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This thread has made me pause for thought. In my time as a member here, only one poster has truly irritated me. Quite irrational really, because I am sure that in person, we had much in common. But his posting style was combatative, his presence constant. An experten on All... Last heard he moved to the other place and bought a caravan. ??

Let's just get rid of the political threads. They have just made the situation worse by splitting the left and right. Politics will creep into other threads but should be discouraged. Our focus should be on canals surely.

Guilty as charged on being combative, if I have facts to back me up I won't give in just because somebody else shouts louder. Equally if I'm shown to be wrong -- by verifiable facts or expert opinion from somebody who really *does* know what they're talking about -- I'm perfectly happy to admit it and change my mind, that's called education. And as I said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with vigorous discussion about subjects where people hold strong opinions, that's life. What I certainly never do (or try not to) is to resort to name-calling and personal abuse or accusing somebody of being something they're not, because that's a sign that you've lost the argument. But sometimes it all gets a bit too much and I lash out in frustration, because nobody's perfect... ? [I could also point out that restlessnomad's post is a perfect example of playing the man, not the ball...]

Following an incensed outburst of mine last night which has rightly been removed by the moderators, I thought I'd post my reply in the hope that this might prompt a calmer discussion about what I feel is becoming an increasing problem on CWDF. This used to be a friendly place for boaters new and old to ask questions and get answers, and a mine of knowledge about the history of the canals and the boats on them. It's moving towards somewhere much less friendly, where anything that challenges the entrenched views of some results in a shower of criticism which often rapidly descends into schadenfreude and personal abuse -- playing the man, not the ball. And I'm not going to mince words here, it's also clear that most of this comes from a few people who are effectively poisoning the atmosphere on the forum. I'm not so concerned about myself -- I'm a big boy, I can normally take robust argument and even insults without throwing a hissy fit, though recent events explain why I finally blew my top this time. I can deal with this trend by blocking people I find obnoxious, and of course they can do the same to me if they want to. My worry is about the loss to CWDF of both experienced posters and new members due to the way that discussions and in particular personal comments on posts seem to be going. Am I the only one who thinks this is a problem? If not, it would be a shame to see CWDF go the way some other forums have done and die slowly while becoming an angry echo chamber ? Dear Athy I do apologise for this, I was just incensed at some of the personal comments on the thread and boiled over after a couple of beers. There seem to be more and more cases recently of people using personal abuse rather than reasoned discussion to try and "win" what they see as an argument (on many subjects) where they're in the right, and where anyone daring to disagree is obviously morally corrupt and therefore ripe for abuse -- and having spent some time looking back over various threads where this has happened, it's obvious that this mostly comes from a small number of people, I'm sure you know who they are as well as I do (because I've blocked many of them). I can't help feeling that this has not only driven some knowledgeable and experienced posters away from CWDF but is putting off new people joining when their first post is shot down on flames for one reason or another -- and there's even sometimes crowing on the lines of "hah, we taught them a lesson, we've had the last word", which I suspect sadly means they've given up in disgust and gone elsewhere. Which is a shame because there's still a huge amount of knowledge and experience which helpful people on the forum are happy to impart, and people leaving reduce this pool (if they're experienced) or lose access to it (if they're new). CWDF didn't use to be like this when I joined back in 2012, it was friendlier and less combative and abusive. Things seemed to take a turn for the worse before/during/after the Brexit referendum, and have done so again since Covid-19 hit -- maybe the first is a symptom of increased "us and them" division in the country, maybe the second is because some people have more time on their hands to angrily hammer away at a keyboard and tell other people how wrong they are. It would be a shame if this continues, because it could be the start of a long slippery slope with CWDF ending up as a small number of angry people shouting into an otherwise empty echo chamber, who think they've "won" because nobody answers back. I've seen this happen with other Internet forums and discussion groups over the years, and I really hope it doesn't happen to CWDF. Best wishes Ian

You can download the manual from here if you need clearer diagrams. https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/50989992/shire-owners-manual-06-build-33354045-50-pdf-ep-barrus

I now have visions of gearboxes springing across a field...

Maybe when diesels get really old they retire to the canals and just bimble about in slippers burbling on about when they were young in a post office Sherpa.

I read into your post that you don't understand that the water in the engine, under the radiator cap, is totally separate from the water you are drawing in from the river. Consider the engine as being in a car. The cooling system is sealed with a radiator cap, with antifreeze added. The water gets hot and the heat is dissipated to air in the radiator and dumped into the breeze. The boat is the same except that the heat is transferred in the heat exchanger matrix to the raw water from outside and dumped overboard. TD'

I think it depends on which aspects of the forum you frequent. Personally I tend to stick to technical subjects, and in those I haven’t really noticed a deterioration. There has always been an element of lack of patience with new posters, I don’t think this has got worse. What has perhaps got worse is the prevalence of new posters whose first post might be something like “I’ve just bought a boat to live on but the engine isn’t working, what is wrong with it?” and they then get a bit grumpy when asked for details. In other words, an increase in “entitlement” from new posters. IMO it is completely pointless visiting the political threads unless one’s sole aim is to have an argument for the sake of it. Political views are entrenched, and yes increasingly so since Brexit. You ain’t going to get anyone to change their views so it is pointless to try.

Please don't stop -- I love your rubbish, it's not only funny (and not abusive...) but makes more sense than some of the rest of the posts ?

Hi all new meme we and boater, I require a skipper for a narrow boat from London to Hallingbury end of August any recommendations??

I suggest you ask the mods to ban Thunderboat, then you would be happy. Oh wait a minute, they can’t. How annoying and frustrating for you that you can’t silence people you don’t approve of! You might just have to get over it. I expect you don’t like those pesky immigrants either, who come over here and stir things up. I seem to recall there is a name for that sort of thing.

If you mapped those posts over time you’d see them trending to zero. TB was born out of the fallout on CWDF so it’s no surprise it was talked about. Lots of water under the bridge since then and most people that are on both post without problem. There’s a few on both who seemingly can’t let it go, but that’s not helpful to anyone. If you don’t like the place and you are not a member, simply don’t go there. JP

You would.

By Heck! Th'a likes a challenge dun't thee? TD'

Half Term is not until the last week of October

I don't get the blocking thing. Join a discussion forum, you'll hear different views on things, that's what it's all about, surely? My best guess is that those who block people are regular Guardian or Daily Mail readers, who rarely read anything else.

Who said that...

I think that is the crux of the problem, inexperienced hirer in a situation that they were not prepared or trained for.

Not if the boat is under cover in a dock with a painter who knows what they are doing.Those I work with do so all year round.

We had our last boat painted at a similar time of year, so as long as it’s done in a temperature controlled environment you should have no issues

i have used things for sale many times on here and had some great bargains and some not so good .i have even got rid of stuff i thought would be usefull to others ,but when i do try and add some thing to a tread .i am pulled up abt my spelling full stops my grammer which as turned in to insults even .not every one can compose replys like most on here .well i can not for one .,and no i am not looking for..oh aint that a shame you can shove that .canal world as been very helpful to me and many others ,when i do read stuff on here and i think i should reply to it, but i dont .threads start of all good but soon slide down hill in time that as allways been the case. oh while im here some boater went by two days ago and they where very great .full of the two tons of logs i gave them .so they have gone ,while we were chatting i asked them if they used this place .there reply never ever dreadful place any way stay safe

I missed it too, would be nice to have a special section where those with strong stomachs can see all the removed posts ? I missed it because I was busy boating. Circumstances caused us to spend the morning moored at the water tap, several hire boats had to come alongside to get water, non complained, I think they enjoyed it. Then did some boating sharing locks with "strangers". Quite hard boating as needed to let a lot of water down to sort empty pounds, a hire boater helped. Then went for a few beers on the boat we had shared the locks with, real world boating is much nicer than the forum. ...............Dave

Yes, I blew up, and I apologised for it. At least the blow-up was a direct Anglo-Saxon invitation to go forth and multiply, not accusing people of malice ? Again you're playing the man, not the ball -- please comment on the case I've put forward, not your personal opinion of me or what I've said or done. This method of attacking people is *exactly* what leads to many of the raging arguments I'm talking about.

You could be right but you could also accept the explanation and move on, or of course have a polite and open discussion with the OP. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes

I'm a relatively new member. When I joined I was quite shocked at the level of vitriol shown in some posts and the bad tempered attitude of some. The old regularly comment on the lack of manners in the young but here it often appears to be the other way round - some members who have obviously been cruising many years appear to have forgotten they once did not know everything and delight in being grumpy old folks. It took me awhile to realise there was another side of the coin, namely the huge amount of high quality practical help some members are willing to provide day after day. Every forum lives or dies dependent on its ability to recruit and retain new members. It would be good if some could remember this and be a little less argumentative for the sake of it.

I used to post heaps of rubbish on ere, but most of my fans seem to have gorn , It is quite boring now.

Please see post #6 I'll be doing it in short stages over a year or more, as I said in post #1.

The hope is that people will be responsible and think of the needs of others. Some will, some won't. Any amount that will is better than nothing. A friend of mine does washing machine repair, in people's homes. He's doing everything he can to keep himself and his customers safe. A couple of weeks ago he was called to a house for a repair. While he was there, the old man living there started coughing a lot. My friend asked if he was ok, and the man said "don't worry, I've just got that conavirus thing". My friend was taken aback and said "aren't you supposed to be self-isolating?" His reply: "I am self isolating". The amount of stupidity on display over the last few months is truly astounding. But we're all getting off the subject. Any more pub recommendations? Useful info, thanks. You make a good point about time of day. Maybe a mid-afternoon visit would be a better idea for me. Of course, you would hope that their systems would improve over time. The first day of opening was always going to be tricky. My concern is that it will go the other way and people will get complacent. That's why shutting some pubs down is probably a good thing overall.

Got my 9mm ply floor with Birch ply strips fitted on the boat today.