alan_fincher Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's a Babcock? They made cranes. And boilers There is a recent narrow boat builder called Terry Babcock, nut I think this is too old to be one of his. And I imagine they think it's a Bantcock when the say Babcock. Although it doesn't look what I think a Bantock looks like... I'm not a BCN boat historian, but is a build date of 1932 consistent with it being any type of Bantock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tee Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's a Babcock? Perhaps they mean its a 'Bobbitt', it has been cut back to 65'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's an authentic narrowboat sound?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's the sound an authentic narrowboat makes, silly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billS Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's an authentic narrowboat sound?? It's, like, the opposite of the sound that a widebeam makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Pearl is a unique historical boat Doesn't seem to be any boat of that name in the boat listing at 65ft apart from a hire boat licensed on the Thames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I'm not a BCN boat historian, but is a build date of 1932 consistent with it being any type of Bantock? The last boat to be B.C.N. gauged under the owner of Thomas Bantock was ALERT on 09 September 1925, but this was a re-gauge with a much older gauge number also being quoted on the table. The last boat to be B.C.N. gauged under the owner of Thomas Bantock without any previous gauge number being referred to was 83 on 12 December 1923. Thomas Bantock was also an agent to the Great Western Railway Co., with several boats built by him being gauged under the name of the latter. The last boat to be B.C.N. gauged under the owner of the Great Western Railway Co. was FISHGUARD on 29 May 1928, with no previous gauge number listed and this being a cabin iron boat. Many enthusiasts and some researchers claim that Thomas Bantock built boats for other carriers, and that there were at least three versions of construction. Although there is a strong possibility that this is correct I have seen no evidence, and the boat in question (PEARL) could fall into this category. There were only 40 boats B.C.N. gauged in 1932 (excluding 125 minor alterations), although 9 of these do have an older B.C.N. gauge number quoted on their relevant table. Only three of these 40 boats were iron hulled, F.M.C. Ltd. motor ACACIA - L.M.S.R. horse boat CZAR - B.C.N. Co. maintenance boat 90. ACACIA was new but both of the other boats were previously B.C.N. gauged in 1894 and 1885 respectively. PEARL (for sale on Apollo Duck website) has more questions than answers I think Edited June 3, 2015 by pete harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's an authentic narrowboat sound?? It's that noise you get when there's too much boat and not enough cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloudinspector Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/image.phtml?id=417188ℑ=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Each to their own, but I never have understood the desire to cram a quart into a pint pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/image.phtml?id=417188ℑ=3 If anyone sees this boat, tell them to turn their Nicholsons the right way up. Spotted them going up Braunston recently, which is not the way to Cheshire when you moor in Loughborough.!! Lovely boat, and the price is slowly coming down to something believable now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 It was in Crick for the show weekend moored on the tow path. Lots of money I my opinion. Good looking boat,also, in my opinion. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I can't find details of the original pricing of Mecca, but seem to recall £80K. That would have put me off viewing, frankly. As Matty says, shaving it down to £75K starts to bring it closer to reality but it still seems top end. That said, I have not viewed it - maybe it is particularly special if you do? The HB3 engine might be overkill, I think, though manageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I remember Mecca and sister craft Manchuria as rather battered workboats on the Southern Stratford during the National Trust days.It was rumoured at the time that they had been acquired from BW in somewhat dodgy circumstances, but that BW staff were happy to overlook the issue as long as they never appeared back on BW waters. When the NT handed the canal back to BW, both boats were also returned, and BW sold them off soon afterwards for conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbo Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Photographs of Mecca mid 1970's somewhere north of Braunston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Photographs of Mecca mid 1970's somewhere north of Braunston Fascinating - thanks for posting. It does kind of put into perspective asking prices of £70k to £80k once such boats are converted, doesn't it? (I do realise quite a bit of extra money has been spent on them by then, though!....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Also puts into perspective how little of the current MECCA is actually 'historic'. (And yes I appreciate the same applies to REGINALD too!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I remember Mecca and sister craft Manchuria as rather battered workboats on the Southern Stratford during the National Trust days. It was rumoured at the time that they had been acquired from BW in somewhat dodgy circumstances, but that BW staff were happy to overlook the issue as long as they never appeared back on BW waters. When the NT handed the canal back to BW, both boats were also returned, and BW sold them off soon afterwards for conversion. These two along with Dory and one other (I think M something) were used as mud boats during the restoration of the Peak Forest Canal 1972-4. After the re-opening all four drifted about on the canal, never tied up , always in the way. In those days the last use of old boats before scrapping was as mud hoppers . One week-end , I would say 1976 or so , a gang of canal enthusiasts collected the boats and took them to the Stratford canal for further mud boat use. I'm not sure but I think all four have metamorphosed into the likes of Mecca. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Also puts into perspective how little of the current MECCA is actually 'historic'. (And yes I appreciate the same applies to REGINALD too!) This is a problem even with boats that appear to be "original". In our case I doubt "Barnet" now retains at the best 50% of "original" steelwork as delivered from Harland & Wollf, with a complete new bottom, footings, counter and cabin all now dating post 1993, its hardly "original" other than the set of parts have remained all together under the same name! http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=407043 Many boats masquerading now in original liveries are far removed from what they were, there are very few exceptions, in the GU boats "Bellatrix" and "Buckden" probably vie for the most original, in the Josher field I am not sure if any original cabins remain apart from the very late built boats. In the wooden boat side of things boats such as "Raymond" and "Saturn" are just replicas, whilst Gifford" is so many times rebuilt it is far removed from its roots. Some of the oldest craft about probably retail only major structural components such as keelsons, stern posts and stem posts, but even the latter has been changed on some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) This is a problem even with boats that appear to be "original". In our case I doubt "Barnet" now retains at the best 50% of "original" steelwork as delivered from Harland & Wollf, with a complete new bottom, footings, counter and cabin all now dating post 1993, its hardly "original" other than the set of parts have remained all together under the same name! http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=407043 Many boats masquerading now in original liveries are far removed from what they were, there are very few exceptions, in the GU boats "Bellatrix" and "Buckden" probably vie for the most original, in the Josher field I am not sure if any original cabins remain apart from the very late built boats. In the wooden boat side of things boats such as "Raymond" and "Saturn" are just replicas, whilst Gifford" is so many times rebuilt it is far removed from its roots. Some of the oldest craft about probably retail only major structural components such as keelsons, stern posts and stem posts, but even the latter has been changed on some. How original is Rose & Joe Skinner's Friendship, please? I actually don't really have an issue with the originality of preserved working boats as long as the are within the "spirit" of what the boat originally was. If we want them to be original surely they would all be in museums or sunk by now? If you look at steam locos, also part of a working transport system, by the time they finished their working lives I would hazard a guess that none of them were as built having had many boiler, frame, tender changes etc. Even the original "Rocket" as preserved is not as built. Again, it is good to see replica steam loco's to give us a flavour of our transport history. People tend to accept the alterations to steam loco's i.e. air brakes, updated signal equipment and so forth, so why the perceived issue of originality with preserved narrowboats? Edited June 5, 2015 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithbo Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Here is a photograph of Manchuria taken on the same day as Mecca a little further along the same stretch of canal mid 1970's north of Branston. Looking somewhat different than today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Great photos Keithbo. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) (snipped) If we want them to be original surely they would all be in museums or sunk by now?(snipped) One could say they'd be in museums AND sunk by now, which some are. But wood out of water disintegrates rapidly. I think the perceived issue with originality is largely just that. If something wears out and is replaced with same in style of shape, then it will appear as originally built. What does wrankle with some is the 'claims' made by some when even the original shape of something has changed - RAYMOND springs to mind, but I think SATURN looks the dogs doo dahs. That is what a Shroppie flyboat looked like. (Not that old to actually qualify that, but I hope you get my drift). Edited June 5, 2015 by Derek R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 How original is Rose & Joe Skinner's Friendship, please? The answer Ray is very original. We were all horrified at the thought of our old friends boat being cut up at the time but it has proved it was the best thing to do. Apart from preservation and minor re decoration the boat is as the Skinners left it. Today you can still examine a Sephtons bow shape, original and as it worked and get the true feel of what original boating was like. It is such a shame that the museum didn't do this with other craft,for instance Pete Dodd's "Merope" springs to mind, in working order when it arrived , look at it now. The Dutch have a boat museum in Rotterdam, where many craft are on the hard and some inside and others undercover, far better than for instance at Gloucester where mildewed hulls bake slowly in the summer sun. This was taken in 1986, it has grown since then: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie57 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 These two along with Dory and one other (I think M something) were used as mud boats during the restoration of the Peak Forest Canal 1972-4. After the re-opening all four drifted about on the canal, never tied up , always in the way. In those days the last use of old boats before scrapping was as mud hoppers . One week-end , I would say 1976 or so , a gang of canal enthusiasts collected the boats and took them to the Stratford canal for further mud boat use. I'm not sure but I think all four have metamorphosed into the likes of Mecca. Bill I seem to recall seeing the "Madeley" going past our house on the back of a lorry, going either to or from the bottom of Marple locks. They also had the "Jackal", cut off at the back end, as a pusher tug - and possibly the "Bream" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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