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Goat chains - the deal is to be bending down and give the goat a chance to butt you in the cut?

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On 11/03/2019 at 10:27, Slim said:

I've got them!

 

When I mentioned them before someone posted a photo of someones. I made mine out of 6mm bar in about 10 minutes each (and I'm no welder). Were I making them again I would use 8mm.

 

No bending, no wet knees.

 

I've never seen them available commercially

I've found someone to weld them up, but as I'm still laid up with a bad back so i can't get there yet.  Can you give me an idea of what length the vertical bit of the T bar is - too long and it would obviously get unwieldy and I haven't got a pin handy to work it out.  Then I can phone him up and get him to knock it up for me.  I'd reckon about 8 inches or 20cm in new money?

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19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've found someone to weld them up, but as I'm still laid up with a bad back so i can't get there yet.  Can you give me an idea of what length the vertical bit of the T bar is - too long and it would obviously get unwieldy and I haven't got a pin handy to work it out.  Then I can phone him up and get him to knock it up for me.  I'd reckon about 8 inches or 20cm in new money?

Just bend over and see how close to the ground your fingers can get before the pain stops you.  Add a couple of inches and you have the length of the T bar!

 

George

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32 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've found someone to weld them up, but as I'm still laid up with a bad back so i can't get there yet.  Can you give me an idea of what length the vertical bit of the T bar is - too long and it would obviously get unwieldy and I haven't got a pin handy to work it out.  Then I can phone him up and get him to knock it up for me.  I'd reckon about 8 inches or 20cm in new money?

Can't measure them as I'm at home and can't drive having had cataract surgery last Friday. The joys of advancing years. :angry: :angry:. However, using a tape I  reckon about 20 inches or 50cm. 20 cm would be very short.  I know that I can prod them through overgrowing grass etc without having to bend unduly. I don't find them unwieldy and they have the added benefit that they can be used to hook mooring lines off the foredeck. The nappy pins I used don't have rings on and they lay perfectly flat on the roof during the day.

 

Frank

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've found someone to weld them up, but as I'm still laid up with a bad back so i can't get there yet.  Can you give me an idea of what length the vertical bit of the T bar is - too long and it would obviously get unwieldy and I haven't got a pin handy to work it out.  Then I can phone him up and get him to knock it up for me.  I'd reckon about 8 inches or 20cm in new money?

I would say the ones I have seen are nearer 15" from the T to the top of the hook 

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I've suggested 20" to the welder and we'll see. It's the guy from Bollington Wharf - a really friendly place and more than helpful. They, and the suggestions here might just have salvaged next week's trip up the Macc, especially as my wife has volunteered to run the locks for me. 

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On 11/03/2019 at 14:53, ditchcrawler said:

Just have to remember to use the right ones, I had a pair of the other type of piling hooks made like that, get them right and they didn't budge, get them wrong and they popped straight out

People on the BCN seem to use a lump of flat bar about 2 foot long and maybe 2" wide with a ring at the top and they just drop them down the back, never seem to come out.

You are right about using them the right way round. I didn't realise this until I used them the wrong way round.

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On 11/03/2019 at 08:06, alan_fincher said:

 

Personally I find "nappy pins" less than 100% reliable, and only use them for short term securing whilst queuing for locks or waterpoints, and reckon that "goats chains" are the only 100% reliable long term method.

 

It's hard to use goats chains though without some crouching or kneeling, (and often a wet grassy stain on one knee!")

Intresting observation on nappy pins, I have always found them easy to use.....but rarely do I stay on the same place for longer than 36-48hrs so never had long term morning issues.   Also if staying overnight or longer I tend to use min 3 nappy pins, use a spring fwd which normally which keeps the boat nice and secure.   

Edited by Dharl
Auto correct!

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2 minutes ago, Dharl said:

Intresting observation on nappy pins, I have always found them easy to use.....but rarely do I stay on the same place for longer than 36-48hrs so never had long term morning issues.   Also if staying overnight or longer I tend to use min 3 nappy pins, set up a few soring normally which keeps the boat nice and secure.   

My experience as well and I only ever use 2, but as you say don't stay in one place more than a day or so.

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Never tried it but how about a garden fork shoved in behind the armco or stamped into the towpath by foot. Nice high handle to yank it out. Tie the ropes low down, just above the fork before use.

Edited by bizzard

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6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Never tried it but how about a garden fork shoved in behind the armco or stamped into the towpath by foot. Nice high handle to yank it out. Tie the ropes low down, just above the fork before use.

If it were to be tried it might be even more likely to work if the rope were to run between the forks before being tied.   I think the fork would be less likely to pull out with the forces low down and more away from the boat.

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14 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If it were to be tried it might be even more likely to work if the rope were to run between the forks before being tied.   I think the fork would be less likely to pull out with the forces low down and more away from the boat.

Not sure. If the boats bollards are a lot higher than the Armco ''they usually are'' then very low down might yank the fork up and out easily,, halfway up the handle might be better, needs experimenting with.  Low down if the fork is stamped into the ground though.

 

15 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If it were to be tried it might be even more likely to work if the rope were to run between the forks before being tied.   I think the fork would be less likely to pull out with the forces low down and more away from the boat.

 

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25 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Not sure. If the boats bollards are a lot higher than the Armco ''they usually are'' then very low down might yank the fork up and out easily,, halfway up the handle might be better, needs experimenting with.  Low down if the fork is stamped into the ground though.

 

 

Sorry I was assuming it was in the full length of the tines.

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51 minutes ago, bizzard said:

  halfway up the handle might be better, needs experimenting with.  

 

 

Think leverage and the effect of having the attachment point above the ground surface 

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21 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Sorry I was assuming it was in the full length of the tines.

The What's ?  Anyway I have a better and more interesting way of doing it.   Velcro, halves stuck to the Armco and corresponding halves stuck to the boat. These could be applied by litter picker to save bending over. Velcro would only need to be re- applied at new mooring places, the stuff on the boat will last a long time.

  The only snag would be the terrible tearing sound when casting off, but decent ear muffs should deal with that. :closedeyes:

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Think leverage and the effect of having the attachment point above the ground surface 

Maybe only if behind Armco, but low down if stamped into the ground as I've stated.

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8 minutes ago, bizzard said:

 

Maybe only if behind Armco, but low down if stamped into the ground as I've stated.

Next time you are doing the garden? Drive the fork in as far as you can, then try pushing the fork over with hour hand an inch above the ground, then try it on the top of the handle. You see loads of people tying their lines to the top of a mooring pin that is sticking 4 inches out of the ground. But you knew that.

 

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11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Next time you are doing the garden? Drive the fork in as far as you can, then try pushing the fork over with hour hand an inch above the ground, then try it on the top of the handle. You see loads of people tying their lines to the top of a mooring pin that is sticking 4 inches out of the ground. But you knew that.

 

But I did say tie the rope on low down if planting the fork into the ground. Anyway a fork has four prongs about a foot long so should hold ok.  Experiments could be carried out cosily indoors  with a bowl full of soil and a table dinner fork and spring balance, spring balance placed at various points along the handle to guage the pull out strength at different heights.

Edited by bizzard

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44 minutes ago, bizzard said:

But I did say tie the rope on low down if planting the fork into the ground. Anyway a fork has four prongs about a foot long so should hold ok.  Experiments could be carried out cosily indoors  with a bowl full of soil and a table dinner fork and spring balance, spring balance placed at various points along the handle to guage the pull out strength at different heights.

I await your results, you will of course be measuring the temperature thought the experiment and also the amount of beer consumed 

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On 11/03/2019 at 08:06, alan_fincher said:

From what I have seen of the many boats local to here that try to moor with a mooring stake dropped into the piling it can be an unreliable method and they oiften come adrift.

 

Some however contrive to also loop the rope down behind the lower part of the stakew, where it emerges below the horizontal bit of the piling.  However to me that would involve more kneeling down and faffing around than "nappy pins" or "goats chains".

 

Personally I find "nappy pins" less than 100% reliable, and only use them for short term securing whilst queuing for locks or waterpoints, and reckon that "goats chains" are the only 100% reliable long term method.

 

It's hard to use goats chains though without some crouching or kneeling, (and often a wet grassy stain on one knee!")

What I want to know is why do CRT always plant nettles just where you want to kneel to fix the goat chains?

 

Howard

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1 minute ago, howardang said:

What I want to know is why do CRT always plant nettles just where you want to kneel to fix the goat chains?

 

Howard

Thats simple, they pay contractors to mow and strim 6 times a year on the canals, so they mow December, January, February, March, disappear when their properly managed contracts require them to do(when the plants are growing), come back in June and maybe September.........

I believe there is also a separate budget called the Parry Pruning that covers the localities of festivals important to CRT.:D

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17 hours ago, matty40s said:

Thats simple, they pay contractors to mow and strim 6 times a year on the canals, so they mow December, January, February, March, disappear when their properly managed contracts require them to do(when the plants are growing), come back in June and maybe September.........

I believe there is also a separate budget called the Parry Pruning that covers the localities of festivals important to CRT.:D

And when you see the strimming guy standing there with tears streaming from his eyes you know he’s found some fresh wild garlic. 

 

Oooh... our patch in the garden is looking ready to harvest some leaves. 

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On 12/03/2019 at 23:32, howardang said:

What I want to know is why do CRT always plant nettles just where you want to kneel to fix the goat chains?

 

Howard

Barkers often lay their eggs adjacent to those nettles too.

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On ‎12‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 19:26, Jerra said:

If it were to be tried it might be even more likely to work if the rope were to run between the forks before being tied.   I think the fork would be less likely to pull out with the forces low down and more away from the boat.

I suspect that a fork with a nice high handle would be a great temptation for those who enjoy loosing off boats.  It would depend on where you were moored.

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On 10/03/2019 at 21:35, Arthur Marshall said:

I've got a short trip planned for next week, but I'm just recovering from serious back trouble, and crouching down is a problem and getting back is worse. Last time this happened on the boat I had to get a passing cyclist to pick the rope and piling hook up for me. 

I usually use nappy pins on the piling, but I've seen boats moored with just a straight pin dropped through the piling, the rope through the ring. How safe is this? It would be a lot easier to lift it out than scrabbling around extricating the nappy pin. 

I had a couple of these made by Denis of Wolverhampton, who used to have a travelling blacksmith's forge on his boat.   They are therefore known as Denises.

I gave them away to the new owner of our josher because they were stamped with the fleet number. So I don't have a picture of them.

They are made from 3/8" x 3" x 2' 6" steel.  One end is curled over and encloses a sturdy mooring ring.  They are brilliant because they just drop down through the armco and are heavy enough to stay in place.

The only problem was that they look so much like fixed mooring rings that boats often used to tie up to them, which was a problem if we wanted to leave early next day.

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2 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

The only problem was that they look so much like fixed mooring rings that boats often used to tie up to them, which was a problem if we wanted to leave early next day.

Just think of the arguments you could cause by untying the boat and leaving ... whoever tied up to it would be very insistent there was a mooring ring there yesterday, and would be utterly baffled it wasn't there the day after!

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