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C&RT To remove waste bins from the L&L (BBC news)


Alan de Enfield

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A council is seeking "urgent discussions" with the Canal & River Trust after a plan was revealed to remove most towpath bins across Yorkshire and the North East.

The charity said it faced "soaring costs" and the move would save money to pay for waterway repairs.

The trust hoped other agencies such as councils could become responsible for providing or maintaining bins.

But Bradford Council described the plan as "a concern" amid its own pressures.

It said cleanliness in the absence of bins would depend on those who walked and cycled on the towpaths carrying litter, or dog mess, away with them.

The charity said it spent £1.4m nationally emptying bins and clearing fly-tipping from canals in 2022.

A statement said the trust already had many miles of canal where it did not provide litter bins, "including many that have achieved Green Flag Award status".

"Where there are proposals to remove bins, we are first seeking local funding options to adequately service the bins and hope that local partners will step up to help."

'Urgent discussions'

A section of the 127-mile (204km) Leeds and Liverpool Canal, with a popular towpath for walkers, joggers and cyclists, runs through the Bradford district.

Bradford Council officers have suggested the local authority might not be able to spare staff to traverse the towpath to empty bins on a regular basis.

"This is obviously of concern to us as it will be to residents so we are seeking urgent discussions with the Canal & River Trust," a spokesperson for the local authority said.

At a recent council meeting, Stuart Russo, a senior technical officer, said the move could put a strain on waste services, which he said were already suffering budget pressures.

"We're happy to look at if we, as a council, can take bins on," he said.

"But if a bin is going to be half an hour down the towpath, I don't think that's something we'll be able to take on."

Marcus Dearden, a Labour councillor for Bingley, said: "People will think these are council bins that are being removed, so it will be us that gets stick from the public."

 

Concern over Canal & River Trust plan to remove bins from towpaths - BBC News

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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  • Alan de Enfield changed the title to C&RT To remove waste bins from the L&L (BBC news)
10 minutes ago, M_JG said:

And why only in that region?

 

Or has it been proposed across the board but just not picked up by other local authorities?

Everyone in Yorkshire knows that were there's muck, there's brass.

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56 minutes ago, M_JG said:

And why only in that region?

 

Or has it been proposed across the board but just not picked up by other local authorities?

 

The towpath bins in my area are emptied by the local council. It seems logical to me as those who use them most are local residents and dog walkers (who pay council tax to the local council) and not boaters who mainly either pay council tax to another local authority or don't pay council tax at all.

Edited by cuthound
To remove a full stop masquerading as a space.
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It does seem odd how people can take packaged products to a location but once the products have been consumed they are not able to take the packaging, which is now much lighter, with them. A particularly odd side of this is that by consuming the contents of the packaging they are increasing the body's ability to perform energetic functions so it would technically be fairly straightforward to carry the packaging back to where they got it from even if it was heavier than previously. 

 

Something wrong here. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

The towpath bins in my area are emptied by the local.council. it seems logical to me as those who.use them most are local residents and dog walkers (who pay council tax to the local council) and not boaters who mainly either pay council tax to another local authority or don't pay council tax at all.

 

Start with the bins and eventually they' work out that all towpaths, including moorings, should be managed by local councils and the navigation authority can concentrate its limited resources on things like navigation priorities. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, magnetman said:

consuming the contents of the packaging they are increasing the body's ability to perform energetic functions so it would technically be fairly straightforward to carry the packaging back to where they got it from even if it was heavier than previously. 

Simply solution is to make the packaging edible.🤨

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No bins is probably better than overflowing bins that don't get emptied.

But, for the last several years CRT has been putting huge effort into increasing the number of people cycling and walking the towpaths but is unwiiling to handle the costs that this inevitably produces. Now money is tight things are really difficult. Maybe its time to concentrate on boaters and serious outdoor walkers rather than the general public who expect urban infrastructure and services......but its a case of getting the bad genie back into the bottle.

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Or giving towpath management to local councils. I know the theory is that they would not touch them with a largepole but things could change as the wellbeing thing kicks in. Once canals properly achieve linear park status there will be all sorts of different business opportunities all of which will need to pay licence fees to whoever is in charge of the towpaths and moorings.

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20 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Or giving towpath management to local councils. I know the theory is that they would not touch them with a largepole but things could change as the wellbeing thing kicks in. Once canals properly achieve linear park status there will be all sorts of different business opportunities all of which will need to pay licence fees to whoever is in charge of the towpaths and moorings.

 

But the days of just turning up in a boat and mooring for free for a night, or 14 nights, will be sadly missed and massively detract from the pleasure of owning a boat with a likely reductioin in boat numbers.

and it was the council in Birmingham who pushed to widen the towpath into the canal to make it better for cyclists. If councils get the towpath then it really is only a matter of time before they start to infill the canals.

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59 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

But the days of just turning up in a boat and mooring for free for a night, or 14 nights, will be sadly missed and massively detract from the pleasure of owning a boat with a likely reductioin in boat numbers.

and it was the council in Birmingham who pushed to widen the towpath into the canal to make it better for cyclists. If councils get the towpath then it really is only a matter of time before they start to infill the canals.

Access to the water is needed for everyone not just fuddy duddies with a good pension and people who want cheap housing .

 

It is a leisure amenity. Hiring canoes, dinghies etc could get popular and of course if there were fewer boats moored to towpaths the place is more pleasant for those who might want to have picnics. 

 

More people using towpaths on foot will deal with the cyclist problem by using force of numbers. 

 

Pedestrians need to reclaim the towpaths and block idiot cyclists. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Cyclists don't use the bins. Fact. We cycle the towpaths and call at cafe's. Some cyclists are a pain in the bum agreed but they don't use bins. Look elsewhere.

I don't think anyone uses the bins much. Dog walkers hang their bags on trees or fences if they bother to pick up at all, everyone else (including fishermen) just drops rubbish as they go or chucks it in the cut. Why should either councils or CRT pay to pick up someone's rubbish? They provide bins at home and collect them.

Maybe if it gets grotty enough people will stop doing it... though the evidence is against it. On the bright side, the broken glass will slow down the cyclists.

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19 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Access to the water is needed for everyone not just fuddy duddies with a good pension and people who want cheap housing .

 

It is a leisure amenity. Hiring canoes, dinghies etc could get popular and of course if there were fewer boats moored to towpaths the place is more pleasant for those who might want to have picnics. 

 

More people using towpaths on foot will deal with the cyclist problem by using force of numbers. 

 

Pedestrians need to reclaim the towpaths and block idiot cyclists. 

 

 

 

But it does not work like that, the pedestrians do not feel safe or happy so just stop using the towpaths, so fewer pedestrians and more cyclists.

An ultimate example is a cycle route in Bristol where not only have the pedestrians given up, but some of the gentler cyclists have too, leaving the high speed cyclists as the main users.

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13 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

But it does not work like that, the pedestrians do not feel safe or happy so just stop using the towpaths, so fewer pedestrians and more cyclists.

An ultimate example is a cycle route in Bristol where not only have the pedestrians given up, but some of the gentler cyclists have too, leaving the high speed cyclists as the main users.

Yes but if people had access to the water they would come, and the effect would be to get rid of the scourge of idiot cyclists. 

 

It can be done but it needs access and amenity value on the water itself such as canoe hire and perhaps a romantic punt ride with a lady. 

 

These things used to happen back in the day. They probably won't happen again and yes the idiots are in charge but one can dream !

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Monetising the towpath is next to impossible as far as I can see. People in the UK are not going to pay per use for walking in the countryside. 

I doubt that fishermen, paddle boaters, people in dinghies (?), or kayaks all pay a licence fee.  Some won't know and some won't bother. I've seen  people out on  inflatables from Aldi, and others larking about in deep water, it's madness.

Who would ask them for their licence, I can't see this doing anything other than creating I'll feeling, or even conflict.

What sort of income are they generating?  They tend to get in the way of boats, and to some extent are a danger to themselves, they are unpredictable and often unaware of others. Difficult to see in tunnels for a start, a narrowboat can't take avoiding action in a tunnel, boats have to hold their course and hope the canoeist or whoever keeps out the way!

Litter has to be minimised, bins must be emptied or they just attract more litter, more fly tipping and it just gets worse and worse. 

I have seen groups of paddle boaters, a commercial venture I think, they are not safe, and I doubt they are aware of the boats around them.

Edited by LadyG
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3 hours ago, magnetman said:

It does seem odd how people can take packaged products to a location but once the products have been consumed they are not able to take the packaging, which is now much lighter, with them. A particularly odd side of this is that by consuming the contents of the packaging they are increasing the body's ability to perform energetic functions so it would technically be fairly straightforward to carry the packaging back to where they got it from even if it was heavier than previously. 

The exception being the products which, at the start of the walk, were 'packaged' within the dog, but have subsequently been packaged in a plastic bag that would ideally be disposed of in a bin at the first opportunity.

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On 25/03/2023 at 16:18, M_JG said:

And why only in that region?

 

Or has it been proposed across the board but just not picked up by other local authorities?

Didn't CRT suggest some years ago they were removing them and people should take their litter home, I don't thing they were referring to boaters rubbish disposal points(they have already decimated them) but since then they have spent a fortune putting bins in around Birmingham

image.png.0846b1a3d4a7852b92397cce4ca64e6f.png

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But it does not work like that, the pedestrians do not feel safe or happy so just stop using the towpaths, so fewer pedestrians and more cyclists.

An ultimate example is a cycle route in Bristol where not only have the pedestrians given up, but some of the gentler cyclists have too, leaving the high speed cyclists as the main users.

 

How is the CRT council organised and do some people have a priority say in CRT business?

There is I person representing Well Being from  "Mind"

 

Cycling is classed as being key to an aspect of well-being but is often forgotten that there is a selfish element within that group 

I see also there is no Fishing representative on CRT Council; Why? 

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Selfish is a diplomatic word. 

 

I could think of ruder ones.

 

The sad thing is that youngsters who might be learning to ride a bike will be intimidated by these odious creatures who have no respect for anyone.

 

It isn't acceptable to let such vermin run the towpaths. People need to get out there in numbers and not jump out of the way of fast cyclists. 

Attitude change needed to get rid of the scum. 

 

Not anti bike at all just anti idiots who will happily risk injury to others just so they can get to their destination one minute faster. 

 

They need to be cleared. 

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On 25/03/2023 at 16:18, M_JG said:

And why only in that region?

 

Or has it been proposed across the board but just not picked up by other local authorities?

I think its happening all over the UK with many councils etc etc. Just up the road here in wonderful New Quay the council said it was closing the beach toilets and removing the litter bins to save money. There has been a right stink ( good eh ) and kick back and when we were there a couple of days ago bins were still there and toilets open. It will be carnage this summer if they are removed :o

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On 25/03/2023 at 16:18, M_JG said:

And why only in that region?

 

Or has it been proposed across the board but just not picked up by other local authorities?

Top paragraph in story i saw said Yorkshire and the North East, it's just become news for the L&L as Bradford Council has complained about it ;)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65075402

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