GUMPY Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 18 years ago when I got Parglena (60x11'6 120hp) it was just about doable. Gave up on the K&A but managed all the rest of the South. I spent most of my time boating on the Thames and out on the East Coast even though I had a mooring up the GU. Decided in 2012 the money was better spent on a house out in the sticks and a smaller boat. Guess what I am saying is its s stupid idea to even consider a boat that size on those waters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, OldGoat said: There are some 'long stay boaters' in Thames marinas - the occasional venture out is to avoid residential status and for me - not to encourage them to actually go out.... Mebe not, as London prices rise "ad astra" folks are looking for alternatives. If 'you' work in London in a well paid job, property is still beyond reasonable reach and - being charitable (today) - I can understand what the OP is attempting. The challenge is he's a bit late in that area! As peterboat points out, to get what he describes is more like £500k not £200k, for which he can buy a nice two bed flat in similar areas to the Thames marinas of which you write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clodi Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I suspect from the OP's comments he wants a houseboat bot not intending to move much. I would suggest he/she look to buy a Dutch Barge and look to professional boat builders of that type. It's an awful lot of money to spend without knowing where he is going to moor the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joe London Posted October 17, 2019 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Again I am thankful for the genuine responses. I can assure you this was never intended as a wind up. I have been a boat owner in the UK and Europe for well over 10 years. I have found the boating scene to be very friendly. I have absolutely no canal or Thames experience other then doing my inland RYA many years ago on the tidal Thames. Based on the responses here it would seem most of the canal users hate the widebeams. I have still not been deterred by some of the negativity on here. Having read some of the canal magazines it would appear that people use widebeams on some of the canals. Waterwaysworld did a 25 page article about them. I didn’t pick up any of this negativity from the article. http://www.waterwaysworld.com/downloads/widebeam_guide.pdf I have sufficient funds to build whatever I fancy. I will not be using it as a houseboat in London. I live in a 6 bedroom house. I would like it as a fixed chill pad, and the ability to occasionally take it out of London, leave it moored up close to the quaint villages I have yet to visit for a few days at a time. When I am away from my home birth I am aware that finding a visitor mooring for a 70 foot will not be easy, hence I want my luxuries and gennie to make it a more pleasant experience and negate the need to be plugged into power. Actual cruising will be very minimal. A google search for Widebeam rental will reveal a company called Moonboats renting widebeams on the K&A. They will rent to anyone without any prior experience (with restricted cruising grounds). According to their website they have 6 plus boats available. If they and the people renting from them can make it work why can’t I? @Alan. Yes It will have a steering wheel with a rudder display and full zeus joystick control linked with both the engine and bow and stern thrusters. Yes I know you don’t need them, however they are incredible pieces of kit. If all the widebeams on the canals had joystick controls the narrowboat users might not hate them as much. Seeing pictures of the inside of the best the narrowboat has to offer vs the widebeams I understand why some of you sound pi**ed off! I have read up fairly extensively on widebeams and it seems some of the newer boat have chimes in the hull to enable them to move through the water with a much reduced wake at cruising speeds. I live in North West London and would meet up for a pint with anyone on here who thinks I am a troll taking the piss. It was a genuine question and the genuine responses are appreciated. Regards Joseph 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam1uk Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 So basically, while thanking people for their comments, you’re going to ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGoat Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Folks on here deride the current style of widebeams not only because of their viual aspect but also because they are awkward to 'drive' and not sutable for any of the southern canals. For your projected size both the GU and K&A wont give you much solitude as the former is now wall to wall boats at the south end and the K&A has poor bank access in some parts Given that if you accept that the Thames (for a starter) is more likely to give you a bolt hole, then might I suggest that you consider switching your allegiance to the 'dutch barge' style of boat, not only for its looks but practicality in use, whether for cruising or crashing out. A central wheelhouse is better for our usual English climate than driving from the stern as in a normal NB. With a 'proper boat shape' you have not only most of the non-tidal Thames, but the Medway and some East Coast locations as well. For all the 'essential' gizmos that you 'need' a DB hull shape has better storage room for the engine / Aircon / generator /w.h.y than a NB derivative. Have a look at the DBA website - there are several DBs on the Thames 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe London said: Again I am thankful for the genuine responses. I can assure you this was never intended as a wind up. I have been a boat owner in the UK and Europe for well over 10 years. I have found the boating scene to be very friendly. I have absolutely no canal or Thames experience other then doing my inland RYA many years ago on the tidal Thames. Based on the responses here it would seem most of the canal users hate the widebeams. I have still not been deterred by some of the negativity on here. Having read some of the canal magazines it would appear that people use widebeams on some of the canals. Waterwaysworld did a 25 page article about them. I didn’t pick up any of this negativity from the article. http://www.waterwaysworld.com/downloads/widebeam_guide.pdf I have sufficient funds to build whatever I fancy. I will not be using it as a houseboat in London. I live in a 6 bedroom house. I would like it as a fixed chill pad, and the ability to occasionally take it out of London, leave it moored up close to the quaint villages I have yet to visit for a few days at a time. When I am away from my home birth I am aware that finding a visitor mooring for a 70 foot will not be easy, hence I want my luxuries and gennie to make it a more pleasant experience and negate the need to be plugged into power. Actual cruising will be very minimal. A google search for Widebeam rental will reveal a company called Moonboats renting widebeams on the K&A. They will rent to anyone without any prior experience (with restricted cruising grounds). According to their website they have 6 plus boats available. If they and the people renting from them can make it work why can’t I? @Alan. Yes It will have a steering wheel with a rudder display and full zeus joystick control linked with both the engine and bow and stern thrusters. Yes I know you don’t need them, however they are incredible pieces of kit. If all the widebeams on the canals had joystick controls the narrowboat users might not hate them as much. Seeing pictures of the inside of the best the narrowboat has to offer vs the widebeams I understand why some of you sound pi**ed off! I have read up fairly extensively on widebeams and it seems some of the newer boat have chimes in the hull to enable them to move through the water with a much reduced wake at cruising speeds. I live in North West London and would meet up for a pint with anyone on here who thinks I am a troll taking the piss. It was a genuine question and the genuine responses are appreciated. Regards Joseph Having read that article, two things really stand out. 1st I see where your ideas have come from. 2nd not one of the boats mentioned was "Road tested". The article authors, have no idea if the boats actually move! Let alone, do they go straight if no hand is on the tiller/wheel, how quickly or not, do they stop, from a normal cruising speed. Nor are any of the systems for heat/light/cooking, tested, either at the permanent mooring, or out for many days cruising. Or the raising and lowering of the wheel houses, a very common job due to the shape of many arched bridges, can one person do this quickly with out mooring up, or are two or more people and a mooring needed. You mention a hire company that does wide beam hire, I really suggest you do a weeks hire on one, between now and Easter, to better understand some of the points raised. The width of the water is normally given in canal dimensions, no allowance is made for over hanging trees, or under water obstructions. A 12 foot wide boat is not going to pass 6 feet of obstructions in a 16 foot wide canal. Canals may have been built to wide beam sizes, 200 years ago, or altered in the 1930s, but the maintenance to keep them that size has not been kept up. Barely to the size for 2 narrow boats to pass, so for a narrow to pass a wide, in a lot of places it may not be easy, one boat to be aground, the other to scrape passed trees/brambles. Two wide beams, one has to reverse...... Bod 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Joe London said: Seeing pictures of the inside of the best the narrowboat has to offer vs the widebeams I understand why some of you sound pi**ed off! I live on a narrowboat and have done for 25 years....I like to travel the system and I have an appreciation of the history and tradition of the cut. I have no desire for a floating flat...if I ever wanted to limit myself to wide waters...and by that I mean the rivers & navigations of the North.... I’d be looking at a Dutch barge or similar that had coastal ability. Statements like you have made show arrogance that widebeams in the south east are well known for.....perhaps you need to listen to what is being said here from people with vastly more experience than a walk along the cut and a few minutes browsing the web. Edited October 17, 2019 by frangar Grammar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Bod said: ... A 12 foot wide boat is not going to pass 6 feet of obstructions in a 16 foot wide canal. ... A 12 foot wide boat is not going to pass anything much bigger than a canoe in a 16 foot wide canal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Joe London said: Again I am thankful for the genuine responses. I can assure you this was never intended as a wind up. I have been a boat owner in the UK and Europe for well over 10 years. I have found the boating scene to be very friendly. I have absolutely no canal or Thames experience other then doing my inland RYA many years ago on the tidal Thames. Based on the responses here it would seem most of the canal users hate the widebeams. I have still not been deterred by some of the negativity on here. Having read some of the canal magazines it would appear that people use widebeams on some of the canals. Waterwaysworld did a 25 page article about them. I didn’t pick up any of this negativity from the article. http://www.waterwaysworld.com/downloads/widebeam_guide.pdf I have sufficient funds to build whatever I fancy. I will not be using it as a houseboat in London. I live in a 6 bedroom house. I would like it as a fixed chill pad, and the ability to occasionally take it out of London, leave it moored up close to the quaint villages I have yet to visit for a few days at a time. When I am away from my home birth I am aware that finding a visitor mooring for a 70 foot will not be easy, hence I want my luxuries and gennie to make it a more pleasant experience and negate the need to be plugged into power. Actual cruising will be very minimal. A google search for Widebeam rental will reveal a company called Moonboats renting widebeams on the K&A. They will rent to anyone without any prior experience (with restricted cruising grounds). According to their website they have 6 plus boats available. If they and the people renting from them can make it work why can’t I? @Alan. Yes It will have a steering wheel with a rudder display and full zeus joystick control linked with both the engine and bow and stern thrusters. Yes I know you don’t need them, however they are incredible pieces of kit. If all the widebeams on the canals had joystick controls the narrowboat users might not hate them as much. Seeing pictures of the inside of the best the narrowboat has to offer vs the widebeams I understand why some of you sound pi**ed off! I have read up fairly extensively on widebeams and it seems some of the newer boat have chimes in the hull to enable them to move through the water with a much reduced wake at cruising speeds. I live in North West London and would meet up for a pint with anyone on here who thinks I am a troll taking the piss. It was a genuine question and the genuine responses are appreciated. Regards Joseph Hi Joseph, I have a widebeam with wheelhouse, its based up north where the water is wider and deeper, we have a 1000 ton oil tanker come past the mooring once or twice a week! The waterways up here have been maintained for commercial barges so for boats like mine its easy stuff, however once I start venturing onto the Leeds & Liverpool canal its a different kettle of fish, It was built to take large boats but over the years it has deteriorated so whilst I can make the journey from one end to the other its hard work. I would suggest the dimensions you are looking at will be hard work on the K & A which has equal or maybe more deterioration than the northern canals. Make an appointment and view the big Boat at Johnathon Wilsons its a beauty and it will show you what can be achieved Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Joe London said: Based on the responses here it would seem most of the canal users hate the widebeams. Not really. You're not getting it. Its monster-sized boats being brought onto the narrow canals (as you are proposing to do) that most of us object to. Nothing wrong with a widebeam boat on a wide format canal, as peterboat says. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Joe London said: A google search for Widebeam rental will reveal a company called Moonboats renting widebeams on the K&A. They will rent to anyone without any prior experience (with restricted cruising grounds). According to their website they have 6 plus boats available. If they and the people renting from them can make it work why can’t I? I've seen their boats, which from memory are 60' x 10' not 70' x 12'. There's a difference. Having said that I took my 57 x 12' boat all the way along the K&A from Reading to Bristol by myself without it being a problem to anyone. 7 hours ago, Joe London said: Seeing pictures of the inside of the best the narrowboat has to offer vs the widebeams I understand why some of you sound pi**ed off! Yes, get used to that attitude. You clearly understand where a lot of it really originates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dreamer Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 21 hours ago, Joe London said: and would like some assistance from the boating community Look, I’m not going to be critical of your post, or pass judgement on your intentions. However asking this boating forum for advice on what extensively is a floating house, is a bit like asking a monastery full of monks for dating advice! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, The Dreamer said: ..... is a bit like asking a monastery full of monks for dating advice! Just dont make a habit of it. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 22 hours ago, Joe London said: Can anyone recommend a boat builder? Wimpey Homes ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 11 hours ago, Wide boat man said: the k&a was made for 14ft barges as is the Lee and Stort The Lee was built for 14 ft wide barges to Hertford, and wider lower down, but the Stort was only ever built for a maximum width of about 13 ft 6 ins. Narrowboaters are reminded in the guide books not to try and share the Stort locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, David Mack said: The Lee was built for 14 ft wide barges to Hertford, and wider lower down, but the Stort was only ever built for a maximum width of about 13 ft 6 ins. Narrowboaters are reminded in the guide books not to try and share the Stort locks. I've had to pull two boats apart with a Tirfor winch anchored to a ballard in Southmill lock. Recently because of shortages of water on the upper Stort Cart put stickers on lock beams about sharing locks, which you can do with appropriately sized boats but not side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 23 hours ago, Joe London said: I am looking for a boat builder and would like some assistance from the boating community on this forum. I want a builder who has a good track record, a high quality builder, a firm that will stick to the build specifications, a firm that have the ability and willingness to be creative and have the capability to build my dream boat to a high standard yacht finish. Can anyone recommend a boat builder? You forgot to mention how much you are offering in exchange for this consultant? My rate is usually £80 an hour (out of season) Obviously this doesn't cover out of pocket expenses or travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard T Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Being serious Simon Piper builds the sort of boats that you are after. Friends have one and the fit out is superb. It also looks like a proper boat with beautiful curves unlike many wide beams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Richard T said: Being serious Simon Piper builds the sort of boats that you are after. Friends have one and the fit out is superb. It also looks like a proper boat with beautiful curves unlike many wide beams. I bet he doesn't give them away for £200k though! I don't think the OP cn have done ANY research at all into the price of quality boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 The OP actually said "well north of £200k" I think one could get a pretty nice widebeam for that sort of money. Maybe not high quality yacht finish, but last time I looked (a few years ago) a Piper widebeam was certainly available in that price range. Also, I'm not sure if the vat rules have changed since I was last discussing the topic, but a boat if that size might qualify as vat exempt if the builder knows what they're doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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