Mooring Problems

[David Mack]

9 minutes ago, perfectlydressed said:

Fraud by deception

Since this person provided you with a mooring in exchange for the money you paid I think you would have an uphill struggle to prove you have been defrauded.

The landowner might have been defrauded, but that depends very much on what agreement, if any, he had with the person renting out the moorings.

13 minutes ago, perfectlydressed said:

pretty stupid to make judgements and assumptions without knowing all the facts.

Since the only facts we have are those you have provided, we can only comment on the basis of those. And presumably that's what you wanted us to do, as otherwise why would you have posted in the first place?

[Graham Davis]

14 minutes ago, perfectlydressed said:

Fraud by deception, pretty stupid to make judgements and assumptions without knowing all the facts.

The ONLY person here making judgements is you becasue you quite obviously do not understand the Law. 
On the "facts" you have so far told us it is you that has got things wrong, but you don't appear to like being told that.

[Richard10002]

5 hours ago, perfectlydressed said:

SO what?

So I want my legal money back and frankly its the land owners responsibility in planning law to be legally aware of what's happening with their land, which there are.

 

Have you asked for your money back? What did they say?

 

If you haven't asked,then that should be your first step. If they refuse, or ignore, then you need to pursue it in the courts.

 

They will have no alternative other than to defend it or cough up.

 

Having said that, you may lose, and any money spent will have been good after bad. Although you seem to believe you have all the evidence needed, so I would crack on with it.

[Arthur Marshall]

When I moved mooring, I had to notify CRT (obviously) and they had to ok the new mooring, so that it was on their database for EOG. The original place I wanted to go to, an ex boatyard, was not so mooring was not allowed. Neither were owned by CRT but on their water. Even if your house backs on the the cut, you need CRT's permission to moor your boat there, and pay them.

So surely if the OP had a mooring for two years, either she was paying EOG herself or the landowner was paying a fee to CRT. Either way, the mooring was legitimate so there's no refund due. If it wasn't, and she didn't state the mooring to CRT she's lucky she didn't face enforcement and lose her boat.

It's rarely worth worrying about money that's gone. Even if there was something odd going on, it would probably cost more to get it back than you lost in the first place.

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, perfectlydressed said:

I

Have I missed something

[Graham Davis]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have I missed something

See post 3 for a quote of what she said in the opening post she has editted.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Graham Davis

[Bee]

Many years ago I was paying rent for a room to a bloke in the house who was passing it on to the landlord.... except he wasn't. One morning I was alone in the house when there was a heavy knock on the door and there stood the real landlord with two heavies who explained the situation. I was out in 5 minutes and living in my van. This was in an 'interesting' part of Bristol. If I was the OP I would stay put and stop worrying until either the same thing happened or a bloke in a suit carrying some sort of legal stuff turned up.

[Tam & Di]

2 hours ago, perfectlydressed said:

Fraud by deception, pretty stupid to make judgements and assumptions without knowing all the facts.

I am a CCer but at the time of having the so called mooring I obviously was not, pretty simple for any normal person.

Where do you draw the conclusion that I will be liberal with the facts?

Post your location if up north and we can clarify it for you at your boat?

 

You obviously feel you should get your money back, and although your initial post was in the form of a question you don't appear to like the answers. But even if everyone had said 'yes, you're right - go for it", what would you do? You won't get legal advice on here, and if you really expect to be able to sue the mooring operator for a refund you will need to go to law (unless you hope that a whole band of CWDF people will go with you to the site armed with cudgels 😟). There's certainly little point in getting stoppy about the replies.

 

Your assumptions about the Land Registry proving that the mooring was illegal in some manner are simply not valid, but you would get more reliable advice from a Citizens Advice Bureau, and they would be the people to point you in the next direction.

 

Tam

[Jim Riley]

Hmmm, so the OP paid for a couple of years, presumably happily, is now a CCer and wants all her rent back? I wonder what the reason for the change of circumstances is, a falling out with the "landlord", a quest for revenge? 

[GUMPY]

Did the OP actually moor a boat on the mooring?

If not could it be that they were gaming the system by telling cart they had a mooring on paper which they never used and they have been found out?

[magnetman]

Maybe the OP is a CRT stooge and the plan by the overlords of the Board is to get things organised and if you don't have an authorised mooring which pays the CRT then you pay more money to license your boat. 

 

Its just a test to see what the reaction is. 

 

 

[enigmatic]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

Yet another case of a new poster getting arsey when given advice he doesn't want to hear. 

Possibly the first case of them getting angry because there's nothing to worry about though  

 

 

The majority of the time I rented housing I wasn't renting from the person on the Land Registry papers (letting agents, sublets, leaseholders). Never thought about asking for my money back!

 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

9 hours ago, perfectlydressed said:

I am a CCer but at the time of having the so called mooring I obviously was not, pretty simple for any normal person.

Where do you draw the conclusion that I will be liberal with the facts?

Post your location if up north and we can clarify it for you at your boat?

Maybe you should let everyone know where you are and where you were mooring, as I’m not the one who thinks they’ve been ripped off and who seams to have lost their mooring and are now CCing.

  If you’ve got such a gripe with whoever was taking your money for your mooring, name them and the location. 

  Looking at you profile Artist/North West, I imagine Manchester way?

Edited March 27, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Arthur Marshall]

I can't see where either the fraud or deception lies. OP paid for a mooring, she got one  unquestioned by anybody, for two years, presumably as long as she wanted it for and accepted by CRT. So she wasn't cheated as she got what she paid for.

Whoever the landowner was, either they got their share, didn't want one, or they cared so little about the land they were unaware of its use for two years, so they have no cause to complain either.

We all want our money back. I'm thinking of demanding the two grand back that I paid for my trombone because for some weird reason it doesn't always play the right notes. About the same level of reasoning, maybe.

[Pluto]

21 hours ago, dmr said:

It was quite common in the olde days to be a bit less precise about land ownership and the canals are olde.

Lots of changes of ownership    Landowner....canal company.....another canal company......railways.....BW.......CRT   with possibly parts going into private or council ownership at some stage. There are loads of places where the ownership is assumed but not clear, various grandfathers rights issues and informal renting of land. This is part of canal life. I suspect a fair few places where a landowner, or land custodian, is renting out a mooring without official permission from CRT.

If the mooring is good and the price is ok then just keep your head down and enjoy it while it lasts.

 

Having looked through some of the L&LC deeds and land purchase records, they are very precise about ownership. In some cases payment for land used took over forty years as they sorted out who actually owned the land, and the deeds sometimes have wills and other paperwork going back to the 17th century. That said, there are certainly land ownership questions, particularly in the north of England, where copyright ownership of land was prevalent, a system which has resulted land not being on the Land Registry. The copyhold system was probably one of the major factors behing the industrial revolution as it gave certainty of tenure, thus making development worthwhile.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'm thinking of demanding the two grand back that I paid for my trombone because for some weird reason it doesn't always play the right notes. 

'OW MOOCH?

For that price, it should come with an autotune.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

[snip]

We all want our money back. I'm thinking of demanding the two grand back that I paid for my trombone because for some weird reason it doesn't always play the right notes.

 

I think you'll find if you drink more beer the trombone always plays the right notes -- of course, not necessarily in the right order... 😉

Edited March 28, 2023 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

Paid for a mooring and got a mooring FFS, whats to moan about. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Paid for a mooring and got a mooring FFS, whats to moan about. 

Exactly. Sounds that something wasn’t right with the person who was giving her the mooring for two years and now the situation has been sussed, so she’s lost the mooring and has to CC which she is not happy with??

 Being an Artist she’s been a bit sketchy and hasn’t given us the full picture of  facts/location and exactly what transpired, so we’ve all drawn our own conclusions and she doesn’t seam to like what she’s being told.

[BWM]

I assume that the OP hasn't been on the cut for long, as moorings - particularly those connected to boatyards are invariably 'grey areas'. Some are in disused arms, others have complicated, multiple owners and so on. One i pass regularly often has a boat moored on the lock landing at the top of a flight. No one seems to complain and why would they, a shame if canal users start to mimic Ambulance chasers/whiplash fantasists, scamming to get money.

[magnetman]

iwantmywintermooringfeeback.com ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 

 Being an Artist she’s been a bit sketchy and hasn’t given us the full picture of  facts/location and exactly what transpired, so we’ve all drawn our own conclusions and she doesn’t seam to like what she’s being told.

The picture she’s painted lacks clarity/information/detail, things are out of proportion and perspective is skewed.
A more realistic picture of reality would be better. 

[Peanut]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

The picture she’s painted lacks clarity/information/detail, things are out of proportion and perspective is skewed.
A more realistic picture of reality would be better. 

Figurative art is so démodé, loose and abstract is where it's at.

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

The picture she’s painted lacks clarity/information/detail, things are out of proportion and perspective is skewed.
A more realistic picture of reality would be better. 

Hopefully she’ll not use Artistic License and we can get the facts.

[Hudds Lad]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

The picture she’s painted lacks clarity/information/detail, things are out of proportion and perspective is skewed.
A more realistic picture of reality would be better. 

Bit sketchy, expected better from an old master.