nicknorman

you didn’t intimate what speed you go at nor did I elude to it. This is because the actual speed you go at is irrelevant. In your opinion the speed you go at (which probably varies according to your mood) is the speed. The right speed. And any other speed is wrong. Or at least, any other speed will not be accommodated because it differs from your speed. You have presented various scenarios where on a narrow shallow canal, overtaking might be difficult. Fair enough. But if you are extending that to making out that overtaking on the tidal Trent is problematic, then you lose all credibility.

Because the CRT rules (let’s not argue about the enforceability of them) says “no breaking wash” and this is for a good reason, breaking wash erodes the banks and can harm wildlife. It is a feature of the system, in the same way that cycling up hill or into wind is, that’s just the way things are and no point resenting it. But there is a big difference between a feature of the system, Vs the whim of an individual and the consequence of that whim being forced on other people. Anyway, we are going round in circles. The bottom line as I see it is that if someone comes up behind us (which happens fairly often because we are deep drafted) I will facilitate their overtake as soon as I can. I would expect the same in return. Let everyone go at whatever speed they want to is my motto. And the same applies in the car, I tend to drive quite fast along the rural Scottish roads that I frequent, but if someone comes up behind I’ll try to facilitate their overtake as best I can. Yours seems to be that you’re going at the speed you want to go at and if anyone wants to go faster, well tough. Just relax and go at my speed. I’m in front so get over it. It’s pretty clear to me which one of us is the more considerate, but perhaps your brain works in a different way to mine and you really think you are the better person. Who knows!

You do seem to be applying a scattergun approach to try to justify your attitude. Nobody mentioned 4mph, nobody mentioned creating a breaking wash, so why are you suddenly talking about it as a justification to disallow people to overtake? I would of course agree that overtaking on a boat is not the same as overtaking in a car, but I would put this into the category of “stating the bleedin obvious”

When you are several hundred yards behind, you are going to slow them down a very small amount, not detectable. If you are1/2 boat length behind then it might be noticeable. I realise that if everyone held identical views and values to you then no doubt your world would be a better place. But the thing is, in fact people have a wide range of views and values and the world is better when people accept that and are considerate towards those diverse views and values.

Obviously if we have caught them up from far behind, they are going more slowly than us. How much slower can be assessed by the rate of closure. The effect you mention is going to slow them, but only by a very small amount. Something like a trough aqueduct is of course going to make the effect more significant, but most of us spend less than 0.1% of our time on such aqueducts so you point is an exception not normality. The obvious indications of a boat ahead at or close to tickover are virtually no sign of prop wash and virtually no discernible ripples from the bow. But surely you know this? If we are only very slowly catching them up, eg we are doing 3.5mph and they are doing 3.4 mph, then I am not fussed about overtaking and we will reduce from say 1300rpm to 1200 rpm, no big deal. It is the people who you come up behind rapidly with their boats barely making a ripple from the bow or the prop, that are the issue. Our boat does about 2 to 2.5 mph at tickover (depending on depth etc) and any slower, we have to go into neutral. I can’t help feeling that if you put more effort into thinking about how to considerately let others pass you, and less effort into thinking up reasons why they shouldn’t, the world would be a better place.

All true. But surely if you like to travel at tickover, being slowed down for a minute as a boat overtakes you doesn’t really matter. If it did matter to you, surely you would be going at a normal speed in the first place?

Yes I think you are probably right. It is a bit sad that people don't observe and learn, but it is part of the modern world where people don't really comprehend what is going on around them. Head full of the Facebook and Instragram probably. What should happen is: Get to a flight of locks, cautiously open a paddle. Nothing much happens (Atherstone) so next lock, be less cautious until by the 4th lock you are just whacking the paddles up with nothing much happening. Or Trent&Mersey, cautiously open a paddle - wow, there is a lot of forward suction, continue to be cautious.

I think more generally it’s a pair of lights that flash alternately. If they could speak one would be saying “wig” and the other “wag”. You get amber ones at taxiway holding points at airports. You don’t pass the wig wags to enter the runway when they are wigwagging.

Anyway, I will just mention that whilst we seemed to go through a phase of getting stuck behind ludicrously slow boaters a few years ago, recently it hasn't been much of a problem. People do generally either cruise at a reasonable speed or allow others to pass, although sometimes we have to ask. There are only a tiny minority of selfish people who see no problem in forcing others to go at their pace, although they do seem to be congregating on here! We haven't done it once in 4000 hrs. Could be because we don't have one!

It is not about rushing, it is about going along at a normal pace and not seeing virtue in going as slow as possible and holding up people as much as possible. Yes there can of course be unforseen events such as trees down and other stoppages, but these are not within the power of boaters. Holding people up unnecessarily, and causing frustration, is within the power of other boaters and I just think it is a shame that some people relish wielding that power to control how other people conduct themselves. As I said, I don't want to force other people to go faster than they want, I just don't want them to force me to go slower when they could let me pass. As to your final sentence, well thank you for your opinion on whether or not the canals are suitable for me. That is a phenomenal display of arrogance and it is easy to see why you think it quite OK to force other people to go along at your pace.

I just noticed there is a boat name on your profile now. Does this mean you have got your new boat? Of course with a name like that, presumably you are one of the dawdlers!!😅

Yes the good old PID control loop. Pretty hard to do without electronics.

Not just bridge holes, but as you know when the first boats pass on a shallow canal, there is a tendancy for the bows to end up pointing to the left unless the steerer is expecting it and compensates accordingly (plenty don't!). If there is a second boat following close behind they become a likely target for a collision!

You seem to be at great pains to make the case that overtaking is somehow difficult and rarely practical. I wonder why? Of course there are plenty of stretches of windy narrow and shallow canal where overtaking isn’t really on, but equally plenty of stretches where it is. No-one expects to overtake on blind corners etc but I think it is reasonable to expect co-operation from a slow boat in front when circumstances permit.

Yours is the attitude of the self-righteous who are adamant that they are going at the CORRECT speed and anyone wanting to go at a different speed is to be despised. However there are plenty of days when there are no locks, or locks whose transit time is predictable and short. There can be many miles between locks and whilst in fact it’s highly unlikely that one can actually manage 4 mph (in our boat, anyway) there is still a big difference between 3mph and 2 mph in terms of a day’s cruising to a planned destination. But anyway, why be the arse who likes to hold other people up and cause them frustration? I just don’t get it. But then again, the same sort of people who “know their rights” and will happily explore the full extent of 8 to 8 noisy frame genny running without the tiniest pang of guilt as they spoil an otherwise peaceful rural visitor mooring for everyone else. Oh and just on the traffic lights thing, whilst I don’t drive in an area with many traffic lights, I have noticed that some folk severely dawdle away from the lights, leaving a huge gap and barely reach 30mph in the first 1/4 mile. Which means that those further back in the queue don’t get over on the green when they otherwise would have done. General traffic congestion increased, more frustration, more fuel wasted etc but of course the chap in front who can’t find the accelerator is oblivious to all that and even it he wasn’t, it’s doubtful he would care at all. Traffic light departures, just like canal cruising speeds, are best at a happy medium, not too fast and not too slow, going with the general flow of other people.