Rank these boat builders!

[Robbo]

25 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

Thanks @Robbo and @TheBiscuits for the breakdown of things to look for, really helpful. It's interesting that the builder doesn't feature because on this thread everyone seemed adamant that the manufacturer of the boat is of utmost importance.

If there is a particular boat you like it probably worth researching on the Make too see what type of builder they were like too see if it was cheap n cheerful or expensive n quality, but you should be able to see that by looking at hull with the welding, panel straightness, etc.   To me the better boats tend to be the prettier boats as well, cheaper ones tended to be more boxy.    Just remember one thing, look at as many boats as you can as this will give you whats out their for your budget and what you do like and don't like.

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Robbo said:

To me the better boats tend to be the prettier boats as well, cheaper ones tended to be more boxy. 

 

This is very true. Lots of posters here advising check build quality, flat panels, strong welds etc but if you buy a sturdily built boat that looks like a skip, you may come to regret it once you get your 'eye in' for an elegantly designed shell. You need to feel a touch of pride when you come back to your boat and first catch sight of it. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is very true. Lots of posters here advising check build quality, flat panels, strong welds etc but if you buy a sturdily built boat that looks like a skip, you may come to regret it once you get your 'eye in' for an elegantly designed shell. You need to feel a touch of pride when you come back to your boat and first catch sight of it. 

Surely they are all a bit "skiplike", it's the nature of the beast.

 

Ok, you can have a  double curved bow, and a gently up sweeping cabin stern and a fancy paint job with posh button fenders fore and aft, and a tug deck, but a narrowboat ain't ever gonna have nice lines like a proper boat. 

 

Don’t paint it yellow WotEver you do. 

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Excellent boats. Noted for their vertical candy-twisted handrails at the front, on sides of the cabin.

Our shell is Gary Gorton, but the fit out was Blackwater Meadow Marina, fairly bland, but very functional. No twisted stuff

 

[roland elsdon]

15 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

That is a very unfair, and probably, unintentionaly negative observation of the character and ability of working Boat families. I do not know how far back your experience of boating goes, but my experience extends beyond fifty years when there were still a lot of working boats on the Canals. Most of those I knew on the Grand Union had not received any formal eductaion and few could read or write, but for the most part I found them to be intelligent and able, and far more capable of understanding life than many modern, so called, literate recreational boaters. I feel, respectfully, that your comment should be either modified or deleted.

Actually look at what i wrote and believe me i thought about it carefully out of respect.

semi literate means has problems with reading and writing.

frequently down not to lack of intelligence or willingness but down to lack of or poor education. Both those featured heavily on the canals right through and were recognised and attempts were made to deal with them (floating school at bulls bridge etc).

 

so i am not saying that boat families were stupid simple or anything of the kind, merely poorly educated and probably not through choice, and that if they without education, television, smartphone, certificate courses et al could manage a 70 ft boat then with all the information available today so can the op.

 

in 1980 with no info i bought my first boat fired it up on the cranfleet cut and boated via soar and thames to london. I dont remember it involved much use of my education, just commonsense and the ability to learn. No internet to peruse no mobile phone... bit like the working boaters then.

So no I wont delete it its fact.

 

15 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

That is a very unfair, and probably, unintentionaly negative observation of the character and ability of working Boat families. I do not know how far back your experience of boating goes, but my experience extends beyond fifty years when there were still a lot of working boats on the Canals. Most of those I knew on the Grand Union had not received any formal eductaion and few could read or write, but for the most part I found them to be intelligent and able, and far more capable of understanding life than many modern, so called, literate recreational boaters. I feel, respectfully, that your comment should be either modified or deleted.

Actually look at what i wrote and believe me i thought about it carefully out of respect.

semi literate means has problems with reading and writing.

frequently down not to lack of intelligence or willingness but down to lack of or poor education. Both those featured heavily on the canals right through and were recognised and attempts were made to deal with them (floating school at bulls bridge etc).

 

so i am not saying that boat families were stupid simple or anything of the kind, merely poorly educated and probably not through choice, and that if they without education, television, smartphone, certificate courses et al could manage a 70 ft boat then with all the information available today so can the op.

 

in 1980 with no info i bought my first boat fired it up on the cranfleet cut and boated via soar and thames to london. I dont remember it involved much use of my education, just commonsense and the ability to learn. No internet to peruse no mobile phone... bit like the working boaters then.

So no I wont delete it its fact.

 

[Ray T]

OP get one of these, answer to all your questions.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Ray T

[rusty69]

That's a boat and a half! 

[Mad Harold]

16 hours ago, Stewart Kirby said:

Oh, I have the answer, buy two 35ft boats and have your working spaces separate, only one of them needs an engine (a boat with no engine that you tow is called a butty). When you moor, not park, you can put them side by side (breast up) so you only need a 35 ft space to moor. If you have no experience of handling a narrowboat I suggest you take a boat handling course, expect to cock up regularly in the beginning and then when you are really confident expect to cock up when there are lots of people watching you. Do not underestimate the difficulty of handling a full size boat in any conditions, it’s not like driving a car.

On the Peak Forest Canal,saw a boat coming towards me with three or four large spotlights on and a sign saying "Towing".Painted purple it was perhaps 60ft,it was towing at a guess a 30 footer also painted purple,which was also towing a rowing boat.The crew was a very cheerful couple,and when I cheekily asked how they reversed,the bloke shouted "we don't"

So perhaps two boats are not as daft as it initially sounds.

[WotEver]

14 hours ago, David Mack said:

at the price level you are looking, then current condition and how well a boat has been looked after is far more important than the name of the builder.

Which is why I ticked every name in the poll. A well-maintained boat with a quality fit out is what’s important. At the OP’s price point he’s unlikely to find that in a ‘name’ shell. 

[mark99]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is very true. Lots of posters here advising check build quality, flat panels, strong welds etc but if you buy a sturdily built boat that looks like a skip, you may come to regret it once you get your 'eye in' for an elegantly designed shell. You need to feel a touch of pride when you come back to your boat and first catch sight of it. 

Are you still looking then?

 

[JamesFrance]

17 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

. I guess I'm going to have to learn how to handle her quickly! Perhaps I can add some bow and stern thrusters to help me out? ?

 

All that said, we are looking out for especially nice boats 57-65', but it's pretty helpful to be able to narrow our search down with that criterion.

 

Unless you are expecting to go into marinas you should not have any need for these on the system for a full length boat, which is what the narrow canals were designed for.

 

I too think that prices for used 70ft boats don't reflect the original extra cost compared to something around 57ft, which most people seem to think is ideal so in greater demand.

[alan_fincher]

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

From the photo of the bedroom I can't see why you couldn't fit either a full door or an emergency exit hatch through to the engine room - although it does depend what is on the other side.  As a minimum all you need is an opening with an area of 0.18 m2  able to accommodate a 380mm diameter circle. Or a "break glass" hammer and a label next to the window would probably do as well.

 

The BSS requirements for private boats are at https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf and the relevant section is this:

 

Yes, I also looked at this again, because I couldn't understand how the boat in question has a BSS certificate.

I think the answer must be that the "A" in the box in the top right hand corner means "Advisory", though I couldn't see that confirmed by any Key in the check list.  However as most items are instead marked "R", my guess is that means "Requirement", (i.e Mandatory), whereas "A" means "advisory", (i.e. Non Mandatory).

So I think the BSS inspector should have issued an advisory notice perhaps, but not failed it.

At this point it becomes your choice whether to sleep in a cabin that there might be no escape from if a fire blocked your path.  As david rightly sais, owners of many "historic" craft face this risk, unless there is an exit from the bed hole to the engine room.  Typically FMC boats had that where as GUCCCo boats did not.  Ours, (GUCCCo), don't, and it is not a situation I'm entirely comfortable with, even though they have been like it since 1936.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

I think the answer must be that the "A" in the box in the top right hand corner means "Advisory"

Yes, it’s advisory. The BSS doesn’t really care that much if you burn to death due to being unable to escape although of course they’d prefer it if you didn’t. 

[TheBiscuits]

28 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yes, it’s advisory. The BSS doesn’t really care that much if you burn to death due to being unable to escape although of course they’d prefer it if you didn’t. 

As long as you don't pollute the waterway or affect the boat next to you while failing to escape.

 

Exactly in line with the stated aims of the BSS.

[David Mack]

46 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yes, it’s advisory. The BSS doesn’t really care that much if you burn to death due to being unable to escape although of course they’d prefer it if you didn’t. 

 

The recent photos of Ariel show how devastating a back cabin fire can be. Fortunately there was nobody on board at the time,  but Aerial did have a door through. 

) 

[Mike Todd]

21 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Dont listen to nonsense about 70 foot boats being hard to handle. The canals were designed to be operated by semi literate uneducated people for..... 70 ft boats on at least the narrow system

 

i have owned  a 45 ft boat . 3  71.6 foot boats, and one 55 ft boat. The 45 foot ( colecraft) was by far the worst to boat.

 

But those 'illiterate' people were thoroughly trained by a previous generation who knew what they were talking about and not just a short video and a cardboard model.

 

The great thing about experience is that you learn that there is never just one rule fits all situations and your next situation will be entirely different from all the ones you have seen so far, even over 50 years!

[David Schweizer]

7 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Actually look at what i wrote and believe me i thought about it carefully out of respect.

semi literate means has problems with reading and writing.

frequently down not to lack of intelligence or willingness but down to lack of or poor education. Both those featured heavily on the canals right through and were recognised and attempts were made to deal with them (floating school at bulls bridge etc).

 

so i am not saying that boat families were stupid simple or anything of the kind, merely poorly educated and probably not through choice, and that if they without education, television, smartphone, certificate courses et al could manage a 70 ft boat then with all the information available today so can the op.

 

in 1980 with no info i bought my first boat fired it up on the cranfleet cut and boated via soar and thames to london. I dont remember it involved much use of my education, just commonsense and the ability to learn. No internet to peruse no mobile phone... bit like the working boaters then.

So no I wont delete it its fact.

 

I fully accept that it was not your intention to suggest that working boat people had a lack of intelligence, but in today's context, to describe someone as illiterate and uneducated would imply that they are not very bright, which is how I read it, hence my response.

 

I think we probably would agree that despite their lack of formal education working boat people were well educated in the operation of a boat, and could teach us quite a lot. in fact all my early boating was under the supervision of a former working boatmamn.

Edited July 25, 2018 by David Schweizer

[Ray T]

To echo what David has said above. Every week I visit an ex Barlow's boat captain who comes from five generations of boaters. Whilst he may seem "uneducated" by today's terminology he is educated in the skills of life, far more than some today. In their inability to read, through lack of opportunity, they developed prodigious memories as books, signposts  etc were of no use to them. I can show him a picture of a lock on the GU, Oxford and Coventry canals, not only can he tell me where it is but 9 times out of 10 its number.  If I tell him the name of a ex working motor he will give me its number.

 

He once said "I may not be able to read, but I can count money."

[Tonka]

Here is a70ft in you price range http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=575501 and the builder is on the preferred side as it is a Mike Heywood. Have you looked at it

[WotEver]

54 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Here is a70ft in you price range http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=575501 and the builder is on the preferred side as it is a Mike Heywood. 

It’s certainly priced to sell. A bit tired, but what would you expect for sub £30k?

[roland elsdon]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

I fully accept that it was not your intention to suggest that working boat people had a lack of intelligence, but in today's context, to describe someone as illiterate and uneducated would imply that they are not very bright, which is how I read it, hence my response.

 

I think we probably would agree that despite their lack of formal education working boat people were well educated in the operation of a boat, and could teach us quite a lot. in fact all my early boating was under the supervision of a former working boatmamn.

Glad thats cleared up.

Im aware also that a number of the old boat people who came off the boats, had adult education provided for them, to assist in their future. I met a man called Ken or Kenny  who went on to write a short book about it in the 80s. I think he was assisted in his education by beauchamp lodge at little venice.

I still have a copy  of the book unfortunately in store.

All that I know was handed down knowledge , as there was no manual on how to handle a pair of boats, make cross straps, etc. After 40 years im still learning.

[David Schweizer]

58 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Glad thats cleared up.

Im aware also that a number of the old boat people who came off the boats, had adult education provided for them, to assist in their future. I met a man called Ken or Kenny  who went on to write a short book about it in the 80s. I think he was assisted in his education by beauchamp lodge at little venice.

I still have a copy  of the book unfortunately in store.

All that I know was handed down knowledge , as there was no manual on how to handle a pair of boats, make cross straps, etc. After 40 years im still learning.

I knew the people at Beauchamp lodge well in the 1960's, particularly Dennis Jewiss (Known by the boys as "Bo") we were one of the few boats willing to cruise and lock with their boat the William, which had a repution for some fairly "lively" behaviour. Here are some photos photo of the William being squeezed under a guillotine lock on the Nene with assistance from our crew in 1968. I am the bearded character in  the green jumper:-

 

 

           

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

It’s certainly priced to sell. A bit tired, but what would you expect for sub £30k?

Agreed... given what the OP is looking for, they should be arranging a visit within days, and getting it bought if it looks in the flesh like it does in the ad.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Agreed... given what the OP is looking for, they should be arranging a visit within days, and getting it bought if it looks in the flesh like it does in the ad.

 

I agree. It looks a GREAT boat for the money. 

 

My only reservation is Great Heywood is not noted for selling cheap boats, so look for a catch to explain the low price.

 

Never mind a few days, I'd get myself up there tomorrow. The world and his dog will be visiting to view it on Saturday.

[Rob-M]

I'm fairly certain that boat was a couple of berths along from us in the marina and there were people on it over the weekend, whether that was the current owners having a last weekend or new owners I'm not sure but there seemed to be an inquisitive look on the guys face when he was walking around outside the boat.  There seemed to be a flurry of boats sold over the weekend.