Hit Again!!!!

[dogless]

I suppose we shouldn't be too hard on the man,

 

Halsall's only a little boat and easy to miss !

 

Rog

[nb Innisfree]

If you must row this is the only civilised way to do it.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=forward+facing+oars&oq=forward+facing+oars&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.9971j0j4&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[max's son]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjXR7pAQ-fE

 

Standing up is Paddle boarding, they are invading the canals

[FadeToScarlet]

Yep, that's the sculler's fault for not keeping a good lookout on where he was going.

 

As others have said, when rowing for sport you can't face the other way- because it doesn't work like that.

 

Incidentally, the coxswain of a coxed boat (eight or four, very rarely a coxed pair) does a fair bit more than just keep a lookout. They must steer, which isn't always that easy when a 60' long boat has a rudder half the size of a playing card. They can't see directly where they're going if in a stern-loaded boat, because all the rowers are in the way- so need to peek around as best as they can, and do other things like keep track of how many boats are in front, if you could see five and now see four, where's the other one gone? Or, in a bowloader boat, you're lying down with your head cricked at an unnatural angle, and can see where you're going- but need to rely on feeling what the rowers are doing to coach them, as you can't see them.

 

Then you also need to coach the rowers to improve how they are doing- either individual points, about timing, hand heights, etc., or as a crew, from what you can see or what you can feel in the movements of the boat.

 

You're normally also in charge of the session, so are keeping track of what exercises and work have been done, and what needs to be done next.

 

If you're racing, you're calling the shots- executing a specific race plan, with focuses on different things at different points, and motivating the rowers.

 

At all times, you're responsible for the safety of your crew and equipment, first and foremost.

[Alan de Enfield]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjXR7pAQ-fE

 

Standing up is Paddle boarding, they are invading the canals

 

I watched a race in the Olympics - 2 man kayaking - where they both half stood to row / paddle.

Cannot remember the name of the event.

[Ray T]

Since you seem to know a bit about this can you answer a question for me.

 

We were on the Thames in Oxford a while ago, and saw a few boats with 2 or 3 people in them who were standing up to row. They had long oars (obviously) and were doing more of a stiring motion with the paddle than conventional rowing.

 

Looked a bit unstable. We saw 1 boat on our way down, then a whole fleet of them getting back to the boathouse as we came back again.

 

Looking forward to the answer.

 

Thanks

 

Sue

 

Sue, if you go on catch up TV or what ever the first of the new series of Tim and Pru from Venice has a little piece on stand up rowers.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Ray T

[RLWP]

 

I watched a race in the Olympics - 2 man kayaking - where they both half stood to row / paddle.

Cannot remember the name of the event.

 

The boats in Oxford were definitely sculling:

 

 

Richard

[Jerra]

 

I watched a race in the Olympics - 2 man kayaking - where they both half stood to row / paddle.

Cannot remember the name of the event.

I think you are talking about canoeing rather than Kayaking. Kayak they sit down canoes they kneel and I saw some kneeling with one knee very high as they had the foot on the floor.

I think it is refereed to as C2 c for canoe 2 for number of paddlers the equivalent in a Kayak would be K2

[RLWP]

I think you are talking about canoeing rather than Kayaking. Kayak they sit down canoes they kneel and I saw some kneeling with one knee very high as they had the foot on the floor.

I think it is refereed to as C2 c for canoe 2 for number of paddlers the equivalent in a Kayak would be K2

 

Canoe C2:

 

 

Kayak K2:

 

 

Richard

[max's son]

These are sprint Canoes known as High Kneelers most Canadian canoes you sit on a thwart or yoke and the paddle would be shorter

[Robbo]

Yes. Motorised craft give way to rowing and sailing boats. Rowing boats give way to sailing boats.

 

It's actually not that simple, it's all to do with moveablility (or lack of), in a channel (like a canal) or shallow water big boats are less movable so have priority.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Robbo

[Horace42]

Yes. Motorised craft give way to rowing and sailing boats. Rowing boats give way to sailing boats......................

 

..............Actually a long racing rowing boat is not that easy to turn as you might think................

I have always understood the rudder in these racing skiffs was not for the cox to turn the boat as such, but more for 'trimming' to go in a straight line to compensate slight differences in rowing power each side of the boat.. Any significant turning action was by calls to the rowers on one side to increase or reverse power.

 

In terms of giving way, my early experience in the early 1950's was in canvas canoes on the Thames at Hampton (canoes were at the bottom end of the pecking order). We were told to give way to everything. It might not have been strict protocol (are canoes rowing boats?), but sound advice because the canoes were so fragile that they would come off worst in an accident regardless of who was in the right. A sharp pointed skiff would pass through a canoe.

 

I recount an incident on the Thames at Kingston - where giving way was in some way contributory to the accident - it all happened so fast - a rowing eight was heading at speed towards a motor launch - that realising they were in the way - accelerated at full throttle to clear a path where the jerk caused a passenger to overbalance and fall backwards into the water.

The cox seeing this called for oars to be raised to miss the victim and now without stopping power 'triimed' the rudder as well - when at the same time the launch reversed back the victim - directly into the path of the skiff. THUD!

[Nightwatch]

May have been mentioned before.

 

If you are rich enough, and you can tell which rowers are, you can employ someone to sit in the back facing the front to tell if you're going to hit summat. If he's paid lots, he'll tell you in time to do something about it.

 

Martyn

[Hawkmoth]

As I understand it it was a single sculler so not that long or difficult to change course.

 

So basically you are saying a rower is never to blame for any collision?

 

I also thought the Give Way Zone was between dead ahead and 112 degrees to either port or starboard. Have I got that wrong?

Just like a cyclist then.

Bob

[FadeToScarlet]

I have always understood the rudder in these racing skiffs was not for the cox to turn the boat as such, but more for 'trimming' to go in a straight line to compensate slight differences in rowing power each side of the boat.. Any significant turning action was by calls to the rowers on one side to increase or reverse power.

 

Depends on the river and the competence of the cox, as well as how they've been coached. Around here, I use the rudder to steer, as it's narrow, busy and twisty and I want to be in full control. If we're racing on, for example, the Thames tideway, then the stream does the steering for you, if you're in the right place on the river, and you can just put tiny inputs in from the rudder to make slight adjustments if needed.

[Sir Nibble]

Yes. Motorised craft give way to rowing and sailing boats. Rowing boats give way to sailing boats.

 

Mind you not easy to do when in Junior's case he was stopping and trying to moor up.

 

Actually a long racing rowing boat is not that easy to turn as you might think. The long slender shape makes them stable and fast running through the water but just like a stretched limo harder to turn/corner.

I was under the impression that "power" is not mentioned and vessels "propelled by machinery" being able to steer in any direction should give way to sailing vessels which are constrained by the wind. As I understood it a rowing boat is free to make way in any direction and oars are, albeit man powered, machinery.

[ditchcrawler]

One of the rowers on the Bridgewater has a small mirror attached to his hat which means he can see us coming, so no not difficult.

I have seen that a few times, its even called a Cox Mate http://coxmate.com.au/spares-and-accessories/mirrors/cap-mounted-sculler-s-mirror-detail.html

[PeterG]

 

The boats in Oxford were definitely sculling:

 

 

Richard

 

That is definitely the venetian style which appears to have picked up some support. I have seen this group a number of times in Oxford and they appear to be competent compared to some of the trainee rowers on the river with them.

[churchward]

As I understand it it was a single sculler so not that long or difficult to change course.

 

So basically you are saying a rower is never to blame for any collision?

 

I also thought the Give Way Zone was between dead ahead and 112 degrees to either port or starboard. Have I got that wrong?

You are reading too much into what I typed regarding give way. But just like if you hit someone else up the rear in a car you have to have a pretty good reason why you hit it otherwise the blame is going to be on you rather like if a motor boat hits a sail or rowing boat. Even so someone in a large heavy metal boat needs to take care around other smaller and much more fragile craft.

 

That is not to say that folk in small boats and canoes are always right and behave correctly either. We all make mistakes from time to time and there are always the few who are just irresponsible. I remember when going along the Trent to get to the Soar there were a lot of canoes about and one (there's always one I guess) seemed to determined to provoke a reaction from me by crossing and recrossing in front of my boat each time a little closer. I just starred at him and kept a steady course. Thankfully the leader of the group noticed and shouted at the lad to stop it.

 

Even a single scull boat is quite long compared to it beam and not hugely manoeuvrable but before you take that as saying the collision with Junior was not the rowers fault or that if he could not avoid hitting him. I was not there so can't truly say but from what Junior says it sounds like the rowers fault.

[Jerra]

These are sprint Canoes known as High Kneelers most Canadian canoes you sit on a thwart or yoke and the paddle would be shorter

Are we talking open canoes or the decked competition canoes/ As the last C1 I had anything to do with (admittedly over 40 years ago) you knelt and slid your knees under restraints so that you were feeling the boat and you as a single unit. In the same way you brace yourself in a kayak so that the hull responds to your hip movement.

 

Things may have changed in the nearly half century.

[max's son]

jerra

 

Yes slalom and whitewater racer Canadian you kneel in the cockpit with leg straps

I used to paddle these back in the 70-80s

[Theo]

Some scullers do have mirrors.

 

The appropriate action in this situation is to bellow loudly "Ahead Scull" (or "Ahead pair", four, or 8 as appropriate). I also have a human powered foghorn to attract attention. This is because I am quite keen not to sink the GB squad when they are training near Ely in the winter!

 

The lookout is called a cox, and controls the rudder (and gives instructions to the crew).

 

A pair or a four may not have a cox (and they are then called a light pair or light four). The bowman controls the rudder using one of his feet

 

In sculls (single, double, quad or octuple ie 1,2,4,8 people) each oarsperson has two oars, one in each hand.

 

In pairs, fours and eights each oarsman has just one oar.

 

So now you know...

Odd how fashions in rowing change. When I was at school single sculls were common, double rare and quad hardly ever seen.

 

In boats for rowing oars alternated from the bow, whose oar was to starboard (or bow side) to stroke whose oar was to port (or stroke side). The commands to get under way were "Come forward! Are you ready?! Row! The "Come forward!" command was particularly inappropriate because, to a man (very rarely woman, in those days) they would all bend their knees and slide aft!

 

It was all very strange.

 

Then I went to the Warsash Nautical College and was told "Give way! Together!"

 

Ho hum...

Edited August 26, 2016 by Theo
So that it makes sense

[Jerra]

Odd how fashions in rowing change. When I was at school single sculls were common, double rare and quad hardly ever seen. Oars alternated from the bow, whose oar was to starboard (or bow side) to stroke whose oar was to port (or stroke side). The commands to get under way were "Come forward! Are you ready?! Row! The "Come forward!" command was particularly inappropriate because, to a man (very rarely woman, in those days) they would all bend their knees and slide aft!

 

It was all very strange.

 

Then I went to the Warsash Nautical College and was told "Give way! Together!"

 

Ho hum...

Surely if the oars were alternated then it wasn't sculling. As I remember from the 60s sculling required each person to have 2 oars.

[FadeToScarlet]

Odd how fashions in rowing change. When I was at school single sculls were common, double rare and quad hardly ever seen. Oars alternated from the bow, whose oar was to starboard (or bow side) to stroke whose oar was to port (or stroke side). The commands to get under way were "Come forward! Are you ready?! Row! The "Come forward!" command was particularly inappropriate because, to a man (very rarely woman, in those days) they would all bend their knees and slide aft!

 

It was all very strange.

 

Then I went to the Warsash Nautical College and was told "Give way! Together!"

 

Ho hum...

It's coming forwards relative to the rowers; backstops being towards the front of the boat, and frontstops towards the back (!)

 

It's a bit different now, in terms of commands. If I were taking an eight off normally, it'd be:

 

All eight backstops.. Paddling on, steady state... Ready, go!

 

Then they all tap down, feather the blades, come forwards, place the blades in, and then start off.

 

Starting from frontstops is normally reserved for racing starts, or a couple of technical drills.

Edited August 25, 2016 by FadeToScarlet

[howardang]

Odd how fashions in rowing change. When I was at school single sculls were common, double rare and quad hardly ever seen. Oars alternated from the bow, whose oar was to starboard (or bow side) to stroke whose oar was to port (or stroke side). The commands to get under way were "Come forward! Are you ready?! Row! The "Come forward!" command was particularly inappropriate because, to a man (very rarely woman, in those days) they would all bend their knees and slide aft!

 

It was all very strange.

 

Then I went to the Warsash Nautical College and was told "Give way! Together!"

 

Ho hum...

 

 

Or "Give Way, Port", or "Give Way, Starboard" depending on the boats heading. It complies with the standard orders in the Lifeboat Handbook.

 

Howard