Tragic event at Leigh near Wigan

[magnetman]

Its actually very common for water to be separated from land by fencing. 

 

Like this at Canary Wharf for example.. 

 

I can't see the Boats properly but I also can't fall in easily. 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

51 minutes ago, kevinl said:

Maybe they do the same on roads, stop people wandering in front of the cars and trucks and getting killed that way too, just  a thought!

K

They do it with trains now

[magnetman]

Yes just this week fencing has been completed at Maidenhead station to prevent passengers arriving on the stopping trains from London from accessing the platform where the express trains TO London, which don't stop, pass through. 

 

Lots of elfin safety. 

 

 

And of course a lot of railway lines have had the palisade fencing added to prevent unauthorised access. 

 

Canals could be next. Watch this space. 

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Yes just this week fencing has been completed at Maidenhead station to prevent passengers arriving on the stopping trains from London from accessing the platform where the express trains TO London, which don't stop, pass through. 

 

 

Some stations simply have  WARNING sign

 

 

 

[kevinl]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

They do it with trains now

No chance they can do it with pubs too?

K

[Pluto]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

They do it with trains now

Not in Germany, surprisingly as they tend to fence off locks, though mainly the larger ones. The lack of fencing on European railways is in stark contrast to the UK. I suspect it is down to how land was/is managed and any right to roam legislation.

[kevinl]

I fell in a few months back, getting of a boat I've now bought as opposed to the one I've for ever and the panic on their faces 

[magnetman]

12 minutes ago, Pluto said:

Not in Germany, surprisingly as they tend to fence off locks, though mainly the larger ones. The lack of fencing on European railways is in stark contrast to the UK. I suspect it is down to how land was/is managed and any right to roam legislation.

Yes I was surprised visiting Dijon that one can walk along the TGV railway line as if it was a footpath. Totally open.

 

I suppose another consideration is the distance. France is a large country so fencing orf all the railway lines would be incredibly expensive.

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Yes I was surprised visiting Dijon that one can walk along the TGV railway line as if it was a footpath. Totally open.

 

I suppose another consideration is the distance. France is a large country so fencing orf all the railway lines would be incredibly expensive.

 

 

 

Health & safety  in France in my experience is very much based on 'if you are stupid enough to do something that potentially will kill or seriously injure you, then bat on'. But don't come looking for compo.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MJG said:

 

Health & safety  in France in my experience is very much based on 'if you are stupid enough to do something that potentially will kill or seriously injure you, then bat on'. But don't come looking for compo.

Just like they only put a notice on the electrical pylons, if you want to climb them its your lookout 

[kevinl]

16 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just like they only put a notice on the electrical pylons, if you want to climb them its your lookout 

Warning tall people duck your head?

K

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, magnetman said:

And of course a lot of railway lines have had the palisade fencing added to prevent unauthorised access. 

It has been a legal requirement in the UK that railway lines are fenced, since the early days of railways. Originally just simple fences to keep livestock off the line, but in urban areas security fencing is increasingly used to stop trespassers.

[Ronaldo47]

And level crossing gates either had to be close-barred or else fitted with wire mesh.  That is, until they started replacing conventional hinged gates by lifting barriers.  

[Captain Pegg]

Fencing of all railway lines in Britain is enshrined in case law in modern times.

 

The pertinent case being one where a child was killed by a train while using a short cut that had been created by damaging a fence and this had been done repeatedly until such time as no effort to repair it was made.

 

Not a modern H&S ruling but something that dates back over half a century.

 

In Europe all high speed lines are fenced. In rural areas this is largely due to the risk of animal incursion.

 

ETA - that applies in Scotland which has laws in access perhaps more akin to mainland Europe than to England & Wales. There are no designated “footpath crossings” in Scotland. That law presumably also applies to Northern Ireland which in general has a different legal framework relating to railways than that of Great Britain.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[cuthound]

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Some stations simply have  WARNING sign

 

 

 

 

On the Jubilee Line in London they have even fenced off the stations.

 

[magnetman]

The under ground Crossrail stations as far as Paddington (going west before it exits the tunnel) have the same double doors system. I did spot something interesting with them which is that there is a light beam controlling door closure. If someone is in the door area they won't close.

 

Good for safety and explains the request not to leave rubbish on the trains because a stray maccy D bag could block the beam and the doors would never close.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by magnetman

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, David Mack said:

It has been a legal requirement in the UK that railway lines are fenced, since the early days of railways. Originally just simple fences to keep livestock off the line, but in urban areas security fencing is increasingly used to stop trespassers.

 

Probably because the first person to get run over by a train was an MP.

 

https://www.historytoday.com/first-fatalities#:~:text=On September 15th%2C 1830 the,die in a railway accident.

[manxmike]

Bring back the law that had a man walking in front of motor vehicles waving a red flag - that would reduce road accidents to an almost acceptable level.

[robtheplod]

2 minutes ago, manxmike said:

Bring back the law that had a man walking in front of motor vehicles waving a red flag - that would reduce road accidents to an almost acceptable level.

almost being when the chap stops to tie his shoelaces!

[Cheese]

On 18/12/2023 at 22:58, David Mack said:

It has been a legal requirement in the UK that railway lines are fenced, since the early days of railways. Originally just simple fences to keep livestock off the line, but in urban areas security fencing is increasingly used to stop trespassers.

But also because in parts of the UK you can be killed just by walking on the line, even when there are no trains running. (Something which overseas visitors, or even those from other parts of the UK, don't realise).

[Graham Davis]

5 hours ago, Cheese said:

But also because in parts of the UK you can be killed just by walking on the line, even when there are no trains running. (Something which overseas visitors, or even those from other parts of the UK, don't realise).

Incorrect. 
Nearly every Enabling Act of Parliament, required for nearly every railway line in the country, required the route to be fenced. It has nothing to do with electrified lines.

[Tigerr]

On 18/12/2023 at 15:51, magnetman said:

Yes just this week fencing has been completed at Maidenhead station to prevent passengers arriving on the stopping trains from London from accessing the platform where the express trains TO London, which don't stop, pass through. 

 

Lots of elfin safety. 

 

 

And of course a lot of railway lines have had the palisade fencing added to prevent unauthorised access. 

 

Canals could be next. Watch this space. 

Certain railway stations are suicide blackspots, most typically where suburban lines adjoin express lines.  There has been a programme of installation of fences and other barriers at such stations over recent years, with the aim of enabling staff to spot potential jumpers, arriving on a local train to throw themselves under an express.

Ealing Staion in London is one such place. Maidenhead is possibly similarly afflicted, I don't know but I do know of the programme, and I have seen Samaritans volunteers at the station so suspect it likely.

For the train drivers and emergency services, train jumpers are a truly awful experience - as well as sometimes being a prolonged and ghastly death for the jumpers themselves. 

Canal jumping suicides are something of a rarity, in comparison. 

It may not be quite as simple as you think, or the 'elf and safety' knee jerkers suggest. 

 

Edited February 2 by Tigerr

[magnetman]

5 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

Certain railway stations are suicide blackspots, most typically where suburban lines adjoin express lines.  There has been a programme of installation of fences and other barriers at such stations over recent years, with the aim of enabling staff to spot potential jumpers, arriving on a local train to throw themselves under an express.

Ealing Staion in London is one such place. Maidenhead is possibly similarly afflicted, I don't know but I do know of the programme, and I have seen Samaritans volunteers at the station so suspect it likely.

For the train drivers and emergency services, train jumpers are a truly awful experience - as well as sometimes being a prolonged and ghastly death for the jumpers themselves. 

Canal jumping suicides are something of a rarity, in comparison. 

It may not be quite as simple as you think, or the 'elf and safety' knee jerkers suggest. 

 

 

 

You are right. I quite often get asked by staff at stations if I am 'alright' because I like looking at the tracks. Oddly my family has a very high suicide rate. Maybe these staff members are trained to see these things. I have no intention of following family tradition but the staff may be able to spot things. 

 

I actually had to tell someone at Maidenhead station quite recently that I was not going to jump because he definitely thought I was ! 

 

It is an interesting topic. Displacing the problem of suicide from railways could result in non professional non trained people finding the body. 

 

In the case of a train the driver must know the inevitability of animal and occasional human strikes. There is nothing they can do. One of my uncles used a 12 bore to rearrange his head. 

 

He was found by a random passer by. I wonder how well they dealt with that discovery. Its not ideal. 

 

Its never ideal but preventing railway deliberate deaths may be moving the problem elsewhere. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

5 hours ago, Tigerr said:

Canal jumping suicides are something of a rarity

 

Well yes.  A broken ankle and damp knees is the most likely outcome of jumping off a canal bridge on most parts of the network!

[Captain Pegg]

It’s a common myth that preventing a suicide is merely delaying it. That is not the case.

The fact that there has been a move toward fencing off platforms that are only used during times of perturbation and where trains pass at high speed is due to a combination of risks of allowing access to such. It isn’t just about suicides.

 

I’ve also never directly heard of a specific link to stations with multiple platforms. These happen to be common in locations with high population.