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Serious Incident - Shropshire Union Nr Chester 11/03/2015

Colin Smith

By Colin Smith
in General Boating

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Bod Experienced

BodDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Doesn't even have to be mechanical, A guy by us got done for being drunk in charge of a horse (and cart) some years ago.

To which the standard defence is "I was not in charge of the horse, it was in charge of me! mylud"

 

Bod

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cuthound Veteran II

cuthoundDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

They're buggers for it and it's all the more unfair when you consider that you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

That's because it will be holding out for the beer :)

 

Edited to put a space before the smiley.

Edited by cuthound
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Krooko Gongoozler

Krooko

Posted
Posted

Well, I didn't think that my comments would induce such a hostile response from some, the miscreant at the Nook seems to have got off comparatively lightly! There is first the principle of licenses for "captains" or "helmsmen" of boats in inland waterways, then there is the detail. On a seagoing ship the crew generally defer to someone "in charge" I believe. age comes into it too - a child cannot be prosecuted for not wearing a seat belt in a car, but an adult can be. Obviously the detail can't be worked out in a forum, but will take many great minds a good deal of time, and even then will have to be adjusted over time as circumstances change.

 

Big heavy boats can cause a deal of damage, but there is nothing wrong with inadvertently glancing off a boat here and there at tickover when the angle of approach is slightly misjudged or there is a gust of wind. One can make allowances here and there. There is no problem with folk having a drink either after their craft has been securely tied up - what people do in their own space is up to them. What happened last week was exceptional, but there were insufficient sanctions to prevent it happening it seems - just the potential of a paltry fine. All the risks were clearly identifiable - pea souper fog - no visibility even with lights, drunkeness, high speed, no control over the craft, lots of moored boats.

 

I was simply pointing out that the system of licenses for cars works, generally speaking, and hasn't shut the industry down. When new to boating, and before i was able to book in for my Helmsman's cert (okay, not a license as such) i was able to contract the services of an experienced boater to help me out for the day, and learnt a good deal in the process. if someone doesn't have a cert / license, there are other ways to enjoy a trip on a boat - speak to someone who has the skills.

 

rant really over now! thank you,

K

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Jerra Veteran II

Jerra

Posted
Posted (edited)

a child cannot be prosecuted for not wearing a seat belt in a car, but an adult can be.

 

There is no problem with folk having a drink either after their craft has been securely tied up - what people do in their own space is up to them.

Two points.

 

First. For the record children 14 and over are responsible in law for wearing a seat belt. According to Highway code rule 99.

 

Second. If a law was brought in about boats (with similar clauses to cars) and alcohol somebody couldn't drink in a tied up boat. They could be seen as in charge!

 

Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or "otherwise involved with it". In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even "being near the vehicle".

Edited by Jerra
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Stilllearning Influencer

Stilllearning

Posted
Posted

Two points.

 

First. For the record children 14 and over are responsible in law for wearing a seat belt. According to Highway code rule 99.

 

Second. If a law was brought in about boats (with similar clauses to cars) and alcohol somebody couldn't drink in a tied up boat. They could be seen as in charge!

 

Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or "otherwise involved with it". In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even "being near the vehicle".

Being motorhome owners, that part of the law has often concerned me. A policeman with no sense of proportion could, it seems to me, try to do one for having keys, being in the motorhome and drunk, in bed.

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waterdog Community Regular

waterdog

Posted
Posted

Being motorhome owners, that part of the law has often concerned me. A policeman with no sense of proportion could, it seems to me, try to do one for having keys, being in the motorhome and drunk, in bed.

 

I work in the driver rehab area, one of the courses being related to drink drive convictions. I did ask a fairly senior traffic officer about this point and his take was that if you were in the living area of the van then no problem but if drunk in the drivers position then that might be viewed differently especially if parked on a public road. No real issue if off road, on a campsite for example.

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Stilllearning Influencer

Stilllearning

Posted
Posted

 

I work in the driver rehab area, one of the courses being related to drink drive convictions. I did ask a fairly senior traffic officer about this point and his take was that if you were in the living area of the van then no problem but if drunk in the drivers position then that might be viewed differently especially if parked on a public road. No real issue if off road, on a campsite for example.

Yeah that's about what I thought, thanks.

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Emerald Fox Rising Star

Emerald Fox

Posted
Posted

"Being motorhome owners, that part of the law has often concerned me. A policeman with no sense of proportion could, it seems to me, try to do one for having keys, being in the motorhome and drunk, in bed."

 

...and doing 90 down the M6!

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wreckferret Contributor

wreckferret

Posted
Posted

It is generally accepted that you are taught to pass your driving test, then spend the rest of your life "learning to drive"......

I imagine the same would be true of the "helmsmans" course so it makes me wonder what the point of it all is other than to tick a box on someones "to do" list and provide an income for the instructor ??

 

Although i have only had my nb a couple of years, i am no stranger to boat handling (by no means expert) and once you have got your head round the "rear wheel steering" it's all pretty much common sense.......

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Rufford Proficient

Rufford

Posted
Posted

Big heavy boats can cause a deal of damage, but there is nothing wrong with inadvertently glancing off a boat here and there at tickover when the angle of approach is slightly misjudged or there is a gust of wind. One can make allowances here and there. There is no problem with folk having a drink either after their craft has been securely tied up - what people do in their own space is up to them.

 

If alcohol is such a demon and such a problem, surely we should ban it? Also, if you are on such a personal crusade (it is you who owns a pub isnt it?) why do you own a pub?

 

As for big heavy boats causing a deal of damage, I unfortunately miss-judged a corner while ice breaking over Christmas, the back end got caught up and I lost all steering, I ended up t-boning my mates boat while going flat out (granted I did manage to put it in reverse for all of 10 foot). Didnt even dent her boat, only casualties were some smashed crockery (Sorry!).

 

And I have probably one of the heaviest none carrying boats on the system (narrow canals obviously!).

 

I would quite like to know what damage this drunken lass has done, windows, rudders etc etc can easily be broken - but structural damage to steelwork that costs thousands and thousands? Im not so sure.

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MHS Experienced

MHSDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Rufford - can you tell us where you are and your plans? So that we can avoid you! ;)

He will be easy to spot. A man in a top hat with a red flag is now assigned to walk down the towpath in front when he's ice breaking.
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Delta9 Experienced

Delta9

Posted
Posted

Being motorhome owners, that part of the law has often concerned me. A policeman with no sense of proportion could, it seems to me, try to do one for having keys, being in the motorhome and drunk, in bed.

It wouldn't surprise me at all. When I was 17 I got 10 points and a fine for sitting in my car on my parents driveway while wasted. My friend and I had popped out for a cigarette and it started to rain so we sat in the car. I had the keys in the ignition so we could have the radio on.

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