Beta 43 with 5000 hrs

[Naartjie - Duck Hatch]

I'm looking to purchase an NB with 5000 hrs on the engine (Beta 43)

From what I can make out the NB appears to be well maintained, regularly services etc

I do realize that this is a bit of " It depends" type questions . But am I correct in assuming that an engine with 5000 hrs is way past its prime and heading towards old age (a bit like me ). 

Also is rebuilding an option & what is a ball park cost on that.

 

 

 

 

.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Naartjie

[LadyG]

5000 hours on this engine is nicely run in as long as its been looked after, ie an oil change every year, or every 250 hours. They will also take some abuse. You won't need a rebuild.

Did you mean 50,000 hours?

If you are really worried you can have the oil tested, but if everthing else looks good it's probsbly not worth it.

If you are risk averse you can get a surveyor to offer an opinion.

A narrowboat is subject to depreciation over the years due to steel construction  so to my mind the state of hull and its past maintenance is important: 

Is it bitumen blacked every two years or was it two pack epoxied from new. Are the anodes in good condition?

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, Naartjie said:

I'm looking to purchase an NB with 5000 hrs on the engine (Beta 43)

From what I can make out the NB appears to be well maintained, regularly services etc

I do realize that this is a bit of " It depends" type questions . But am I correct in assuming that an engine with 5000 hrs is way past its prime and heading towards old age (a bit like me ). 

Also is rebuilding an option & what is a ball park cost on that.

 

If it starts easily from cold. with minimal exhaust smoke that then clears, and sounds OK, with good oil pressure when hot (say 45PSI +)  then it is fine. As a double check, take the oil filler cap off while it is running and see how much smoke & fumes are expelled. A bit is OK, but much more than that indicates engine wear. Try it on your car to get an idea of what is acceptable.

[DandV]

I asked a principle of a substantial hire boat company with a fleet of beta powered craft what their experience of engine life was.

A company that holds onto to its fleet.

They replied that in the coming winter they were planning on changing out a 14000 hour beta 38 and a 18000 hr beta 43. He said they have had better from both engines. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by DandV

[nicknorman]

Our Beta 43 has done about 4,000 hrs, still behaves as new. No smoke and no oil consumption, starts instantly even without using the glow plugs.

[robtheplod]

Ours has about 2000 on the fitted dial, god knows how much from the main panel before it 'went dark'..... still purrs and keeps its oil...  its an ex shareboat so no doubt it will have done many hours, but always looked after.. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by robtheplod

[Clanky]

different engine, mine was an isuzu but it had done over 10000 hours, serviced every 250 hours and ran lovely, no smoke, didn't use any oil and started no problem. As with any engine check the service history.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Clanky
typo

[Stroudwater1]

2 hours ago, Clanky said:

different engine, mine was an isuzu but it had done over 10000 hours, serviced every 250 hours and ran lovely, no smoke, didn't use any oil and started no problem. As with any engine check the service history.

That’s often difficult though as a large number of boaters do their own servicing especially oil changes etc. I just keep my receipts for the oil I buy and hopefully that will tally (I’ve no oil filter) 

[pearley]

My previous narrowboat had a B43 that had over 6000 hours when I sold it. Started without heat, didn't smoke, didn't use any oil and oil on the dipstick always looked clean.

 

I kept a full record of all maintenance done, whether by me or boatyards which I left on board. Unfortunately when it changed hands again a year later the record had gone.

[dogless]

We had a Beta BV 1903 with 3,500 hours recorded when we bought the boat in 2004 at 11 years old.

 

By January 2018 we had a new Beta 43 fitted as the old engine, which by then had over 17,000 hours, had become smokey and needed to be stripped down and reconditioned.

 

Finding someone to strip down the engine and do whatever work was needed would have taken many weeks (a friends took three months to be completed) and at a cost which would be impossible to accurately estimate (the friend's ultimately cost £3,400)  depending what was found.

 

Once done  several months and who knows what cost later, we'd still have an old but reconditioned engine.

 

We elected to have a new Beta 43 fitted which cost around £7,000 fitted, and took two days.

 

The engine now has over 4,000 hours and is performing as new.

 

Rog

Edited October 24, 2023 by dogless

[Phoenix_V]

43 minutes ago, dogless said:

We had a Beta BV 1903 with 3,500 hours recorded when we bought the boat in 2004 at 11 years old.

 

By January 2018 we had a new Beta 43 fitted as the old engine, which by then had over 17,000 hours, had become smokey and needed to be stripped down and reconditioned.

 

Finding someone to strip down the engine and do whatever work was needed would have taken many weeks (a friends took three months to be completed) and at a cost which would be impossible to accurately estimate (the friend's ultimately cost £3,400)  depending what was found.

 

Once done  several months and who knows what cost later, we'd still have an old but reconditioned engine.

 

We elected to have a new Beta 43 fitted which cost around £7,000 fitted, and took two days.

 

The engine now has over 4,000 hours and is performing as new.

 

Rog

did you change the gearbox at the same time or was that ok?

[dogless]

Changed the gear box to a PRM 150 .

 

It previously had a mechanical Hurth gear box.

 

Rog

Edited October 24, 2023 by dogless

[dmr]

I believe that a heavy duty diesel would normally get an overhaul (shells and cylinder bores etc) at between 12,000 and 16,000 hours though a few will make it to 20. So at 5,000 hours that engine should have a lot of life left as long as it has been looked after.

[Tracy D'arth]

These are plant engines and are designed to do high hours, many at tick over, be thrashed and abused. In a canal boat 5000 hours is nothing providing it has had some oil changes. If there is minimal crankcase breathing from the oil filler cap and steady hot oil pressure over 30psi I would not be concerned.

[Sea Dog]

I suspect there are quite a few brand new canalboat engine choices I'd prefer a well cared for 5000 hour Beta 43 to! 

[Machpoint005]

Same idea as with a used car. One with a high mileage, but has been properly serviced, is a better proposition than one with half the miles which has been neglected. 

 

 

Having had personal (but anecdotal!) experience of Vetus, BMC, Nanni and Beta (43) I'd go for Beta every time.

 

Its base engine is a Kubota as used in small tractors, and pretty well unbreakable.

 

 

[GUMPY]

20 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Same idea as with a used car. One with a high mileage, but has been properly serviced, is a better proposition than one with half the miles which has been neglected. 

 

 

Having had personal (but anecdotal!) experience of Vetus, BMC, Nanni and Beta (43) I'd go for Beta every time.

 

Its base engine is a Kubota as used in small tractors, and pretty well unbreakable.

 

 

Nanni use the same base engines however Beta's customer service  is exemplary.

[Machpoint005]

Yes, the Nanni would be a close second, but the OP hasn't found one of those!

 

 

 

 

[GUMPY]

14 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Yes, the Nanni would be a close second, but the OP hasn't found one of those!

 

 

 

 

You have obviously never dealt with the importers 🤔

They may have improved since I did 20 years ago

[Bobbybass]

My Beta 43 had 15,000 hours when I sold the boat. 

Great compression...never used the glow plugs even on frozen mornings. 

No smoke...started on second turn.

Oil/ filter  changes every 250 hours with Wilko ( the late Wilko 😔 ) Classic motor oil.

[cuthound]

On 24/10/2023 at 08:29, robtheplod said:

Ours has about 2000 on the fitted dial, god knows how much from the main panel before it 'went dark'..... still purrs and keeps its oil...  its an ex shareboat so no doubt it will have done many hours, but always looked after.. 

 

Over the 22 years that I had a share in two shareboats (1992-2001 and 2002-2013) they both averaged 1,100 hours per year.

 

The first boat had its Mitsubishi engine changed at 8,000 hours and the second its Turkish built BMC 1.8 at 13,500 hours.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by cuthound
1,100 not 11,000 hours.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Over the 22 years that I had a share in two shareboats (1992-2001 and 2002-2013) they both averaged 11,000 hours per year.

 

The first boat had its Mitsubishi engine changed at 8,000 hours and the second its Turkish built BMC 1.8 at 13,500 hours.

 

11,000 hrs per year is a pretty good average, considering it is over 30 hrs per day!

[cuthound]

23 hours ago, dmr said:

I believe that a heavy duty diesel would normally get an overhaul (shells and cylinder bores etc) at between 12,000 and 16,000 hours though a few will make it to 20. So at 5,000 hours that engine should have a lot of life left as long as it has been looked after.

 

On the rare occasions that a BT standby generator racked up high hours, it would be overhauled at 18,000 hours

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

11,000 hrs per year is a pretty good average, considering it is over 30 hrs per day!

 

Two many naughts caused by phat phingers. It should of course have been 1,100 hours per annum. Now corrected.

 

[davem399]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Over the 22 years that I had a share in two shareboats (1992-2001 and 2002-2013) they both averaged 11,000 hours per year.

 

The first boat had its Mitsubishi engine changed at 8,000 hours and the second its Turkish built BMC 1.8 at 13,500 hours.

 

Extra zero on your figures Mr Hound!  There’s only 8,760 hours in a year!  

 

The Beta 43 which replaced the BMC referenced above, was fitted in 2014 and is just approaching 10,000 hours.  It’s running well, and has been regularly serviced.

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, davem399 said:

Extra zero on your figures Mr Hound!  There’s only 8,760 hours in a year!  

 

The Beta 43 which replaced the BMC referenced above, was fitted in 2014 and is just approaching 10,000 hours.  It’s running well, and has been regularly serviced.

 

I know, corrected now. 

 

Glad to hear the replacement engine is doing well. I got involved in sorting out its early overheating problems, but never got to use it in anger.