the flight until the following day, and a walk around Wolverhampton is again surprisingly enjoyable. My personal favourite is to visit the art gallery there, particularly because of their collection of works by Edwin Butler Bayliss, but others may have different preferences! Alec