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The cells usually have structures that vent at a set overpressure, so the cell should not split. However, it is the volume of gas that can be released and the risk of it forming an explosive mix in the space where the batt is that is the problem. Hence a ventilated space, outside the occupied cabin.

Do some lithium batteries have vents in them then? If they don’t what’s the point of them venting outside. Surely it’s a bit late if the battery case has split and it’s emitting gas. Shouldn’t the BMS have cut it off before that? (Asking for a friend who’s not an expert in this )

Thanks. Although the thing I didn't say was we were considering coming up from Kingswood and wondered if we could turn to avoid reversing back 😀 However we had a change of plan anyway. Thanks for the replies though

Toʻ get too the other side😘

As I've pointed out (similarly tongue-in-cheek) many times... 😉 The problem is that insurers do not look on DIY installations of even potentially safety-critical kit favourably -- and as I'm sure you know, statistically speaking one blown-up boat doesn't prove anything except what *can* go wrong and how severe the consequences are, certainly as bad as or worse than a gas explosion. So insurers (and regulators) are likely to cast a similarly jaundiced eye on DIY LFP installs as they do to DIY LPG installations -- which funnily enough doesn't seem to cause such a big problem with most boaters. The problem is that by definition "professionals" are *supposed* to know what they're doing, and as well as training will at least have their own liability insurance -- with DIY installers there's no way to distinguish between the knowledgeable like @nicknorman and the Dunning-Krueger YouTube-educated hack-it-together-and-hope merchants who post on FB... 😞 It was deliberately targeted at domestic LFP installs because there are many *many* times more of these than propulsion installations -- and most domestic LFP are probably DIY today, but most propulsion LFP are professionally installed. Given that the components are the same, you'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the same advice wouldn't apply to LFP propulsion batteries -- or system, to be more correct... 😉 (at the last moment I did actually suggest removing "Domestic" from the title and adding a note that the advice would also apply to LFP propulsion, but the decision was taken for this version to leave it as it was)

Either go early morning or don’t go at all. The one time I did have to leave him was for 45 minutes. Misting fan was left on directed onto his cooling mat. He’d be in the cabin if we were cruising so very little difference

I am somewhat surprised that this guidance appears to apply only to domestic LFP batteries not propulsion batteries. My domestic battery is LA and my propulsion battery is LFP. This is probably an unusual case, when I did the conversion the 12V domestic system was working fine so I just left it.

There's no way to predict what will be *required* by regulations in the future, but AFAIK everything in the document is "sensible" advice, and deliberately does not specify things like exact building requirements or required fire precautions because what is necessary in a given case is the decision of the installer. The ISO regulations say exactly the same, that there cannot be any "one-size-fits-all" rules because of the wide variation in systems and circumstances, and that it's the responsibility of the ensurer to make sure the system is safe. That's why the Guidance Note is written as advice to the boater to help make sure the installer has got it right and not missed anything important. If the boater is the installer (i.e. DIY) then the question of competence obviously rears its ugly head... 😉 (as it does even for a professional installer, see ABC dayboat...) Installing LFP batteries inside the boat will be fine (now and in future) so long as they're in a box which is sealed from the living space and vented to the outside. Having them just sitting in a corner of the saloon (or under the bed...) is unlikely to be seen as acceptable in future... 😞

The real world evidence, in terms of blown up boats, suggests that amateur installs are safer than professional ones and insurance actuaries should take note. 😁

There's a lot of misunderstanding about how insulation works. Heat always moves from a warm area to a cold area. Insulation creates a resistance to this flow so "good insulation" only reduces the rate of heat transfer compared to "bad insulation", but eventually given enough time and a steady temperature differential the heat will get through and temperature equilibrium will be reached whatever type of insulation you have. Breeze is good but sometimes you get those days where there isn't any and if that coincides with these very hot days it can be unbearable if you're moored in the sun. My mooring is in the sun all day and by 2pm on those days it becomes too much for me and it stays hot until the sun goes down, so I follow your advice and move to find shade. For me that's the only real solution. I did order a portable air conditioner but it turned out to be a scam company (Picadex) who are exploiting the current demand and ripping people off by taking your money and not sending anything. My bank started a Visa dispute and I got my money back, but I'll probably buy one from a reputable supplier in future.

Who else do you think could produce such a note then? Many of the people with the best knowledge about LFP installs are -- well, LFP installers... 😉 (some of who are still doing installs with LFP inside the boat, as I've pointed out -- I know Ed Shiers at Four Counties is concerned about this problem, and what this will mean for the boats in future) None of the people involved have any axe to grind as far as I know, in the sensed of profiting in any way from the advice given. The last part is correct for the time being -- there is obviously not a huge safety problem (though then there was the ABC dayboat...) but apart from safety they *should* be concerned about what might happen regarding insurance in the future. That is why the advice is *not* to install LFP in the living space any more, even though it used to be thought this was OK... 😞

The allure of being moored in the basin in full visibility right next to ice creams and the theatre is a big sales/ advertising pitch. People tend to cluster there and get persuaded to go on a trip. Besides it’s easy to get on and off, on the Avon it’s usually less easy. If the trip boat was only on the Avon CRT won’t get any money from them. I can imagine there’s an agreement anyway for the trip boat to moor there. If as we are told there are back pumps it’s surely not usually a problem.

I believe this document is to give a 'skeleton requirement' for the insurance industry and the BSS, once they become 'requirements' to be able to obtain insurance / licence , it will no doubt be required retrospectively. Hence, builders / DIYers would do well to take this as 'requirements' from now.

You can see the problems the drafting of this by a group of knowledgeable people could cause, when boaters have Lithium systems fitted inside their living space, fitted by "industry experts" (e.g. ones installing and doing LFP system fitouts) and that are still being fitted. As you mentioned with posts on Facebook showing them. I think the emphasis has to be put on “Guidelines” to not cause too much worry to boaters that have had these systems fitted.

There are locks on the Avon and other trip boats that use them on a regular basis. The first one isn't far downstream from the basin.

Can they keep it under 7 foot beam ?

Well, I will wait and see how long it will be, before a paddle boarder goes over the edge!

If you can't it's not far to Kingswood junction with all the space you could want.

For those that wouldn't click through and agree to their digital soul being sold; New safety measures at Pontcysyllte Aqueduct near Llangollen By Heidi Hardman-Welsh Reporter Additional safety measures are being introduced at the Pontcysyllte Aqueduct near Llangollen, a year after concerns were raised over interactions between narrowboats, canoes and other visitors. Last summer, experienced narrowboat skipper David Bramley, from Cholmondeston in Cheshire, described his journey across the UNESCO World Heritage Site as “not a pleasant one” after encountering canoes stopping suddenly and moving unpredictably while he navigated the 17-tonne boat across the aqueduct. David, who documents his canal journeys online as ‘Boating David’, said the stop-start nature of canoe traffic and congestion at either end of the aqueduct created unnecessary risks. Sharing his thoughts to social media platform 'X', he said: "All in all the passage over Pontcysyllte Aqueduct was not a pleasant one this time. "I had [a] boat right up behind me 'pushing' me on while trying to see canoes which were darting from side to side, in and out of view. "I'm concerned a less attentive or experienced skipper might cause an incident in the future." Referencing the stop-start of canoes, often for paddlers to capture the scenery and take photos, he added: "It's much easier for them to brake than me on a 17 ton narrowboat." At the time, Glandŵr Cymru, the Canal & River Trust in Wales, said it was introducing new signage, updating safety guidance and developing longer-term traffic management measures to improve safety during busy periods. Now, providing an update a year later, the Trust says further measures have been introduced, including additional staff stationed at the aqueduct during busy periods. A spokesperson for Glandŵr Cymru said: “We have been working to introduce a number of measures to improve safety for everyone using the aqueduct. "New signage has been installed and, this summer, staff are being stationed at both ends of the aqueduct during busy periods to help coordinate boat movements, manage traffic flows and reduce congestion. “To further improve safety, we have applied for planning permission to install a chicane barrier to encourage cyclists to slow down, as well as additional CCTV cameras to support site management. “We are grateful to the operators, businesses, boaters and partner organisations who have helped deliver these improvements. Together, we remain committed to ensuring visitors can safely enjoy this unique and special place on our canal network.” The Pontcysyllte Aqueduct, near Llangollen, is the highest navigable aqueduct in Britain and attracts thousands of visitors each year, including walkers, cyclists, paddlers and boaters. During the summer months, the mix of different users can lead to congestion, particularly at peak times. The Trust said the new measures are designed to improve coordination between different canal users while helping to keep traffic moving safely across one of Wales’ most popular visitor attractions.

True, but they have recovered all the boats they’ve sunk to date

Indeed, and another problem with retirement is that you no longer get any days off... 🤣😂

Thank you