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We have been moored at Tring summit close to the bridge near the railway station for two days heading north. Whilst preparing to leisurely set off this morning two ambulance personnel walked past us heading towards cow roast marina. About 30 minutes later they reappeared heading back towards their ambulance parked near the bridge and explained their problem with a patient on a boat about 1/2 mile south of us. He needed to be admitted to hospital but had a dog on board. I advised them to contact CART to see if they could help with the dog via their welfare programme. About 10 minutes later as we were setting off they again reappeared with a wheel chair heading towards their patient again. He would have had nearly a mile in that chair along a bumpy towpath and up the rough path to their ambulance so I suggested that if there was anyone heading north passing the patient then they could ask for a lift. As we approached bridge 133 at the end of the cutting (Grand Junction Arms) one of the same ambulance people appeared and said that they had moved the ambulance to there as their patient was being delivered by boat. Whoever that boater is then please accept my thanks for your unselfish attitude and helping someone in need. We could all be in a similar situation one day and need assistance. Thanks once again David

Noticed a post that said that two guys (Just friends) took Pillings Lock Marina to County Court due to reselling electricity at an illegal higher price.. I was one of the duo who initially did this and although not making it a victory in stone for everyone we were certainly not ejected from the Marina. We left under an agreement which included our Leasehold fee being returned.. There followed the induced rant by him on here known as the 'page 3 rant'..And the famous long thread thereafter.. We do not know the reason why Paul Lillie has left but he was only a 25per cent owner ,if that ,of the Marina only.. Paul Lillie (premeditated ) and Steadman schemed to evict his (PL) parents from their home on site ..John and Mum were directors of the Marina previously .. Therefore Steadman has been the owner of Pillings Lock Marina ever since not Paul Lillie .. Paul Lillie being the operator of the site only.. This happened over five years ago and like many people we still despise Paul Lillie for ruining our boating for the rest of our lives experience with his lack of integrity... I do hope karma has caught up with him!

I think you should put clear tolerances on your drawings and get a written signed contract from the builder agreeing that the boat will be built exactly to the drawing, no money will be paid up front, and no money will be paid at all if there is any divergence from the drawings. You should also make it clear that you intend to take legal action if the job is not done to your satisfaction. Let us know how you get on ? ....................Dave

Yoyr position is subtly shifting all the time. Originally you wanted a whole custom designed shell with bow shaped to your specification iirc. Then you changed it to just custom window positions (which every boat has, so very easy) and some custom seating and shutters (whatever they are) but the builder had to use a CAD program to read you CAD files to get the dimensions. Now you talk about printing out your files and giving the builder some proper printed drawings. All good progress and we are just about there. Next, we need you to get your “customer is king” attitude under control. It’s a two way street. Most she’ll builders build because they love building boats, not because they are grasping for your money. Once you’ve been told to get lost by a few builders you’ll begin to recognise your options closing off and that you need to actually coax a decent fabricator to accept your commission and drop this ‘its my money so you’ll do it my way’ attitude, which will get you nowhere unless you happen to get very lucky.

I don't see any problem with that, its quite a good business strategy. Just because a business farms out the design and the steel cutting does not mean they do not understand it, it means they have found it is the most efficient way. Its not as though we are talking about a firm like Beneteau who have a production line , and are big enough to market, design, manufacture and fit out in house to a standard spec. Even these international companies will buy in materials, nuts and bolts etc etc. They won't be taking instruction from their customers on windows and doors but will offer a few add-ons to the basic spec. The NB industry is made up of small scale boat builders and small scale fitters. The builders generally know more about design than the customer.

A narrowboat is not an engineering piece - it is more akin to a commissioning a sculpture than buying a widget. You are getting someone to create from flat steel a knockoff of a wooden boat with a few tweaks - it is very very different to ordering a car or designing a type of house. You are also doing it based on 10 year old prices from a bankrupt company that churned out cheap shells of debatable variable quality. I don't think you will get the shell you want at a price you want to pay, built the way you want to work unless you design the whole thing yourself and contract it out to a jobbing fabricator shop, not a boatbuilder. I'm sad that you think we are winding you up, but there is a reason we are not all telling you it can be done - those of us that know the "industry" (it's more like a craft fair!) don't think you understand how it works.

With respect Phil i think it is obvious to most that you have no experience of boat builders or even canal boat builders. Visit a few and maybe you might appreciate what others have already said. Most reputable canal boat builders have been around for many many years, a fair number since leaving school and now in their 60s or even 70s. I can think of some that have probably built thousands of shells. Tim Tyler and Jonathan Wilson spring to mind. My own "custom built" boat was designed by a Naval Architect and built by a 65year old, a 70 year old, and a "lad" of 40ish. Between them they probably had over a 120 years of boatbuilding experience. Whoever you approach for your boat build, please treat them with respect or you will not be received well. I know some of the comments made on here might grate a little but there is some good advice also. CAD may well make an appearance in canal boatbuilding but I wouldn't hold my breath. Good luck with your project.

Who is probably playing Solitaire.

Bob. Life is way too short to watch a load of daft blokes kicking a ball about. Get a life mate there realy is much more than poxy football out there innitt ?

I didn't want to confuse the issue to much with the "tricks of the trade ie kebbing out & reuse confuse the issue to much

I had a fisherman ask if i minded him fishing behind the boat yesterday. He explained that his normal spot was filled with boats. He realised we only had the back cabin and thought he was too close. Thats a first. He got a couple of fish and a cup of tea for being simply pleasant.

Tempted to advise "all of them" and "go buy a yacht". What you don't seem to be willing to get is that it is a CRAFT industry, not a highly industrialized process that needs all manner of computer control. From what I have seen around the system you are so far out of touch with reality a barge pole is not long enough. You need to find a general fabricator who builds all manner of things from steel to the customers spec. and thus probably uses CAD but I very much doubt you are realistic price wise.

I read an article recently that suggested it wasnt worth faffing about and lying em flat was the best alround solution, unless you had sufficient panels to be able to loose less tracking through powered tracking than you gained by them not being at the optimal angle. If you are that concerned you would also have to make sure your boat was aligned due north south and angle the panels east west changing them appropriately through the day. It aint going to happen... i recon cleaning them daily when you mop the boat is probably more advantagous. Sorry lost less through tracking motor losses than you gained by optimisation alignment

I use a heat exchanger to heat my calorifier via the back boiler. So similar but different. Advantage is by using a thermo switch controlling the pump it only heats the calorifier when the stove boiler is up to temperature and has cured the problem of the stove cooling the calorifier when its on tickover.

This is going to turn into a series of fish jokes, isn't it

I was thinking something similar. All those Gardners and hardly an electric boat anywhere to be seen. I was vaguely expecting another thread about propulsion by now, stating this was to be an all electric boat rather than relying on the dying technology of diesel.

I don't see what all the fuss about CAD files is about. Its standard practice in most industries to use CAD has been for decades. It's not like I'm suggesting some new fangled piece of computing/way of doing things. In fact in industry such as Architecture it's all moving on from line drawing programs like AutoCAD and onto 3D modelling programs like Revit. I know yacht builders all use CAD. For Narrow boat builders not to use it is not good and very out of date. I'm guessing the ones that produce boats for the general public to buy up of tge shelf use it or the internal space wouldn't line up on each. The guy in the workshop may not be seen with it but I'm thinking it is more in use in many of the boat builders than you may think. Not using CAD and ending up with a boat that is a foot or more out is not ok. A good craftsman would do it specification not say 'this what I made of it be satisfied with that'. Again a boat builder with such an attitude I would not touch so going to see them first does indeed sound a good idea. My guess is that it will be the smaller boat builders where such attitudes might still exist. The 12k was just based off that website. I had no way of knowing it was so out of date. Most would have been taken down or updated. I'm guessing with the price of cheap steel imports since would have kept the cost down though. I can of course go higher than 12k but really want a good balance between cost and a decent hull. I'm not really looking for a state of the art piece of Hull building as of course that will cost which is money I don't wish to pay.

I bought some stuff called "Elbow Grease". It really is excellent. It's a spray on degreaser intended for household use. It does a great job taking grease spots out of my polo shirts where I've rubbed a lock gate. I paid something like a pound a bottle in a supermarket in, I think, March in Cambridgeshire, but I can't seem to find it in London. You can buy it on Ebay, but it's more expensive. Get it if you can. I've just checked and you can buy it in "The Range" if there's a branch near you.

Over in the UK next week - can I do anything?

Sorry to hear about your injury woes Wayne. Hope it doesn't set you back too much.

Sorry to hear that Wayne. I'm no good at sanding, so can't help you there but wish you a speedy recovery and pain free future.

The best built boats on the system more often than not are produced in yards/sheds that defy description & because they don't resort to the latest "Gismo's"doesn't mean they are not capable of producing a good swimming /handling quality shell you have to realise a lot of shell producers on the UK system are steel fabricators not boat builders who jumped on the band wagon when leisure boating became popular & the demand of the customer requiring the max of interior space has produced all manner of Ugly hulls with short swims (handle horrible)lack of cabin tumble home (bridge bashers) weird shaped fore ends & then you get a shell built with tape measure chalk line & soapstone chalk stick by some one who understands the iffs & buts of shell building & you get a real sweet hull in regard to performance But as your the guy opening his bank account the final choice is yours Just a thought have scroll though Apollo duck & view some of the hull end shapes If you see one or more you like note the builder & maybe go from there

I can see you point of view, but boat building is a craft, its not really engineering. If you have a computer controlled lathe or mill then yes, CAD is what its all about. But boatbuilding is about forming 6mm steel plates, they are part welded then maybe lugs welded on and a block and tackle used to bend them into shape, in fact I expect many builders have their own "special" method of forming the shapes, pull a bit, stand back and look, pull a bit more, yes, that looks right, weld it in place. CAD only really works with CNC tools! Boats are like Victorian houses, the tape measure and spirit level are a starting point, but standing back and looking is also important. ...............Dave

3-in-a-boat its getting worse...…………………………… one husband and two Jennifers

Everybody's husband is quite handy when they're in a Narrowboat with one, Jennifer. The most they can be is about 70 feet or so away - how handy is that? (Doesn't mean he's any use to man nor beast though, obviously)!

You could lash the panel to the stem of a big Sunflower plant, just below and as close to the big flower head as possible, which always swing about to face the sun and it'll do it automatically.

Selective memory Arthur. Wood ash is excellent for plants including hedgerows. Coal ash or mixed wood and coal ash is bad for plants including hedgerows. Hot embers are very bad because they set fire to the hedgerow!

It's good to be able to offer advice instead of asking questions! Just having a look through my purchased items on ebay, I can see all the odds and ends I got but going through them a lot of the sellers don't have the relevant parts any more so you will have to have a good browse. I did find the following though: Rubber noggins: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-Anti-VIBRATION-AV-RUBBER-BOBBIN-MOUNTS-M6-Radio-Controlled-Models/302449144303 Exhaust skin fitting: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-outlet-22mm-for-webasto-heaters-stainless-steel-polished-eberspacher-d2/173515283564?hash=item2866511c6c:g:CzQAAOSwNZtZ2JMM Clips for the fuel pipe: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P-Clips-Steel-Rubber-Lined-Fixings-Black-Wiring-Pipe-Fuel-Car-Auto-Van-DIY/112338157501?hash=item1a27e03fbd:m:m_DI-SCgAwnR5PWFAF7k9Jg Hose: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rubber-EPDM-SAEJ20R3-Radiator-Hose-Car-Heater-Coolant-Engine-Water-Pipe/200982593996?hash=item2ecb7f01cc:m:mnQ9xwYS99YltQ2IkqmR-lg Think it was 19mm but NMEA can advise The adaptors to get from the hose: 3/4 BSPT x 3/4 inch (19mm) Brass Hose Tail £7.95 The extra pressure valve I bought was: 3 BAR ALTECNIC CALEFFI PRESSURE RELIEF SAFETY VALVE 1/2"Fl x 1/2"Fl BSP (311430) £5.95 Extra hose clamps: ASH Hose Clamps Heavy Duty Exhaust Hex Screw New T Bolt Stainless Steel from autosiliconehoses_outlet £3 for 3. I also bought a kit from a local plumbers merchants called something like "combi kit" or "pressurised system kit" which was the gauge on a special fitting with fill loop and a pressure valve (there are two types of valves used - can't remember the ins and outs of it now). The expansion thingy I think I got from toolstation, with a fixing kit which is a metal band and a clamp or something. It was small - maybe 5-8 litre or something. There was something else that went with the 19mm brass hose couplings - think it was like adaptor rings or something. Fuel pipe was a specialist not from ebay - will try to find it but they will cut and flare it for you... pricey though. Anything else just ask!

I wouldn't give the Good Pub Guide house (or boat) room. Beer quality does not seem to be a criterion.

Trevor is,I think, in the white overalls just to the left. He left a lasting impression on me, as someone who would produce a top class job regardless of time constraints. His working hours were somewhat irregular.....often turning up in mid afternoon, then working on till the early hours. I composed a limerick for him in the 90s,,,,l A grizzled old veteran named Trevor was at woodwork remarkably clever.... But the speed of his work Made poor Graham look a burk And the simplest jobs lasted for ever. He died a few years ago. Graham, Tony, Glynn and myself attended the funeral. Waiting outside, we were advised by an official that the cortège was delayed by an accident. “ Late for his own funeral “ I commented, bringing mirth from those who knew and worked with him. So appropriate...

Thanks Pete. It is a bit of a horror story at this point... but from now on it becomes considerably better. Watch this space

One from the past and mine.