Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble

Alan de Enfield

Member
  • Content Count

    23235
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    79

Everything posted by Alan de Enfield

  1. No one is trying to find legal loopholes, the thread has remained remarkably 'on topic' and has simply answered the OP's question : "What are the black and white rules on getting rid of human waste. I was talking to a guy that has a macerator toilet and he reckons it goes through the macerator and then out of the boat". I have seen no "lets do it because we can" and I'm sure that the vast majority of boaters would not entertain the idea of pumping out directly into the canal / river, but, as with CMers, there will always be those who push the boundaries of not only what is 'legal' but what is socially acceptable.
  2. Not seen this anywhere else on the forum, so lifted from NBW Calder & Hebble closed for 12 months Published: Wednesday, 19 February 2020 THE Canal & River Trust tell that the Calder & Hebble Navigation will be closed for 12 months! Damage to the Figure of Three locks on the navigation by Storm Ciara that swept across the country on Sunday 10th February will close the navigation, Keith Gudgin reports. Closed for foreseeable future The Trust states 'As a result of damage caused by Storm Ciara, Figure of Three locks will be closed for the foreseeable future'. It goes on to state that its teams are working to fully asses the damage and are designing a programme of works to bring the locks back into operation. Shock news Then comes the shock news that our initial estimates are this may take up to a period of 12 months. There are no details, as is now usual, of the damage caused to the locks or what is needed to put them back in working order, just the words 'Structure failure'. No access This closure means that there will be no access between either the Rochdale or Huddersfield canals and the Aire & Calder, Sheffield & South Yorkshire Navigation or the Trent for a year.
  3. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  4. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  5. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  6. Ok, just to continue the discussion : I have met the three legally required conditions, I have paid the relevant amount and you have issued a licence. You subsequently revoke the licence because you 'catch me' pumping out into the river, but I have still met the 3 conditions and I have already paid.
  7. I see the 'lack of offers' down to the fact that whatever list someone comes up with, using all of their knowledge and experience it will be 'ripped apart' by others saying 'no that's wrong you want to do this'. Ask 20 people to make a list and you'd get 25 variants. Who is going to put themselves up 'on a pedestal' to get knocked down ?
  8. I have a 12" circular hatch on top of my fuel tanks. It has passed the BSS without question.
  9. Keeping the inside temperature cooler than the outside temperature would alleviate the problem. With 'solid' frames (no thermal break) you will get condensation, simply by breathing, boiling the kettle, cooking etc there is not really much you can do - obviously on the glass the condensation can dribble away thru the holes in the base of the frames, but when it is on the edge surround there is nowhere you can drain it off. If you have 'power' a de-humidifier will help, but if not, its going to have to be loads of kitchen roll every morning.
  10. It should be recoverable. DO NOT JUST PUT IT IN A WARM ROOM it will rust up / seize up and any 'nasties' in the water could start etch into the cylinder etc. Remove the carburettor and strip it down, clean all the parts and dry it off. Remove the spark plug and 'pull it over' get all of the water squirted out. Empty engine oil out. Empty fuel tank and refill with fresh fuel Get an engine 'flush' oil put it in engine to the normal oil level. Get some thin oil (or diesel) and pour a little down the plug hole - pull it over a few times. Re-fit the carburettor, attach fuel pipe, throttle etc. Pull over a few times & get the carb full of fuel. Get a syringe (or similar) and squirt a bit (technical measure - less than a fair bit, but more than a little bit), replace plug & plug cap Switch to the normal start position Pull until it starts, Run for a MAXIMUM of a couple of minutes - switch off Drain off engine 'flush oil' and replace with proper engine oil. Start and run for a reasonable time. Ideally this should all be done within 'minutes' of being flooded but we are where we are. Good luck. Edit to add - how to do it with an outboard :
  11. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  12. Isn't that normally applied when there is a law ? Surely if there is no law it cannot be an Ass (or anything else)
  13. Dredging does NOT work. A presentation by the agency, called To Dredge or Not to Dredge?, spells out the problems in terms that even ministers can understand: "The river channel is not large enough to contain extreme floods, even after dredging. Dredging of river channels does not prevent flooding during extreme river flows … The concept of dredging to prevent extreme flooding is equivalent to trying to squeeze the volume of water held by a floodplain within the volume of water held in the river channel. Since the floodplain volume is usually many times larger than the channel volume, the concept becomes a major engineering project and a major environmental change." Is that not bleeding obvious? A river's capacity is tiny by comparison to the catchment from which it draws its water. You can increase the flow of a river by dredging, but that is likely to cause faster and more dangerous floods downstream when the water hits the nearest urban bridge (something the residents of towns like Taunton and Bridgwater should be worried about). If you cut it off from its floodplain by turning it into a deep trench, you might raise its capacity from, say, 2% of the water moving through the catchment to 4%. You will have solved nothing while creating a host of new problems. Among these problems, the Environment Agency points out, are: 1. Massive expense. Once you have started dredging, "it must be repeated after every extreme flood, as the river silts up again". 2. More dangerous rivers: "Removing river bank vegetation such as trees and shrubs decreases bank stability and increases erosion and siltation." 3. The destabilisation of bridges, weirs, culverts and river walls, whose foundations are undermined by deepening the channel: "If the river channels are dredged and structures are not realigned, 'Pinch Points' at structures would occur. This would increase the risk of flooding at the structure." That means more expense and more danger. 4. Destruction of the natural world: "Removing gravel from river beds by dredging leads to the loss of spawning grounds for fish, and can cause loss of some species. Removing river bank soils disturbs the habitat of river bank fauna such as otters and water voles." As the agency says, dredging is primarily a tool for improving navigation and, in some places, land drainage. It has been mistaken by people who ought to know better, including ministers, as a means of dealing with a different problem: flooding. If you want to stop rivers from ruining people's lives, you should engage with the kind of issues that Paterson hinted at. That means, broadly speaking, the following: • More trees and bogs in the uplands – reconnecting rivers with their floodplains in places where it is safe to flood (and paying farmers to store water on their fields while the danger passes); • Making those floodplains rougher by planting trees and other deep vegetation to help hold back the water – lowering the banks and de-canalising the upper reaches, allowing rivers once more to create meanders and braids and oxbow lakes. These trap the load they carry and sap much of their destructive energy. None of these produce instant results. But they are distinguished from dredging in one significant respect: they work. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/30/dredging-rivers-floods-somerset-levels-david-cameron-farmers It is simply not practical to contemplate dredging of the channel (let alone the floodplain) to the extent that would be required to confine such large and rare flood flows from the wider floodplain, since the storage and conveyance capacity of the channel is a small fraction of that of the wider floodplain. In this respect, dredging cannot prevent flooding. https://www.ciwem.org/assets/pdf/Policy/Reports/Floods-and-Dredging-a-reality-check.pdf
  14. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  15. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  16. That'd work. But currently it is not any sort of offence (criminal or otherwise) except where laws have been passed regarding specific waters, for example the Thames. PLA Byelaw 49 came into force on 1 January 2015. The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water's project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways. For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. In some circumstances, sewage from vessels is known as "black water". The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below: In 2015 the PLA proposed to extend the byelaw covering all commercial vessels in the Thames, as currently the passenger boat industry and commercial sailing yachts are not required to contain their Blackwater. This is currently going through consultation with Department for transport and will state; Aofhjvv by 2023 It is interesting to note that a 'pleasure boat' does not come under the licensing criteria of section 124 of the Act, and would thus appear not to be affected by the sewage disposal legislation : 124.—(1) Subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vessel shall not be navigated, worked or moored within the vessel licensing area unless— (a)there is in force in relation to it a relevant licence issued by the Port Authority in accordance with byelaws made by the Port Authority; and (b)the name of the vessel and such other particulars as may be prescribed in byelaws made by the Port Authority are displayed on the vessel in the manner prescribed by those byelaws. (2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to— (a)a vessel which is navigated, worked or moored only occasionally in the vessel licensing area; (b)a pleasure vessel; (c)a hovercraft or seaplane; (d)any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored; That may not be what either you or C&RT would wish the situation to be, but it is what it is.
  17. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
  18. But, legally, they cannot revoke the licence, if they do, then the boater then simply applies for another licence which C&RT have admitted they cannot refuse to issue if you meet the 3-criteria (with the T&Cs not being one of the three) Kindly posted by Nigel Moore 20/7/17 The comments by the previous Waterways Ombudsman are very much to the point in this respect – “British Waterways themselves can sometimes interpret legislation in different ways depending on what suits them in a particular case”. [page 16 of her 2010-2011 Report] http://www.waterways-ombudsman.org/media/1016/annualreports201to11final.pdf CaRT’s submissions to the Mayor of London’s Report on mooring problems in London contains the accurate admission: “People enjoy the right to put a boat on our waterways, providing that they pay the necessary fee, that the boat meets safety standards and has insurance cover for third party liabilities – and that, unless it is used ‘bona fide’ for navigation throughout the period of consent, it must have a home mooring (somewhere where the boat ‘can lawfully be kept when not being used for navigation’2 ).” https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/gla_migrate_files_destination/Combined responses_Part1_0.pdf [see page 10] This was more explicitly enunciated in CaRT’s “Overview of statutory framework”, page 6, which acknowledges clearly enough: – “The British Waterways Act 1995 limits to three specific criteria our ability to refuse to licence a boat.” [my emphasis] https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/1127.pdf They go on, however, in their submission to the GLA, to inaccurately claim [in effective contradiction of the above quoted public statement] that revocation of the licence with subsequent s.8 removal “is the only sanction available to us in respect of a breach in licence terms.” [page 12 of the GLA Report pack on Responses in the link above] Insofar as any breach of non-statutory terms can naturally have no sanction applicable, this would explain the s.8 process chosen - albeit with no legal justification whatsoever - while any breach of approved byelaws etc contains within the legislation the accompanying legislated sanction – which does NOT include revocation of a licence. If a sanction is not legislated for, then the claimed legal outrage does not exist and such T&C’s are – as acknowledged to Parliament by BW in the debates over the 1990 Bill – mere guidance without the force of law. Revoking a licence can only be enabled upon breach of the s.17 conditions, exactly as, admitted by them above, refusing a licence can only be enabled by failure to meet those conditions. In short, where the 1995 Act has expressly limited grounds for refusal/revocation of a licence to 3 specific conditions, then the issue of the licence CANNOT legally be subjected to compliance with anything else. Where, under byelaw making powers passed on to CaRT by the terms of their Statutory Instrument, conditions of use of the waterways by licensed boats may still be added to, the relevant statutory procedure must be followed – but those, as with existing byelaws, could only govern use of the waterways by licensed boats, they could never be tied to issue or revocation of the licence. Any attempt to portray them as something issue and retention of the licence is subject to, is blatant falsehood. The law quite simply does NOT permit T&C’s to be attached to issue of the licence, therefore the asserted contrary statements and actions are indeed unlawful. When elements of these T&C’s specifically claim to over-ride express statutory protections and prohibitions, the legal affront is all the more objectionable.
  19. Yes & No. It depends where (and when) you intend to cruise. Several of the Mediterranean countries have passed laws regarding the release of not only sewage into the Sea, but GREY water also. These are monitored very tightly and big fines imposed. You register your boat and all of your pump-outs are measured and recorded, if you don't pump-out as much as you 'should' since the previous pump-out then you are 'in trouble'. More and more Med countries are looking at imposing similar rules, but at the moment Turkey is the country most vigorously applying them (having passed laws making it a criminal act) Many boats in Europe are now being built (our cruiser included) with both Black and Grey tanks to make them 'future-proof'. According to Turkish Environmental Law it is prohibited to release directly or indirectly any kind of waste or leftovers into the environment. The Turkish Environmental law seems to have given 'any kind of waste' a very broad meaning and thus includes grey water as a pollutant. Where there is possibility of pollution, any authorised personnel are obliged to prevent the pollution and the individuals causing the pollution are obliged to take the necessary precautions to minimise any effect thereof. The Turkish Authorities regard any kind of waste as a pollutant. Further article 181/182 of the new Turkish Criminal Code No.52371 provides for imprisonment for intentional or negligent pollution of the environment. Examples of recent cases : 1) In a recent Gard case, Turkish Authorities imposed a large fine due to pollution by grey water (galley water) discharged into the sea while the ship was at berth. The port authority inspectors most likely became aware of the discharge and took samples whilst the dirty water was being discharged overboard from cabins’ bathrooms. 2) Another case involved a vessel leaving berth in a Turkish port for the anchorage area. Whilst the crew was washing the compass deck and bridge wing with a fire hose, the port authority inspector came alongside the vessel and took some samples of the sea water on both the starboard and port side scuppers of the vessel. The result was that the ship was fined due to dirty water (oil, dust residues and some foreign materials) on deck leaking into the sea. From the RYA website : The Mediterranean Spain Spain has holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available. Greece In Greece the regulations relating to discharges and pollution make a holding tank a practical necessity although we are not aware of them being a legal requirement as yet. Caution should also be exerted with grey water in Greece. Turkey Discharge of any kind may be considered illegal. A black water tank has therefore been a practical necessity in Turkey for many years. New rules have been coming into force in some areas of Turkey (such as the Mugla District) over the last few years which require vessels to carry a Blue Card. If the rules are enforced to the full all black and grey water will need to be collected and pumped out ashore; the Blue Card will be used to monitor the amount of waste water deposited ashore to ensure holding tanks are pumped out rather than emptied into the sea. France French law requires that as of 1 January 2008 new vessels, whether French or foreign flagged, are fitted with a treatment system or retention tank for black water if they wish to have access to French maritime or river ports, moorings and anchorages. Users of older vessels which are not equipped with treatment systems or holding tanks for black water are, like all other pleasure yacht users, required to comply with the rules which prohibit discharge in ports and designated anchoring spots. They must therefore use shore toilets. How these rules are to be applied or enforced is not very clear but it is anticipated that guidelines or a further law defining the extent and manner of application and any sanctions will be issued in the future. In principle it is forbidden to flush toilets into canals and rivers, but as pump out facilities are few and far between until now discreet overboard discharging has been tolerated, this may of course change.
  20. Maybe you are thinking of this one ; 40. No person shall throw or discharge into or on to any canal any animal (whether alive or dead) or any rubbish, stones or other material of any kind whatsoever or deposit such materials so as to be washed or carried into any canal by floods or other means, or in any wise cause obstruction in any canal. C&RTs Licence T&Cs state : Whilst the Boat is on the Waterway, you must behave considerately towards others (boaters and non-boaters alike) and in particular you must not: (a) do anything which will cause damage or nuisance to any other person or their property; (b) use any electricity generator, including the Boat's engine, at any mooring along the Waterway between 8pm and 8am, unless you are moored in isolation, out of earshot of other people. We do not intend this Rule to stop you moving the Boat from the mooring; (c) run the Boat’s engine in gear when it is moored as this can damage the Waterway walls and cause a nuisance to other people; (d) discharge anything into the Waterway from the Boat except unpolluted surface water that drains naturally or water from sinks or showers, washing machines and dishwashers. We request that only phosphate-free detergents are used on board the Boat, particularly in washing machines and dish washers; But as this is not a legal requirement it is unenforceable. BSS Requirements : 9.2.1 Is a closeable valve fitted in the discharge line of any toilet appliance or toilet holding tank with overboard discharge? Check all toilets and toilet holding tanks for the presence of an overboard discharge line. If present, check for the presence and condition of a closeable valve installed in the discharge line. A diverter valve must be fitted and closed when the BSS examiner checks the boat, and the examiner must not operate the valve.
  21. It is allowed (permitted) in any waterway that doesn't have legislation forbidding it. The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016 UK Statutory Instruments 2016 No. 1154 SCHEDULE 21 Paragraph 3 Meaning of “water discharge activity” 3.—(1) A “water discharge activity” means any of the following— (a)the discharge or entry to inland freshwaters, coastal waters or relevant territorial waters of any— (i)poisonous, noxious or polluting matter, (ii)waste matter, or (iii)trade effluent or sewage effluent; (b)the discharge from land through a pipe into the sea outside the seaward limits of relevant territorial waters of any trade effluent or sewage effluent; (c)the removal from any part of the bottom, channel or bed of any inland freshwaters of a deposit accumulated by reason of any dam, weir or sluice holding back the waters, by causing it to be carried away in suspension in the waters, unless the activity is carried on in the exercise of a power conferred by or under any enactment relating to land drainage, flood prevention or navigation; (d)the cutting or uprooting of a substantial amount of vegetation in any inland freshwaters or so near to any such waters that it falls into them, where it is not reasonable to take steps to remove the vegetation from these waters; (e)an activity in respect of which a notice under paragraph 4 or 5 has been served and has taken effect. (2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”— (a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision, or (b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel. (3) In determining whether a discharge or an activity is a water discharge activity, no account must be taken of any radioactivity possessed by any substance or article or by any part of any premises.
  22. Wasn't he Chinese ? I'm sure I remember his name ……………………………. C'mon, think ………………….. "Who Flung Dung" - that was it.
  23. Caban Coch dam (Mid Wales) transformed into a 120ft waterfall And, in more 'normal times'
  24. This post cannot be displayed because it is in a forum which requires at least 10 posts to view.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.