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It might come as a bit of a surprise for some folk to see the kind of accommodation that is offered to those who become homeless, whether or not it is officially 'deliberate'. (It can be well below any decent standard) Despite the occasional story to the contrary, the state does not give 'hand outs' not give a helping hand lightly. I've never been in such a situation and I thank God so very often that that is thew case as the line between a comfortable life and one which is definitely not so, is often very thin and one can so easily go down the qwrong road.

Talking generally, some people are too proud or untrusting to ask or even accept help and just try to get buy, maybe even living in a boat that is ultimately going to sink. What ever is done will cost society money, wether it is emergency accommodation, or money to help with mooring and licensing. It is sad that this case has come to this and some compassion for his situation is the decent thing to have. Driving him off the waterways to where we no longer see him does not solve the problem, it only hides it and allows us to pretend that all is well in society. It isn’t.

Compassion! Sadly too rare on this forum.

I don't remember any of that!

Of course it doesn't, however ……. The traumatic experience of having a battery explode in your face …... The continuous pain and physical discomfort …….. The psychological effect …….. Post Traumatic Depression …….. Lack of ongoing personal self belief ……. Distrust of society in general due to lack of ongoing support leading to paranoia …….. Possibly self medicating ……. ……..…. any or some of which are likely to. The very fact you ask the question displays you have not experienced anything like it, I'm pleased (for you ) to say. This man appears to be in no state to be living on his own, unobserved by the system claiming to help him. As has been said already, he is in no state to care for himself, sadly he want to be left alone, which is impossible. I wish a situation like this could be solved or stopped from being repeated by asking such a simple question as "does only having one eye stop a person being employed?" or making a glib comment like "CaRT need to get these type of boaters off the system ASAP" on a public forum. I pay my bills and stick to the rules I expect others to do the same, C&RT have allowed an unlawful situation to occur and are now facing the backlash, but trying to shame unemployed/one eyed/ unwell people is worse.

Heard earlier today on the Grape Vine that Brian Holden , Secretary of the Rochdale Canal Society has died. A sad loss, without the determination of this one person the Rochdale canal would probably not yet have been restored. He was in fine fettle a few weeks ago as he drove over from Rochdale to visit my Father in Rawtenstall.

Antisocial doesn't mean ill, nor does aggressive behaviour, deliberately breaking the law or, in fact, generally acting like a pratt. Nor does refusing to buy a licence or making the place look untidy. Doesn't stop it being antisocial though, in that it just doesn't fit with our social norms. Those who refuse to comply with those norms can't really complain about how society reacts unless they do, in fact, have good reasons for such behaviour - such as illness.

Haha, I am actually on my way to pick prince up now.. Though Yeo is not the fastest boat so the journey from London to Wheaton ashton will take a little while. I am really looking forward to finally having Prince and to doing some winter cross-straps practice. For me there isnt really any 'home' to take prince to either, just keep moving round, but I will b around birmingham this winter and shall get him out soon enough and see whats going under the waterline.

No, I never had a problem either in truth, and don't suppose many others did either as the draw would take any accidents up the chimney. Elf 'n Safety would be having none of it nowadays though, I suspect.

Mother nature - work with her or have a bad day!

Wondered what you've been doing with my laptop! You little rascal!

Yes, I saw two boaters who looked just that kind of person going up Fradley locks. They gave me quite supercilious looks as I stood on the towpath, admiring their boats as they went past. Their husbands were nice, though - smiled and said, "Hello".

I was OK until it caught and shot up the chimney or todays paper and you scorched it. Did it as a kid lighting the fire many times

I have just got back from Vienna where I was advising a local museum about the construction of a half-sized wooden Wiener Neustadt Canal boat. The canal was based on English narrow canals, and some of the boats were similar to BCN or MB&BC boats, while others seem to have been based on local traditional construction. The canal's original engineer, Sebastian von Maillard, published a book on canal building in 1817 which I have just translated. Hopefully it will be published next year when I have finished writing the introduction explaining why a book on building a narrow canal was published in Austria. You can find an original copy, with figures, at http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/24960/1/0/.

In an electrical field. They might need shocking into activity.

I use it every time I visit. It means that next time I visit only those threads with new posts since my last visit are highlighted. Edited to add that if you read every thread with new posts on every visit it does this anyway and in this case is not necessary. The "mark site as read" basically just un-highlights those threads that you chose not to open on the previous visit unless they have new posts.

You norty tree monkey you.

Gonna say, I have never seen you operate it, your other half uses the tiller well though.

Funny innit, way, way back in time when I moved onto an old wooden boat it was mostly tree huggers, lovey dovey etc. etc. people and we were taking responsibility for our own lives, happily building our own boats but we were rather looked down upon by respectable, decent folk who didn't smell of old damp boats and mould and lived in houses and then the respectable decent folk thought 'that looks like fun' and moved on the system in boats with showers and microwaves and TV's and stuff and then they could pay huge licence and mooring fees and had lots of money and lots of us thought stuff this for a game of soldiers and left the cut. Now there's a few old arthritic tree huggers living with reduced means on old boats who's only crime is a tendency to untidiness nobody likes them. I'm gonna go and find a tree to hug.

Whilst it is sad that this guys home has sunk surely it is also his responsibility to ensure that his boat is in a state of repair that it can withstand boats passing him when moored up. The hirers may have been passing too quickly but that in itself is not going to cause a boat to sink!

The compassionate and factual account includes the bit where the hire company themselves brought the boats back, apologising and saying they had turned the hirers off the boats. That is surely an admission of liability and the insurance that is part of the hire agreement is there for damage caused by hirers, isn't it?

I suspect you are right about unnecessary overplating. Steel of the same grade corrodes at different rates as a result of environment. A basic understanding of the science of steel composition and corrosion should lead to that conclusion. I could show you lots of evidence of uncoated steel of varying ages, origins and alloys in normal atmospheric conditions that doesn't corrode very much at all. That's because it's all basically iron and subject to the same chemical reactions. I could also also show you what happens when accelerants to corrosion are introduced. Whether a piece of mild steel (which almost all boats are fabricated from) is of good or bad quality in relation to it's specification will almost certainly have no significant bearing on its corrosion resistance properties. I can't see any scientific reason why it should. And all the metallurgists I work with know that modern steel is a far superior product than anything produced 50 years ago. More importantly they also know why. I see the empirical evidence of that on a daily basis. Of course for the reasons stated above that has no bearing on corrosion of narrowboats. JP

No. The longer answer boils down to if you are trying to find the edge cases, you probably are not complying and are unlikely to "satisfy the board". This week's strong winds have been forecast for a few days, so moving before they hit is reasonable. Several members on here - some of whom have home moorings - have been moving today in the wind but carefully. Planned stoppages are also not a reason to stay put - they tend to be advertised months ahead. Unplanned stoppages can be a reason if you are stuck on a short pound, but not on a longer one - you can always turn back and go the other way. Most ice preventing movement only lasts a couple of days (usually) in the UK. It can be a funny one though - we set off in less than 1/8th inch broken ice earlier this year, and it was 1 1/2 inches and unbroken by the bottom of the locks! The only natural condition that give a cast iron guarantee of being "reasonable in the circumstances" is red board flooding on river sections - and even then you may need to argue with the local enforcement officer. The best argument at that point is "Will CRT accept liability in writing for forcing me to travel in flood conditions against my judgement of conditions?" As a continuous cruiser, I get very cross at those who try and give me a bad reputation with CRT. The bare minimum CRT will accept as valid movement works out at about 100 yards a day - if people don't want to move their boats, get a mooring or a caravan! (I'll get off my hobby horse now - I'll need him to tow the boat )

You will not ever be expected to travel in dangerous conditions and if the ice is solid you can't move. However in near on thirty years as a live aboard I have never had the need to breach the 14 day mooring rule. It's very easy to comply with if the boater is intent on complying. ?

No. Coatings should be applied to clean, dry parent metal wherever possible. The point is more that if you have rust patches don't mechanically remove the rust unless you subsequent apply a coating to the exposed steel as soon as possible afterwards. I was mostly responding to the notion that steel rusts significantly and quickly by pointing out that any untreated steel will appear to be corroded by nature but it isn't really a problem in the case of something like a baseplate on a boat. If you think about it there are many industrial applications where steel components and sections are used without any surface coating. JP

He or a closely allied company had the contract to demolish gas holders& there was a fair #that ended their life & considering the amount of steel plate in one a number of boats could be built def not a myth Joe Gilbert at Charity dock bought an amount from him I carried 3pairs worth from Mk Harborough basin to Charity dock think Joe had several stretching jobs on the 20 odd ft model I have no idea of the #of boats buint from new plate but I know a good #were built with ex gas holder plate

The pictures are not that clear, but the motor stern conversion look to involve a fair amount of riveting. Although it may well be 1980s / 1990s I think converting a BCN boat by riveting would have been quite unusual then, (and more unusual than it might be now). The pictures also seem to show a fairly short swim without a lot of lines to it, being almost folded on a line, rather than progressing through a gentle curve. This is not untypical of Harris Brothers conversion of BCN boats around the late 1950s, early 1960s. However the Floating Homes thing, plus the counter not being at all a typical Harris offering, I think that is a red herring. Certainly an unusual conversion. If it is 1980s/1990s, I bet one of the usual suspects at one of the specialist yards will probably know the history.

Dad always tried to share his knowledge and it was amazing what we found emptying his house, things he had written down, not sure when he did it going to work early morning coming home late (traveling from Worcester to Darlaston) restoring / building boats and steam locos to restoring canals. Pete please keep rambling and ignore those who don't understand the information your sharing. (please repost your painted table picture be good to compare with my sisters)