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Tigerr

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Tigerr last won the day on March 14

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  1. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Looks like I cross posted with Carl. Looks like you just posted cross. Nothing new there though Higgs! Anyway, I was really hoping you would tell us about the 'undertones' you are worried about. Very interested to understand what's in your mind.
  2. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Can you explain what you mean by that? Nobody can, it isn't actually coherent - I know the words can be written but they don't connect to reality. They sound good, and probably feel good to type, but the words are not moored. In a way this is yet another example of the disconnects to reality within Brexit. Things are said which seem at a superficial or emotional level to make sense - but don't connect to reality. Like 'Brexit means Brexit', and 'Take back Control'. These soundbites are designed to trigger emotional response - which they do really well - but they only work at that level. When they come face to face with actual reality, legal process, or tangible detail, they evaporate. At that point you either accept or deny reality - and it is clear lots of Brexiteers would prefer to deny reality rather than admit they bought a con.
  3. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    How many voted Leave because they believed in it? I knew people who thought it was funny - and a bit like Boaty Mcboatface!!!!!! Equally valid in each case.
  4. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Higgs, why not spell out what these 'undertones' are you speak of? I think it would be interesting and instructive to see what's lurking beneath the surface in your mind.
  5. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Peter is someone who says upthread, he trusts the media in Turkey more than the BBC. This is someone then who reckons the truth can be found on the TV and press in a repressive regime where hundreds of journalists have been imprisoned, for not supporting the dictatorship, and 'the will of the people' is enforced by balaclava'd blokes with pickaxe handles, beatings, rape, imprisonment and simple good old torture. It is possible he hadn't thought it through. How people end up in such personal rabbit holes of selective perception is anybody's guess, but anyone should weigh Peter's opinions on any topic with this in mind.
  6. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Brilliant. One of the classic 'project fear' tropes comes out from hiding again! The millennium bug was a very real issue and had there not been a massive investment of treasure and time using actual 'experts' to fix it - yes planes would have dropped out of the sky, people would have lost their savings, GPS would have collapsed etc. The problem was identified by people who understood it and knew its potential threat. And the problem was fixed! As a result pretty much nothing happened! To see the millennium bug traduced to suggest it was a 'fake news' thing is to see how alternative truth gets a grip among people for whom emotion trumps fact.
  7. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    The petition website has crashed. Either sheer weight of numbers, or possibly a reaction to sheer weight of numbers? (Aarin Banks techno investments would not be a complete surprise). I think there may be a huge turnout tomorrow, perhaps bigger than the Iraq war one. That should have been a warning to Blair, he ignored it and ended up on the wrong side of history. May is definitely heading that way, and an ignominious memory is surely not what she had in mind when she took on this poison chalice. A demonstration turnout of a million is an indicator of a much bigger, very unhappy constituency, which has been dismissed as 'citizens of nowhere' and effectively disenfranchised by both Tory and Labour's craven fear of speaking truth to the Brexit voters dreams, in pursuit of short term political goals. The only way out of this impasse is to go back to the people, now better informed, and see what they think. It won't stop the damage already wreaked, nor put the authoritarian nationalist genie back in the box but it might win some time to enable a reassessment of the future direction of the UK, without too much loss of people's livelihoods.
  8. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    apologies! My point was directed at Welsh Cruiser. I very much doubt you follow 'mad' Minford. Welsh Cruiser is posting straight out of Minford's stuff. An unfortunate 'friendly fire' incident. Luckily the words bounced off though.
  9. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Ah, you are a fan of Minford the 'economist' of choice for the ERG and personal favourite of mogg the hedge fund multimillionaire. That explains a lot. The future they have in mind is certainly not one they would put on a bus though is it? You are in the specialist interest plain cover magazine section of brexit with these ideas.
  10. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    I lived and worked in Venezuela. It isn't socialism that has caused the misery there. it is a combination of cultural factors like total systemic corruption, appalling education, absence of industry, and complete reliance on the oil price to support an economy in which work was never a popular choice. The 200 rich families used to keep planes fuelled up and pointed at Florida, on the private airstrip in the centre of Caracas. Florida and the Caymans where the money they looted form the economy they owned was stashed. The tragedy in Venezuela is much more complex than simple 'socialism bad/capitalism good' twittery. Singapore is essentially an economy reliant on immigrant paperless rightless poor workers - pretty unpleasant place. Ireland has benefitted hugely by being in the EU of course, and also running a tax cheat for companies. A decent, fair welfare state ought to be the aim of a civil society in which people cared about their fellows. Since such decent politics in the massive UK adjustment post WW2, there has been a steady clawback by the interests of capital owners and the wealth elite, at the expense of the poor. Thatcher led the charge. This has really ramped up since the banks crashed the economy, to the extent that many have been persuaded it was the poorest who caused it and should pay through 'austerity'.
  11. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Loving Farage's 'walk of shame'. Even if he has done a bunk the other 30 or so and 20 photographers are doing an excellent job of showing the mass support. I hope they make it past the next Greggs.
  12. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    If you see the EU as a corruption of democracy, then you must have an idea in your mind of what a 'pure, uncorrupted' democracy is. Can you lay that out? For me, one aspect of an uncorrupted democracy would be consulting the people. That's why I think the peopel should be consulted now that we know what leaving the EU might involve in terms of a deal, what no deal might mean, and how these options compare to remaining. For others though, democracy is conceived as a 'one-time' event, which looks to me a lot like the lip service to democracy that occurs when dictators get elected and then ban elections on the basis that the people have decided and opposition should be silenced. The problems were are facing with e.g. global warming are going to get a lot worse, including migrations and social stress. There are no 'single state' solutions to these problems, they require tackling at international level if global human catastrophe is to be averted. Nationalism, pretending to be democracy, is not 'uncorrupt' it is essentially rotten.
  13. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Crikey Smelly you are leaking bile at the seams now. You are slipping over to the dark side with all the conspiracy loons. Make sure you have your tinfoil hat shaped with a proper spike on the top, is my advice - apparently they don't work if you just shape them round a saucepan. The idea that May is some sort of evil mastermind controlling a network of devilish 'establishment' (aka 'experts') against the pure spirit and patriotic verve of 'the people's will' is sheer nonsense - its the sort of breitbart alt-right gormless drivel that slime like Farage (and the tens 'marching' without him) feed on. Get a grip chum, wake up and recognise the lies you have been told by these people to further their political ambitions. It isn't your fault you have been lied to by charlatans like Farage and wherever else you get your reinforcement from for years and years. But do try and get over this thing in your mind about 'we won you lost', as if democracy stopped then.
  14. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Farage's march is a bit like brexit itself. London is the goal, but they seem to have turned out in all the wrong gear, trainers and stuff when any expert walker could tell them to walk 20 miles a day in poor weather you need more than a barbour and tweed hat. Like Brexit I suspect there will be abandonment by the leaders as soon as the going gets tough, and soundbites and photo ops instead of actual marching. Then they will blame the weather for betraying them. Like brexit they are also paying for the privilege of being extras in the Farage show. Its also just like Smelly's Oates metaphor upthread - doomed expeditions set up to fail from the outset, led by fools.
  15. Tigerr

    Brexit 2019

    Get that pitchfork sharpened and ready your torch!
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