Clodi Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, dor said: Before you start, have you checked the requirements of the Boat Safety Certificate? Especially with regard to being a liveaboard boat. Are there different reg's for liveaboard boats then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Clodi said: Are there different reg's for liveaboard boats then? No. Just different levels of Inspectors who can't do gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Clodi said: Are there different reg's for liveaboard boats then? Only in as much as the GSIUR gas regulations apply to liveaboards, and they don't apply to 'leisure' boats. Only a qualified Gas Safe registered engineers can do the BSS on liveaboard boats, a non-qualified one can do the BSS on 'leisure' boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny London Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 I've seen a few lifeboats (used for leisure/living) on my travels, and I can't understand for the life of me ... why!? No windows (save what you can be bothered to cut out for) and the most curved and difficult interior space to work with. It's tricky enough on a nb with the slanted walls/curved ceiling when it comes to fitted cabinets etc - I can barely imagine the frustration of bespoking every cut on a lifeboat. All that said - good luck with the project and I look forward to seeing your progress and maybe some pictures too! To answer your question though - I haven't tried this, but have you thought of a good sharp hand saw? Often the hand tools get over looked these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Clodi said: Are there different reg's for liveaboard boats then? I had an idea that several items that are advisory for a leisure boat are requirements for liveaboards. I might be wrong there, but there are certainly some differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, dor said: I had an idea that several items that are advisory for a leisure boat are requirements for liveaboards. I might be wrong there, but there are certainly some differences. The differences are between Leisure and Commercial (eg for hire) boats - a couple of examples being 1) hull openings must be at least 10" above the water line on 'commercial' but it is only advisory on leisure boats. 2) Ventilation requirements MUST be met on 'commercial' but are only advisable on leisure boats. EG :- The provisions of this section of Part 10 in the 2002 BSS Standards are mandatory for non-private boats where applicable. To reduce the risk of your boat sinking if it keels over or is excessively weighed down, it's a good idea for privately owned boats to only have openings which are at a height of at least 250mm (10ins) above the waterline. Where openings are necessary below this level this risk can be reduced by ensuring that these openings are permanently and securely connected to ducts or pipes, which are watertight up to that level. Self-draining cockpits may not be able to meet the 250mm (10ins) recommendation but, for privately owned boats, it's a good idea to stop water getting into other parts of the hull by incorporating non-return valves in the drains and/or having bulkheads or cills up to a height of 150mm (6ins). The 2002 Regulations are still in force for non-private boats (Commercial) boats, for private (leisure) boats the more relaxed 2015 regulations apply. There are many, many differences between the 2002 and 2015 editions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X Alan W Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Johny London said: I've seen a few lifeboats (used for leisure/living) on my travels, and I can't understand for the life of me ... why!? No windows (save what you can be bothered to cut out for) and the most curved and difficult interior space to work with. It's tricky enough on a nb with the slanted walls/curved ceiling when it comes to fitted cabinets etc - I can barely imagine the frustration of bespoking every cut on a lifeboat. All that said - good luck with the project and I look forward to seeing your progress and maybe some pictures too! To answer your question though - I haven't tried this, but have you thought of a good sharp hand saw? Often the hand tools get over looked these days. The Japanese "SILKY" pruning saw makes short work of wood & anything softer it goes through no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Johny London said: I've seen a few lifeboats (used for leisure/living) on my travels, and I can't understand for the life of me ... why!? No windows (save what you can be bothered to cut out for) and the most curved and difficult interior space to work with. It's tricky enough on a nb with the slanted walls/curved ceiling when it comes to fitted cabinets etc - I can barely imagine the frustration of bespoking every cut on a lifeboat. All that said - good luck with the project and I look forward to seeing your progress and maybe some pictures too! To answer your question though - I haven't tried this, but have you thought of a good sharp hand saw? Often the hand tools get over looked these days. In the 'olden days' as the kids say, old traditional lifeboats were readily available and relatively easy to convert to simple, and affordable boats, both on inland waters and coastal. It is not surprising that many early boaters on inland waters took advantage of their availability to give them the opprtunity to get afloat. Since then many boatbuilders have developed what we now think of as the standard type of leisure craft, but the increasing availability of redundant offshore lifeboats has resurected this opportunity of a cheap way of getting afloat. However, standards of expectation have greatly increased but the construction of these craft make it much more difficult to achieve an acceptable and affordable standard of conversion. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Johny London said: I've seen a few lifeboats (used for leisure/living) on my travels, and I can't understand for the life of me ... why!? No windows (save what you can be bothered to cut out for) and the most curved and difficult interior space to work with. It's tricky enough on a nb with the slanted walls/curved ceiling when it comes to fitted cabinets etc - I can barely imagine the frustration of bespoking every cut on a lifeboat. All that said - good luck with the project and I look forward to seeing your progress and maybe some pictures too! To answer your question though - I haven't tried this, but have you thought of a good sharp hand saw? Often the hand tools get over looked these days. All of the above, plus, after all that effort, you've got the ugliest boat on a canal system where that takes quite a bit of doing. Just as narrowboats simply don't belong at sea, lifeboats simply don't belong on canals - they are an awesome design for their specific purpose, but its not on the cut where you're inlind, in shallow water 5 feet from the bank and never more than a pair of hours from a pub! There should be a bylaw about what boats can go on the canal, but there isn't, it's not up to me anyway and I'm old enough to realise it takes all sorts! So I'll get my coat... (can't help wondering why though) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sea Dog said: All of the above, plus, after all that effort, you've got the ugliest boat on a canal system where that takes quite a bit of doing. Just as narrowboats simply don't belong at sea, lifeboats simply don't belong on canals - they are an awesome design for their specific purpose, but its not on the cut where you're inlind, in shallow water 5 feet from the bank and never more than a pair of hours from a pub! There should be a bylaw about what boats can go on the canal, but there isn't, it's not up to me anyway and I'm old enough to realise it takes all sorts! So I'll get my coat... (can't help wondering why though) ? If you were to ban unsuitable boats from the canal then all widebeams based on Narrowboat style should be banned. Let’s take the bad things about a Narrowboat and none of the good things! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko264 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 We was on the upper themes last week and there was two old life boats one behind the other I would have thought a reciprocating saw would be good to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 I'd second what has been said on getting as much done as you can before moving on. With your stuff on board any work will take several times as long as the first and last tasks will be moving stuff out the way, then moving it back again. Worse still, you may get the urge to go cruising instead of fitting out and then the fit out work stops altogether! Happened to me. These style of lifeboats give you a good hull and a well maintained engine and basic electrical system for a very good price. They aren't really the ideal shape for either canals, or living aboard, but I can see why people go for them. They can be made in to something nice and a bit different from the usual sewer tube, or yoghurt pot. Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 There are quite a few lifeboat conversions in London, it would be worth joining the London Boaters Facebook group to make queries about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Clodi said: Are there different reg's for liveaboard boats then? In the context of your question, no the BSS regulations for liveaboards are exactly the same as for leisure boats. There are additional regulations that cover liveaboards, but these are not the BSS. The rules that govern gas in houses also happen to cover gas in liveaboard boats, but not gas in leisure boats. Those regs are the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. The GSIUR. Edited July 10, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman To expand a bit on my initial answer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doratheexplorer Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 22 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: With just two smallish domestic batteries to power it the answer is "a very small one", say about 100 watts. So only any good for charging phones etc. Certainly no good for power tools. I have three leisure batteries and a 2000 watt inverter. Works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 21 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Only in as much as the GSIUR gas regulations apply to liveaboards, and they don't apply to 'leisure' boats. Only a qualified Gas Safe registered engineers can do the BSS on liveaboard boats, a non-qualified one can do the BSS on 'leisure' boats. 22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: In the context of your question, no the BSS regulations for liveaboards are exactly the same as for leisure boats. There are additional regulations that cover liveaboards, but these are not the BSS. The rules that govern gas in houses also happen to cover gas in liveaboard boats, but not gas in leisure boats. Those regs are the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. The GSIUR. I believe that if the vessel is fitted with a bubble tester, then a non Gas Safe BSS inspector can carry out the inspection on a liveaboard boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said: I believe that if the vessel is fitted with a bubble tester, then a non Gas Safe BSS inspector can carry out the inspection on a liveaboard boat. This is correct. But a Gas Safe BSS inspector may well flag up other gas safety risks banned under GSIUR but not banned by BSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil2 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 15 hours ago, Sea Dog said: All of the above, plus, after all that effort, you've got the ugliest boat on a canal system where that takes quite a bit of doing. Just as narrowboats simply don't belong at sea, lifeboats simply don't belong on canals - they are an awesome design for their specific purpose, but its not on the cut where you're inlind, in shallow water 5 feet from the bank and never more than a pair of hours from a pub! There should be a bylaw about what boats can go on the canal, but there isn't, it's not up to me anyway and I'm old enough to realise it takes all sorts! So I'll get my coat... (can't help wondering why though) ? As you say, there's fierce competition for the title of ugliest boat on the canals, but I'm not sure I agree these lifeboats have it. And surely there's an argument that the underwater profile of these vessels is better suited to today's poorly dredged waterways than the typical slab sided widebeam. The main issue surely is air draught - I remember thinking when I saw it that the Navvies Ark might struggle to get through Foulridge tunnel, though the overall shape might be deceptive. But surely the height above water must limit the practicality of these modern conversions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: This is correct. But a Gas Safe BSS inspector may well flag up other gas safety risks banned under GSIUR but not banned by BSS. That's a good point and well worth bearing mind if you're a liveaboard with gas on your boat. The temptation is usually to go down the 'cheap route' where possible and employ your friendly local inspector who may well not be Gas Safe registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth E Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 09/07/2018 at 11:22, Tony Brooks said: With just two smallish domestic batteries to power it the answer is "a very small one", say about 100 watts. So only any good for charging phones etc. Certainly no good for power tools. Would it not be fair to say that a more powerful inverter could be fitted, provided that due thought is given to what power is going in and out? I myself have just one leisure battery, my normal usage is around 30ah/ day. I do on occasion run my 500w angle grinder through my 600w inverter but only for fairly short periods, maybe half an hour or so. I only do this on sunny summer days (375w solar) or if there's no sun I run either the engine or a generator, to make sure the battery doesn't get too depleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, Gareth E said: Would it not be fair to say that a more powerful inverter could be fitted, provided that due thought is given to what power is going in and out? Depends on the battery type and for what the Inverter is used for. ie. short bursts like a Microwave or for long periods of time.. Leisure Batteries can give up the amps fairly quickly so for short bursts at high amps they are good for, so you won't need as many batteries as you would if you had Traction batteries which don't like to give up the amps but can be discharged deeper without the same amount of damage as Leisures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree monkey Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 17 hours ago, X Alan W said: The Japanese "SILKY" pruning saw makes short work of wood & anything softer it goes through no problem But remember they demand a blood sacrifice everytime they are removed from the scabbard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, tree monkey said: But remember they demand a blood sacrifice everytime they are removed from the scabbard It would probably get one if i owned one. Bound to cut myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said: I have three leisure batteries and a 2000 watt inverter. Works fine. Yes - three, and I bet they have a greater capacity then the two the OP seems to have. As mentioned early in the thread it depends whet you want to do with the inverter but with those batteries longer periods of power tool use seems questionable. Oh, and the wiring on what I take to be the leisure batteries looks odd to me as well. 1 hour ago, Gareth E said: Would it not be fair to say that a more powerful inverter could be fitted, provided that due thought is given to what power is going in and out? I myself have just one leisure battery, my normal usage is around 30ah/ day. I do on occasion run my 500w angle grinder through my 600w inverter but only for fairly short periods, maybe half an hour or so. I only do this on sunny summer days (375w solar) or if there's no sun I run either the engine or a generator, to make sure the battery doesn't get too depleted. I fully agree with this but I was just trying to get the OP to think about the battery side rather than what he wants to run. I also suspect you have more than what looks as if it may be just a 170Ah bank. (2 x 85 Ah). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth E Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: Yes - three, and I bet they have a greater capacity then the two the OP seems to have. As mentioned early in the thread it depends whet you want to do with the inverter but with those batteries longer periods of power tool use seems questionable. Oh, and the wiring on what I take to be the leisure batteries looks odd to me as well. I fully agree with this but I was just trying to get the OP to think about the battery side rather than what he wants to run. I also suspect you have more than what looks as if it may be just a 170Ah bank. (2 x 85 Ah). Mine is a single 12v Trojan. From memory, I think it's 105 ah. I'm hoping these fairly short bursts of high demand for current, say 35 amps for half and hour, having deducted the input from solar, haven't damaged it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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