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alan_fincher

Historic Boats for sale online

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I bought an old fashioned single socket windlass from Jim Mac about 15 years ago. Still have it. He said it was the wife's lock key.  (Edit to add £5 he was not greedy). It is a nice boat yes. He told me something about a bridge on the Trent in fog but I don't remember the whole story. I do remember the dog. And cassio wharf which is a very interesting mooring. 

 

 

Edited by magnetman

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23 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

This boat looks to be going up in value faster than houses in London, it was £95K last year Vital Spark  https://scotland.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/classic-boats-motor-boat/619809

I'm pretty sure the price on that one will be fairly negotiable. The owner is more interested in the boat going to a good home than ultimate financial return. (Bit like "Elizabeth" ! ) It may be described as "the real "Vital Spark"", but it'll always be Eilean Easdale to me. Neil Munro's "Vital Spark" was a steamer; this one's diesel.

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On 02/12/2019 at 18:17, Anniemac said:

N.B. Elizabeth 

Hello, 

I’m Jim’s wife and after reading some of these comments on here I thought I had better put the record straight. 
Elizabeth is on the market because Jim has Alzheimer’s, and is now unable to lavish the care on her he once did.

 

Annie

 


 

Hello and welcome Annie;in common with many (most?) others on here I'm sorry to hear that you have to sell your boat but hope that the right person will take her over.

   We don't really know you but we have admired Elizabeth and spoken briefly to you in various places, including I think Alvecote and (some years ago) Langley Mill. Best wishes for a fair sale and for the future.

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On 02/12/2019 at 18:17, Anniemac said:

N.B. Elizabeth 

Hello, 

I’m Jim’s wife and after reading some of these comments on here I thought I had better put the record straight. 
Elizabeth is on the market because Jim has Alzheimer’s, and is now unable to lavish the care on her he once did.

How do you put a price on the oldest surviving conversion of a narrowboat? we asked many people, some who worked with historic boats and some who owned them, everyone gave vastly different answers! we originally priced her at 60k to try to avoid her becoming a cheap live aboard, (Jim lived on her full time for 32 years, so nothing against live aboards) the price was always negotiable. We included the fact that she needs to be regularly maintained because with 83 year old wooden cabin she does! 
Foolishly we waited a year for a certain boat museum to get funding together to purchase her for their collection, as she is such an important boat, due to certain issues within their hierarchy we are still waiting and have frankly given up.

Elizabeth has just been surveyed and the hull and engine are in very good order, her top is showing wear and tear but nothing that a little tlc can’t put right.

We really hope that whoever purchases her will carry on caring for her the way Jim has over the last 53 years, she really is the most incredible vessel and I can guarantee the new custodians will never be short of conversation, because Elizabeth attracts attention wherever she goes.

Annie

 


 

Hi Annie, We have met in 2017 on the Caldon Canal. I knew the real reason but did not like to publish the reason for the sale. Glad you have come along and told people.

  • Greenie 1

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I met Jim and Annie on Elizabeth when I first got Victoria - I was breaking the ice back south along the GU and they followed. Then met up again at Ellesmere Port that Easter and became good friends. Elizabeth is a very interesting boat, and I do hope it goes to a good owner.
 

 

 

Edited by mykaskin

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I think some of the problems are unconverted old boats seam to ask high prices and it's harder to justify on a boat that if kept as unconverted is its alot to pay for a back cabin,

 

Converted is a little easyer to justify price as you get all the living space too.

 

Then you get Elizabeth and tycoo where there a bit more specialist boats, even some wooden boats wont sell even at low ish price due to being specialist.

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4 hours ago, billybobbooth said:

I think some of the problems are unconverted old boats seam to ask high prices and it's harder to justify on a boat that if kept as unconverted is its alot to pay for a back cabin,

 

Converted is a little easyer to justify price as you get all the living space too.

 

Then you get Elizabeth and tycoo where there a bit more specialist boats, even some wooden boats wont sell even at low ish price due to being specialist.

Good summary.

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6 hours ago, ChimneyChain said:
Cant believe this hasn’t yet sold 
 
For Sale: BIRMINGHAM - TOWN CLASS WOOLWICH - WORKING BOAT 71ft 
UK Narrow Boats > Traditional For Sale 
OtherFor Sale

 

586858_1.jpgBIRMINGHAM


Yes, it is surprising, and disappointing for the owner.  I've always loved this particular boat, but if it were ever appropriate for me to own a full length working boat, those days have passed,and I fear I am too old to take one on now.

Interestingly I have just been browsing old adverts in Waterways World,and come across the advert for when my brother sold his unconverted Large Woolwich.

 

The magazine is dated may 1979, so we are looking at 40 years ago, when the oats were about half their current age.

It reads simply...
 

Quote

Large Woolwich,Unconverted motor, PD2. New cabin and counter 1976. £5,500.


It was probably in a not dissimilar overall condition to what Birmingham is, so it gives an idea of working boat inflation over 40 years.

 

An online inflation calculator indicated that £5,500 in 1979 is equivalent to about £25,000 today, so you can see working boat prices have well outstripped inflation.

Mind you, if you had owned and maintained that boat for 40 years, you would hardly have made a profit. ?

  • Greenie 1

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5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I see Effingham has now been sold

I was speaking to someone in Braunston a couple or so weeks ago who said they were buying Effingham. Ididnt say anything as I was reluctant to upset Apple carts.

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On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 18:33, Ray T said:

For those who may not know what a lovely characterful boat Elizabeth is.

 

Photo'd by me at Coventry Basin April 2010.

 

From another thread a picture of mine at Limehouse from 1986 showing Elizabeth moored up to a pre-deconverted Fulbourne

 

 

112 London Ring Cruise Limehouse Basin 16th August 1986.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

From another thread a picture of mine at Limehouse from 1986 showing Elizabeth moored up to a pre-deconverted Fulbourne

 

 

112 London Ring Cruise Limehouse Basin 16th August 1986.jpg

Which one is Fulbourne?

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On 06/12/2019 at 10:30, mykaskin said:

I met Jim and Annie on Elizabeth when I first got Victoria - I was breaking the ice back south along the GU and they followed. Then met up again at Ellesmere Port that Easter and became good friends. Elizabeth is a very interesting boat, and I do hope it goes to a good owner.
 

 

 

Great video Mike - was nice to see my old home Marcellus (308) there!

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1 hour ago, BuckbyLocks said:

7307  Great video Mike. Spotted both of us sat watching Jim paddling and again slightly later.  Can I get a couple of stills from it somehow? (Not very technical!)

@BuckbyLocks  You have a pm

Edited by Ray T

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:25, BWM said:

Which one is Fulbourne?

Would that have been the "Last Chance" cruise, before Limehouse lock was closed, prior to reducing its capacity? I had it my head as being in 1984. That was my first trip on the tideway in my friends 40ft Springer.

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5 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

Would that have been the "Last Chance" cruise, before Limehouse lock was closed, prior to reducing its capacity? I had it my head as being in 1984. That was my first trip on the tideway in my friends 40ft Springer.

Limehouse Lock wasn't rebuilt until 1988, a couple of pictures from the August & November:

 

103 Limehouse Lock Reconstruction 13th Nov 1988.jpg

Limehouse Lock Reconstruction 14th August 1988.jpg

Edited by Tim Lewis

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On 30/11/2019 at 16:25, pete harrison said:

 

I think this is also the case with EFFINGHAM, not to all tastes and so not for most historic boat enthusiasts - even though it appears to be a good boat with an almost new cabin fitout and a Lister HR2.

 

The way things are going with 'historic' narrow boats I think I am going to have to review my opinion that they sell for about two thirds of the initial asking price and reduce it to half the initial asking price. There are a few for sale that look pretty good value to me but are not selling, and the one that interests me needs to drop quite a bit before I will go and see it :captain:

My first post here. Delighted to find this thread, and a secret (or at least low lying until I have a historic) HNBC member here. 

 

So do you think motors up for 40k realistically change hands nearer 20k?Only here to learn respectfully. Quite liked Effingham, but surprised she sold before Birmingham. 

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10 hours ago, OliverW said:

My first post here. Delighted to find this thread, and a secret (or at least low lying until I have a historic) HNBC member here. 

 

So do you think motors up for 40k realistically change hands nearer 20k?Only here to learn respectfully. Quite liked Effingham, but surprised she sold before Birmingham. 

I have three points of order regarding what I wrote and what you are responding too:

 

1 = When I talk of boats selling for two thirds of their original asking price it is just that - the original asking price so not necessarily the price they are at now.

 

2 = there was some sarcasm intended when I suggested lowering my theory from two thirds to half the original asking price, this being based upon the current stagnation in the selling of 'historic' narrow boats and the way their current price reduction reflects this.

 

3 = most enthusiasts do not agree with my theory, and some boats certainly do sell for stronger money.

 

We are nowhere near reaching the position of 'historic' motor's selling for £20K, unless you want something that requires a comprehensive restoration, a B.C.N. day boat conversion or something of wooden construction - none of which have widespread appeal but certainly have their followers. It should also be borne in mind that a good quality restoration of any 'historic' narrow boat can easily exceed its end value by over 100%, especially if you and your restorer have an eye for detail - and it is this that can make a solid £45k 'historic' boat very good value in my opinion. The boat that currently interests me will attract my proper attention once it falls to just above two thirds of its original asking price, but I would not expect them to accept an offer much lower than this - but then I am in no rush as I am currently part way through a 'historic' boat restoration, so if somebody else buys it they will probably be doing me a favour.

 

Several of the contributors to this thread are members of H.N.B.C., including me, so consider yourself to be amongst friends (of sorts !) :captain:

Edited by pete harrison

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11 hours ago, OliverW said:

My first post here. Delighted to find this thread, and a secret (or at least low lying until I have a historic) HNBC member here. 

 

So do you think motors up for 40k realistically change hands nearer 20k?Only here to learn respectfully. Quite liked Effingham, but surprised she sold before Birmingham. 

Welcome Oliver!

To be honest. I think it is fair to say the whole thing seems to be fairly unpredictable.

It is certainly true that the market seems to have become more stagnant for a while, but equally just because some boats originallypriced at £40K or more have apparently remained unsold, others have actually changed hands remarkably quickly.  I'll put my hands up and say I don't know what such boats actually sold for, but I doubt it was two thirds of the originally asked price, and certainly not half of it.

 

I think it is perhaps too easy to assume that one apparently well presented unconverted boat of a certain type is necessarily directly comparable with another of the same type.  Both may have, for example, a well blacked hull, but one may have had extensive replating done to a very high standard, wheras another may be in urgent need of it, or had extensive overplating that is not necessarily such a good outcome.

 

The problem is that as an inexperienced buyer many of us don't necessarily know what we are buying, and may even go on for years thinking what we have bought is more or better restored than it is!

Like Pete, I very much doubt you are going to acquire an unconverted Josher or "Grand Union" in good order for anything close to £20K.  My personal view is  that anything you spend even £30K on is likely to only be the start of shelling out a lot more cash.

 

However I think there are some good boats out there which can be acquired at a fair price, but you probably need to avoid the most popular types.  In a way I suggest that's no bad thing.  There are countless Joshers and Grand Unions, but some boats on offer are truly unique, and the only example of that type surviving.

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