Harecastle jobsworths.

[Arthur Marshall]

Jobsworth at the Harecastle being a pain in the backside, telling half the boats (including me) their horns weren't loud enough, insisting on handing out toy airhorns. I quote: "if my boss were here, he'd make you buy one". I thought, no he wouldn't, unless he promised he'd sack every tunnel bod who has let me through for the last ten years and showed me where a decibel level is quoted.

Up to a couple of years ago there was one who insisted the rules said that your stove had to be out or you couldn't go through. Was no use pointing out that the rules say "no naked flame" and an enclosed stove wasn't one, or that pilot lights were allowed. I assume he got sacked after a quantity of complaints over one winter.I think the job attracts certain types.

[Mad Harold]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Jobsworth at the Harecastle being a pain in the backside, telling half the boats (including me) their horns weren't loud enough, insisting on handing out toy airhorns. I quote: "if my boss were here, he'd make you buy one". I thought, no he wouldn't, unless he promised he'd sack every tunnel bod who has let me through for the last ten years and showed me where a decibel level is quoted.

Up to a couple of years ago there was one who insisted the rules said that your stove had to be out or you couldn't go through. Was no use pointing out that the rules say "no naked flame" and an enclosed stove wasn't one, or that pilot lights were allowed. I assume he got sacked after a quantity of complaints over one winter.I think the job attracts certain types.

Use your Trombone Arthur!

Suggest you play Wagner's 'Flying Dutchman' fff

That'll teach 'em. 😄

[Tracy D'arth]

34 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Jobsworth at the Harecastle being a pain in the backside, telling half the boats (including me) their horns weren't loud enough, insisting on handing out toy airhorns. I quote: "if my boss were here, he'd make you buy one". I thought, no he wouldn't, unless he promised he'd sack every tunnel bod who has let me through for the last ten years and showed me where a decibel level is quoted.

Up to a couple of years ago there was one who insisted the rules said that your stove had to be out or you couldn't go through. Was no use pointing out that the rules say "no naked flame" and an enclosed stove wasn't one, or that pilot lights were allowed. I assume he got sacked after a quantity of complaints over one winter.I think the job attracts certain types.

Its all very irrelevant.  They take no notice and can do nought when someone does sound the emergency signal. Known and can be proven.

They are not allowed to use the fire boat, they have to send for a crew!  How daft is that?

Think about any sensible use of that boat, it is pointless. The only boat that could benefit is the one nearest to it in the line of boats in the tunnel. The rest have to look after themselves.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

Use your Trombone Arthur!

Suggest you play Wagner's 'Flying Dutchman' fff

That'll teach 'em. 😄

I almost did point out that I'd got both a trombone and a cornet on board and both were probably louder than their little toy horn, but, diplomacy and tact being,  rather surprisingly, my middle names I just stuck it in the cupboard and handed it back graciously to the guy at the other end.

First guy was obviously new at the job so it'll possibly get knocked out of him.

[PaulJ]

I must have met a really diplomatic one.

He wasnt overly impressed with the horn volume and gave me an air horn asking me if I would drop it back to the other end of the tunnel for him..😀

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I think I twice went through Harecastle with one of there air horns, handing it back at other end. 
Ive bought my own since. 
 

I was once sent through with sandwiches for matey at the other end. 
 

 

[BEngo]

57 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I was once sent through with sandwiches for matey at the other end. 

So you can honestly say that you have been through Harecastle with a butty.

 

N

[David Mack]

While I was moored waiting to go through Harecastle the chap came up to do the checks.  My horn, which was not great, but had never failed before, would only click when I pushed the button. "Try it with the engine running" said the bod, so I did and it was fine. Obviously my horn needed the extra volts. 

A helpful approach I thought.

[dmr]

We had an afternoon session in the Holy Inadequate then boated up to the tunnel entrance for the night and had a bit of cider. Next day I did not feel so good and forgot to take the chimney down. The very new tunnel keeper failed to spot it.  Everytime I go through the tunnel I think how on earth did I get through with the chimney up without even touching. When we got out the other end the keeper went bonkers and said he was going to get the new tunnel keeper sacked, which was a bit harsh as it was totally my fault.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, dmr said:

We had an afternoon session in the Holy Inadequate then boated up to the tunnel entrance for the night and had a bit of cider. Next day I did not feel so good and forgot to take the chimney down. The very new tunnel keeper failed to spot it.  Everytime I go through the tunnel I think how on earth did I get through with the chimney up without even touching. When we got out the other end the keeper went bonkers and said he was going to get the new tunnel keeper sacked, which was a bit harsh as it was totally my fault.

Was that the time someone asked of they could go in front of you because of your Smokey chimney?

 

That was the evening on the Badger’s Arse that was.

Next stop was the King's Head,

Then Bugsworth.  

We drank Badgers Arse every time you got something around the prop. 

[dmr]

6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Was that the time someone asked of they could go in front of you because of your Smokey chimney?

 

That was the evening on the Badger’s Arse that was.

Next stop was the King's Head,

Then Bugsworth.  

We drank Badgers Arse every time you got something around the prop. 

 

We had a hint of smoke from the exhaust, dunno what they were complaining about. I looked yesterday and we have now done 14,000 hours on that engine, its proper smokey now.

It was very good cider.

[Oddjob]

9 hours ago, dmr said:

 

We had a hint of smoke from the exhaust, dunno what they were complaining about. I looked yesterday and we have now done 14,000 hours on that engine, its proper smokey now.

It was very good cider.

Our boat had 6000 hrs on it and not a hint of smoke. Oil changed every 250 hrs air filter washed ever750 hrs (k&n) proper maintenance works wonders prevention is better than cure I say. Mind you 50 years of large passenger jet maintenance has something to do with my mind set all things mechanical. Lol. 

[dmr]

I reckon 12-14,000 hours is when the bore wear starts to show and theres probably not a lot that can be done to prevent that. I have read that some engines can do 18 - 20,000 hours and a few manage 30,000 but thats probably not in a canal boat, the light load low speed running does them no good.

 

Ours in the Beta JD3 (John Deere 3029) and big DI's are often prone to a bit of smoke. Deere specify an idle speed of 800 for this engine (in its tractor and industrial applications) and on the boat it spends most of its life below 600 so its done well.

 

I will clean my injectors tomorrow and see if that helps 😀

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

46 minutes ago, dmr said:

I will clean my injectors tomorrow and see if that helps 😀

Post a thread with photos and instructions if you do 😃😃😃

I want to take mine out and clean them, they’ve never been touched in over 10 years.

Would be a handy job to learn for those of us who know nowt. 
And I expect it’s pretty straight forward.
 

Different engines yes, but the principle will be same?

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Goliath

[pearley]

On a serious note why do so many boat builders insist on fitting the horn under the gunnel where the front cover can absorb half the sound. A few more feet of wire and put it where it can be heard.

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

Post a thread with photos and instructions if you do 😃😃😃

I want to take mine out and clean them, they’ve never been touched in over 10 years.

Would be a handy job to learn for those of us who know nowt. 
And I expect it’s pretty straight forward.
 

Different engines yes, but the principle will be same?

 

 

You need to talk to Tony on that one. My injectors are very different to yours, both in their construction and removal, and I think there is some sort of funny washer or spacer thingy on the BMC. I have got some previous photos of mine before and after cleaning that I can dig out. They get so much soot on them thats its surprising they were injecting at all, and it also only takes a bit of soot on mine to make the engine a bit smokey.

We have not had a good hard run (Thames Weaver etc) for a couple of years now so I suspect they are going to be bad.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

You need to talk to Tony on that one. My injectors are very different to yours, both in their construction and removal, and I think there is some sort of funny washer or spacer thingy on the BMC. I have got some previous photos of mine before and after cleaning that I can dig out. They get so much soot on them thats its surprising they were injecting at all, and it also only takes a bit of soot on mine to make the engine a bit smokey.

We have not had a good hard run (Thames Weaver etc) for a couple of years now so I suspect they are going to be bad.

Just some pictures of the dirty and then clean injectors would be interesting.

A bit like the car manuals that show you good and bad spark plugs.

 

I could easily just go and buy some reconditioned/new ones and put them in, but I wouldn’t know if I’m discarding good ones, and wouldn’t have learned anything about anything really.

A topic for another time maybe.  👍

[matty40s]

The boat started off its life without a cratch board and cover, with nowhere up front to mount it. It's also sheltered as cheaper horns arent known for their waterproofness.

 

On a serious note why do so many boat builders insist on fitting the horn under the gunnel where the front cover can absorb half the sound. A few more feet of wire and put it where it can be heard

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by matty40s

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, dmr said:

You need to talk to Tony on that one.

 

I don't think removing the injectors and then simply cleaning the external carbon will do much good at all, apart from make you feel you have done something.

 

If you have a single or multi-hole nozzle AND a pin holder and suitable probe wires you MIGHT do some good if you can clear the gum and carbon from the holes but if you can't or if you have pintle or pintaux nozzles the injectors will need to come apart, so any gum can be removed from the needle - then you may have to re-lap the needle into the nozzle.

 

Trying to clean the external carbon off pintle or pintaux nozzles may well snap the pintle and it will do nothing to remove any gum.

 

If an injector is stripped then it needs a pop tester and in the case of pinatux nozzles like the BMC 1.5 and additional piece of kit to test the auxiliary spray hole to set the opening pressure, check for back leakage, and test for dribble and spray pattern. Excess back leakage or dribble will need new nozzles or perhaps re-lapping. Setting the opening pressure on modern injectors is likely to involve a selection of shims that most will not have.

 

The bottom line is that for the vast majority of boaters a reconditioned set of injectors is the only sensible way.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Just some pictures of the dirty and then clean injectors would be interesting.

A bit like the car manuals that show you good and bad spark plugs.

 

I could easily just go and buy some reconditioned/new ones and put them in, but I wouldn’t know if I’m discarding good ones, and wouldn’t have learned anything about anything really.

A topic for another time maybe.  👍

 

Without a pop tester you can't know if they are good or bad, at the best you can indulge in the potentially very dangerous practice of reversing the injector on the pipe, so the nozzle is uppermost to see the spray pattern. You will learn nothing about the opening pressure, back leakage, or dribble.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[StephenA]

15 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Jobsworth at the Harecastle being a pain in the backside, telling half the boats (including me) their horns weren't loud enough, insisting on handing out toy airhorns. I quote: "if my boss were here, he'd make you buy one". I thought, no he wouldn't, unless he promised he'd sack every tunnel bod who has let me through for the last ten years and showed me where a decibel level is quoted.

 

 

Is there a decibel level in the BSS? If CRT are now enforcing one at Harecastle then surely the BSS needs to be updated.

 

Do they have a decibel meter or does it depend on how deaf the volunteer is?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

Is there a decibel level in the BSS?

 

Not that I'm aware of, but there is an engine "Noise Emission" requirement in the RCD so any boat built post 1998 should comply (except for those making self declarations of compliance without even reading the specifications)

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Paul C]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not that I'm aware of, but there is a "Noise Emission" requirement in the RCD so any boat built post 1998 should comply (except for those making self declarations of compliance without even reading the specifications)

 

 

 

 

From this reply, I am now convinced Alan de Enfield is an AI bot. We are discussing the dB level of HORNS, however that piece of copy & paste relates to ENGINE NOISE. Obviously the bot saw dB but didn't AND/OR the results properly to search on dB AND horns.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think removing the injectors and then simply cleaning the external carbon will do much good at all, apart from make you feel you have done something.

 

If you have a single or multi-hole nozzle AND a pin holder and suitable probe wires you MIGHT do some good if you can clear the gum and carbon from the holes but if you can't or if you have pintle or pintaux nozzles the injectors will need to come apart, so any gum can be removed from the needle - then you may have to re-lap the needle into the nozzle.

 

Trying to clean the external carbon off pintle or pintaux nozzles may well snap the pintle and it will do nothing to remove any gum.

 

If an injector is stripped then it needs a pop tester and in the case of pinatux nozzles like the BMC 1.5 and additional piece of kit to test the auxiliary spray hole to set the opening pressure, check for back leakage, and test for dribble and spray pattern. Excess back leakage or dribble will need new nozzles or perhaps re-lapping. Setting the opening pressure on modern injectors is likely to involve a selection of shims that most will not have.

 

The bottom line is that for the vast majority of boaters a reconditioned set of injectors is the only sensible way.

 

 

 

Without a pop tester you can't know if they are good or bad, at the best you can indulge in the potentially very dangerous practice of reversing the injector on the pipe, so the nozzle is uppermost to see the spray pattern. You will learn nothing about the opening pressure, back leakage, or dribble.

Right on Tony, thanks. 
Might be something I get around to later in the year then. I’ll be sure to be asking questions when I come to it. 
I know Calcutt do a swop, old for new at a good price, I’ll wait til I’m down that kneck  of the woods. 
Cheers

Edited April 9, 2023 by Goliath

[bizzard]

Probably no need to remove the injectors to clean them. I've done this numerous times to get commercial vehicle diesels through the strict MOT. Remove fuel filter, tip out half of the fuel and top it up with neat diesel engine injection system cleaner, Redex is a good one. Refit the filter with the 50/50 mix in it, you may have to bleed a little. Start engine on full throttle, throttle back to about half and run it for about 15 mins.

[Heartland]

The term "jobs worth" has a different interpretation from those who enforce the rules.

 

But at the heart of this post is the correct observance of rules or strict observance of rules and the over-zealous interpretation of them. Some might believe those that impose them, act too harshly and others think the rules are not essential at all and believe themselves above them. It can be that latter group who shout out "jobs worth" as a means of insult might fall on deaf ears as there are those that receive it feel pride in receiving such a comment. So is it worthwhile, or futile, making such a comment?

 

Looking at the reasons for having fires extinguished in Harecastle tunnel, those that object might miss the point that Harecastle New Tunnel does have connections with old coal workings and that methane gas might accumulate in the tunnel. In the old days of mining some miners would go into workings with lighted candles instead of the safer miners lamps and sometimes the gas would explode and burn or kill the miners involved. What would a boater say if there was on explosion on the boat in Harecastle Tunnel which was caused by methane gas accumulation.