Tragic event at Leigh near Wigan

[MtB]

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

weren't there campaigns some years back to fence off canals 

 

I'm pretty sure they were all fenced orf back in the day, to keep the public out.

 

Just like the railways are now. 

 

 

[pearley]

15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You do wear an auto lifejacket in cold weather DON'T you ?

I wear mine whenever moving the boat, out on the River or just across to the services. 

17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Another example of why there should be barriers installed along the canal, between the water and the towpath.

Doesn't stop drunks from throwing themselves into the water. 

I seem to recall some years ago there were a spate of deaths in the River Aire through Leeds with calls for it to be fenced. Except it already was. 

[magpie patrick]

17 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

weren't there campaigns some years back to fence off canals 

When Bath Deep Lock was built in the 1970's (two locks combined with a fall of nearly 20 feet) the chamber was fenced off. When the first boat was cilled the fire service cut the fencing away to get at it - and told BW in no uncertain terms not to put it back. 

 

On the subject of cold I am beginning to feel my age - I love live football by which I mean being at the ground - however I've sold out and from now until March evening games will (mostly) be on Sky Sports viewed from the sofa grandstand with a radiator and a fleecy blanket, I take far too long to get warm again these days. 

[ditchcrawler]

13 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

In general I only wear a lifejacket on tideways, however about 15 years ago I was up on the GU near Apsley and I'd been frozen in for a few days. There was a bit of a thaw so I decided to get going. At the first lock I was walking across the gates which still had a layer of ice on the top and I realised how easy it would be to slip on the ice and fall in. Being single handed early in the morning nobody would know, so I went inside and grabbed a lifejacket. At least it gives you a better chance of getting out.

Like you I don't wear one, but I would if I was single handing

[LadyG]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Like you I don't wear one, but I would if I was single handing

Absolutely, but have no illusion, one partner, male or female will not be able to haul out another person who is cold wet and chilled. They will be able to call for assistance. I don't carry a waterproof phone, but I do have a whistle, it's on my lifejacket. A torch might be useful.

[Paul C]

Its an interesting scenario. In days gone by, if it were "preserve historic infrastructure as-is" vs "progressive health and safety" it would have clearly been to preserve what we have inherited from the canal era, as a historic attraction. With the waning (so it appears) public and government support for canals, maybe its time some of the less appreciated ones were filled in or otherwise neutralised.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

Its an interesting scenario. In days gone by, if it were "preserve historic infrastructure as-is" vs "progressive health and safety" it would have clearly been to preserve what we have inherited from the canal era, as a historic attraction. With the waning (so it appears) public and government support for canals, maybe its time some of the less appreciated ones were filled in or otherwise neutralised.

I think this is what the Parry bloke was getting at in the interview where there were no boats in the background. 

 

To some he might be a symptom of 'useless management' which is an incredibly simplistic way to view the current funding problems or he might actually know his shit. 

 

 

 

[Cheshire cat]

Our boat club gained a dry dock courtesy of HS2. The edge of the dock is fenced off to prevent people falling in. A bit of a problem if you want to work on your boat. 

[Joe Summers]

On 30/11/2023 at 14:34, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Another example of why there should be barriers installed along the canal, between the water and the towpath.

Total tosh, boaters fall in occasionally but rarely. How on earth would I slowly bring my 66' narrowboat alongside, carefully step off holding the centre line and bring my boat to a stop with a barrier along the edge. Better CRT sort out the atrocious condition of most towpaths to make them less hazardous.

[Captain Pegg]

39 minutes ago, Joe Summers said:

Total tosh, boaters fall in occasionally but rarely. How on earth would I slowly bring my 66' narrowboat alongside, carefully step off holding the centre line and bring my boat to a stop with a barrier along the edge. Better CRT sort out the atrocious condition of most towpaths to make them less hazardous.

Keep reading, you’ll see it was tongue in cheek. Not that you’re the only person to bite.

 

As for towpaths I’d be amazed if they aren’t in the best overall condition they’ve been in since long before the demise of horse drawn boats. That would be in the living memory of everyone on this forum or thereabouts.

[David Mack]

28 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

As for towpaths I’d be amazed if they aren’t in the best overall condition they’ve been in since long before the demise of horse drawn boats. That would be in the living memory of everyone on this forum or thereabouts.

Some of the period photographs @mark99 has been posting on the forum were taken within the lifetime of some of us here and show towpaths in excellent condition.

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Some of the period photographs @mark99 has been posting on the forum were taken within the lifetime of some of us here and show towpaths in excellent condition.

 

And some of the towpaths pre-2000 used to be utterly appalling and are much better now. Not surprising since lots of people on CWDF are perpetually complaining about how much money CART are "wasting" by improving towpaths for cyclists, when in fact this has been paid for by local authorities. For sure the ones in many places round here are far better than they were, but equally obviously this doesn't apply everywhere.

 

If you want to see how much has changed watch "Nairn Across Britain" where he went over the L&L in 1972 -- for example, Skipton has been totally transformed, as have many other stretches (including towpaths).

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01rwfkm

 

"First transmitted in 1972, Ian Nairn travels by boat along the canal across the Pennines looking at the industrial area of the North
The canal journey begins at Worsley and continues through Leigh, Wigan Chorley, Blackburn, Burnley, through the Foulridge tunnel, past Skipton, Bingley, Saltaire, and into Leeds. The canal-side towns fall under Nairn's critical eye and he asks 'why ignore the canals when they could revitalise a whole slice of the industrial North?'"

 

Indeed... 😞

Edited December 5, 2023 by IanD

[Captain Pegg]

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Some of the period photographs @mark99 has been posting on the forum were taken within the lifetime of some of us here and show towpaths in excellent condition.

Taken in places were there was still a decent amount of trade, albeit not horse drawn in general. Accounts of the Oxford aren’t too great at that time. Mind you some of it isn’t great today. It’s just about the only place I’ve seen recently that doesn’t seem to have had improvements.

 

Realistically in the time that anyone on this forum has been boating have they ever been better overall?

[David Mack]

Just now, Captain Pegg said:

Taken in places were there was still a decent amount of trade, albeit not horse drawn in general. Accounts of the Oxford aren’t too great at that time. Mind you some of it isn’t great today. It’s just about the only place I’ve seen recently that doesn’t seem to have had improvements.

 

Realistically in the time that anyone on this forum has been boating have they ever been better overall?

 

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

And some of the towpaths pre-2000 used to be utterly appalling and are much better now.

Absolutely. The low point of towpath condition would have been around 1970 ish. I can remember lengths of the GU and North Stratford near I grew up where the towpath had entirely disappeared right up to the roots of the towpath hedge, and the choice was either to walk through shallow water where the towpath had once been or to divert through the hedge and walk through the adjacent field. 

Around 1973 BW started a programme (in our area at least) of sheet piling the edge and dredging the channel, dumping most of the dregings behind the piling. The result was a horrible gloopy soggy mess between the piling and the hedge, which took about a year to dry out, and settled irregularly. But over time this morphed into the towpaths we have today. 

My worry now is that this piling is now about 50 years old, and you can already see places where it has rusted through at water level. I can't see the funds being available to repeat the job, but it is going to be needed in some areas in the years ahead.

[Captain Pegg]

I remember that you had to wear wellies to walk the towpath in rural areas the 70s and 80s otherwise you got wet feet. Some places weren’t sensibly passable.

[PeterScott]

11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

...The low point of towpath condition would have been around 1970 ish. I can remember lengths of the ... North Stratford ... where the towpath had entirely disappeared right up to the roots of the towpath hedge, and the choice was either to walk through shallow water where the towpath had once been or to divert through the hedge and walk through the adjacent field. 

Around 1973 BW started a programme (in our area at least) of sheet piling the edge and dredging the channel,...

 

7Apr1993 on the Northern Stratford, south of Brandwood Tunnel

 

and further south

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Realistically in the time that anyone on this forum has been boating have they ever been better overall?

 

Agree - the tow paths are the best I've seen in 40 years of boating, it is unfortunate that their improved condition is not repeated in the infrastructure for the rest of the system

[Ronaldo47]

On my first canal holiday in 1976, the towpath between Braunston and Fenny Compton was best described as discontinuous. When the weather was fine, most of the crew liked to walk along the towpath, which was often faster than the boat,  but we periodically had to stop and pick them up whenever the towpath disappeared. In one case, the edge of the towpath on which someone was standing waiting for the boat, literally disappeared from beneath him, resulting in him sitting up to his waist in the green stagnant canal water of that year's drought.   

 

A start had been made on piling, but in some places it either hadn't yet been backfilled, or had been filled with mud that wasn't yet solid enough to walk on.  The gangplank was often needed when mooring up due to the presence of underwater collapsed towpath debris.  Things are much better today.

[nealeST]

7 hours ago, IanD said:

First transmitted in 1972, Ian Nairn travels by boat along the canal across the Pennines

Interesting, never seen this before. I just watched it after reading your post. Thanks! 52 years on…he makes a strong point…town planners completely turned their backs on the canals, as though they just wanted to forget and erase the memory of how the towns came about. Some hideous contemporary architecture presented in the film though so just as well on reflection they left well alone. I hope they are pulling those eyesores down now in those towns ….luckily they never had the cash in Liverpool to do too much damage…and some of the worst 60’s stuff has been bulldozed. They wanted to fill the Albert Dock in, demolish the warehousing and build a skyscraper….

[Heartland]

Fencing off towpaths is a do-gooder sort of suggestion. Why not take it further fence off all rivers as well?

 

In reality fencing off towpaths will hinder fishing, mooring of canal craft and generally cause problems for navigation.

 

May be the do gooder want to close all waterways and convert the all paths, into high speed cycle paths !

[magnetman]

Yes I think that is the general strategy. 

 

Cyclists and Ramblers Trust. 

 

 

 

I can see a potential scenario where the CRT get fed up with having to deal with towpaths, which are after all obsolete (clue is in the name), and hand them to local authorities who then erect fencing.

 

It could happen. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by magnetman

[Mike Tee]

I hope they don’t treat it as you are not supposed to burn it.

[magnetman]

Oh yes people take a fence. 

 

I guess the idea will be something like a 1.2m steel railing type. 

[Mike Tee]

Instant mooring points, a bit like Armco. Just have to learn to do a standing 1.2 metre hurdle off the back deck - I can see a lot of incidents coming up on YouTube!

[kevinl]

Maybe they do the same on roads, stop people wandering in front of the cars and trucks and getting killed that way too, just  a thought!

K