Tankage for a month of splendid isolation.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 15/07/2024 at 00:31, Gybe Ho said:

Perhaps I don't need a marina after all. Could booking a CRT winter mooring for two months be enough. I have no idea what the discount is relative to a marina. I was assuming £300 per month for adhoc winter marina stays.

I use a marina if I need to dump the boat for longer than 2 or 3 weeks. For security and put batteries on charge. 
 

Otherwise I couldn’t stay long in one. 
Anyway you’ll find the month you book in you’ll have glorious winter weather and will wish you were out and about.
 
 

[dmr]

9 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

 Ooo no, not at that price given the quantity involved. £30 for 8ft would equate to £3000+ for a whole shell fitout.

 

These planks are 9" or 225mm wide, so call it 10 across with some wastage. Building trade scaffold boards are 13ft or 3.9m long. I need a hundred full length boards or more at 8ft.

 

I will be buying in bulk from a major trade supplier in Immingham. £15 per 13ft board. That is still £1500. I have not costed out the more typical floor make up of ply finished with Amtico or other domestic laminates.

 

 

The price difference between scaffold planks and oak is probably a lot less than you might think, especially if you can buy green oak in bulk and find somebody with a thicknessing machine to turn it into floorboards. You will need to dry it out a fair bit so start planning ahead now. Scafold planks will also need a fair bit of planing (or serious sanding) to make a nice floor.

[MrsM]

6 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Am I getting confused with induction and another cooking option where the energy transfer is via something fitted into the pan base?

 

 

I am still sitting on the diesel serial-hybrid fence hence no generator decision yet. I think Travel Packs are now technically eclipsed by large lithium banks.

 

The market does not seem to offer a sweet 6kVA 3 cylinder generator that will purr in its foredeck hutch.

 

My reference design is a Mothership serial hybrid. This can generate 10kVA under a tugdeck up forward but requires fat cables to deliver the power at 48 volts. At my present stage of comprehending serial hybrid design I do not understand why that power cannot be delivered aft at 240v and fed into the shore inlet circuit via a double pole 240v switch.

I apologise if I am completely misreading the situation, but given your wish-list why not just buy a really good second-hand boat? It will meet some, but not  all, of your requirements and you can then take time to fettle it to your desire. Then you can get out boating rather than spend years trying to do a self fit-out and wrangle with all the RCA etc headaches. Given the sort of boat you want surely this will be the quicker, cheaper and easier route?

[Gybe Ho]

12 hours ago, dmr said:

The price difference between scaffold planks and oak is probably a lot less than you might think, especially if you can buy green oak in bulk and find somebody with a thicknessing machine to turn it into floorboards. You will need to dry it out a fair bit so start planning ahead now. Scafold planks will also need a fair bit of planing (or serious sanding) to make a nice floor.

 

The you-tubers Dani & Joe experienced plank shrinkage after laying the floor and came up with a novel fix. They rammed a traditional hemp looking rope cord into the gaps as a form of caulking.  I looks excellent in the second video link I posted earlier and this will still allow a degree of moisture escape from the bilges.

 

The first Dani & Joe video above shows them hand sanding the planks but yes it would be great to push 100 planks through a planning machine in a fraction of the time. Some planning machines can leave 1000's of find scalloped impressions in the finished surface, hopefully a high powered pro workshop planner would not do the same.

12 hours ago, MrsM said:

I apologise if I am completely misreading the situation, but given your wish-list why not just buy a really good second-hand boat? It will meet some, but not  all, of your requirements and you can then take time to fettle it to your desire. Then you can get out boating rather than spend years trying to do a self fit-out and wrangle with all the RCA etc headaches. Given the sort of boat you want surely this will be the quicker, cheaper and easier route?

 

This is not a bad idea and I will consider this when the time comes to make a decision. I mentioned earlier in the week that by designing my perfect narrowboat and costing it out in detail I will then be able to critically assess secondhand boats. Without this exercise I would just be another wannabe narrow boater wandering around the brokerage vessels randomly poking this and that and saying coo-eee. 

 

I would have enough money for a fastpaced DIY fitout, getting in pro's to advance some of the big ticket steps. In coastal marinas it is not unusual to see the perpetual boatyard projects. I think some of these owners actually prefer boatyard diy project culture than venturing on the High Seas.

Edited July 20 by Gybe Ho

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

I think some of these owners actually prefer boatyard fiy project culture than venturing on the High Seas.

 

No offence intended, but I have been wondering it it might be the same for you. There is no denying the enjoyment and fun to be had from planning and executing a project, but if your goal is to get out boating (and I'm not sure it is!), then buy a second hand boat first and USE IT while you design and build your dream boat. This will colour and shift your views on how you design your ultimate ideal boat immeasurably.

 

I really do feel you are missing a trick by dismissing this idea (already suggested by someone else right near the start of this thread). 

[LadyG]

15 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

The you-tubers Dani & Joe experienced plank shrinkage after laying the floor and came up with a novel fix. They rammed a traditional hemp looking rope cord into the gaps as a form of caulking.  I looks excellent in the second video link I posted earlier and this will still allow a degree of moisture escape from the bilges.

 

The first Dani & Joe video above shows them hand sanding the planks but yes it would be great to push 100 planks through a planning machine in a fraction of the time. Some planning machines can leave 1000's of find scalloped impressions in the finished surface, hopefully a high powered pro workshop planner would not do the same.

 

This is not a bad idea and I will consider this when the time comes to make a decision. I mentioned earlier in the week that by designing my perfect narrowboat and costing it out in detail I will then be able to critically assess secondhand boats. Without this exercise I would just be another wannabe narrow boater wandering around the brokage vessels randomly poking this and that and saying coo-eee. 

 

I would have enough money for a fastpaced DIY fitout, getting in pro's to advance some of the big ticket steps. In coastal marinas it is not unusual to see the perpetual boatyard projects. I think some of these owners actually prefer boatyard fiy project culture than venturing on the High Seas.

You are constantly trying  to re invent the wheel and could easily spend £160K on a boat owner fitout with bells and whistles for no good reason.

Remember that boats depreciate fast in the first few years and that money will never be recovered, particularly if it is quirky.

As for relying on good fitters to do the difficult bits, you will find they are not queing up to Implement your ideas at a time and place to suit you. The good ones are busy, the others take your money and are never seen again. 

Research for good  builders, and keep an eye on Apollo Duck, you are just as likely to find a decent boat with a good fitout that way, and save yourself £80K. You will find this is the fastest way to get afloat.

 

 

Edited July 20 by LadyG

[Peanut]

19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You are constantly trying  to re invent the wheel and could easily spend £160K on a boat owner fitout with bells and whistles for no good reason.

Remember that boats depreciate fast in the first few years, that money will never be recovered, particularly if it is quirky.

As for relying on good fitters to do the difficult bits, you will find they are not queing up to Implement your ideas at a time and place to suit you. The good ones are busy, the others take your money and are never seen again. 

Research for good  builders, and keep an eye on Apollo Duck, you are just as likely to find a decent boat with a good fitour that way, and save yourself £80K. You will find this is the fastest way to get afloat.

 

 

 

You are forgetting, it is a dreamboat.

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

No offence intended, but I have been wondering it it might be the same for you. There is no denying the enjoyment and fun to be had from planning and executing a project, but if your goal is to get out boating (and I'm not sure it is!), then buy a second hand boat first and USE IT while you design and build your dream boat. This will colour and shift your views on how you design your ultimate ideal boat immeasurably.

 

I really do feel you are missing a trick by dismissing this idea (already suggested by someone else right near the start of this thread). 

AHH but 12 year old You tubers know best 😉

[Peanut]

8 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

AHH but 12 year old You tubers know best 😉

You can't change the shell, or make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[ditchcrawler]

On 16/07/2024 at 22:41, Momac said:

Hygiene is never a waste of water.

 

 

Not sure where the hygiene comes into it but throwing half a gallon of clean potable water that has been filtered and chlorinated down a domestic toilet to flush a way a cup full of pee in my opinion is a waste.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not sure where the hygiene comes into it but throwing half a gallon of clean potable water that has been filtered and chlorinated down a domestic toilet to flush a way a cup full of pee in my opinion is a waste.

Houses are not suited to earth closets, the folks who had a shed at the bottom of their gardens were glad enough to have water closets when mains sewage was installed. 

We have moved away from chamber pots too....

 

Edited July 20 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Dont bring dirty water into your boat. 

 

Then you don't need a toilet.

Does away with a lot of the arguments.

[system 4-50]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not sure where the hygiene comes into it but throwing half a gallon of clean potable water that has been filtered and chlorinated down a domestic toilet to flush a way a cup full of pee in my opinion is a waste.

I used the minimum flush on my Jabsco Deluxe Mascerating Flush for pees and a slightly bigger flush for bigger efforts. Nowhere near half a gallon (and it was a metric toilet anyway🙂).

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Nowhere near half a gallon (and it was a metric toilet anyway🙂).

 

Obviously built prior to the (2019 Brexit)  revocation of the 1988 requirement to use metric measurements.

 

 

Edited July 20 by Alan de Enfield

[Gybe Ho]

3 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I used the minimum flush on my Jabsco Deluxe Mascerating Flush for pees and a slightly bigger flush for bigger efforts. Nowhere near half a gallon (and it was a metric toilet anyway🙂).

 

Next he will be quoting pump out prices in Shillings or Guineas.

[cheesegas]

On 19/07/2024 at 15:44, IanD said:

I don't think going electric for cooking -- hob or oven or even kettle -- makes sense on a diesel-powered boat, which is why most people don't do it and stick to gas.

Agreed that going full electric on a diesel powered boat used as a liveaboard without shore power doesn't make sense, but a mix of both works well. I have a gas hob along with a portable induction hob, toaster and electric kettle. Used to have an air fryer but I didn't use it much and decided it wasn't worth the storage space. In summer, I don't use gas to cook at all apart from the occasional pizza as solar provides all the power, and the alternator is switched off completely for 7-8 months.

 

The only issue is the storage, as for 4 months of the year you need to find somewhere to tuck away a hob and kettle. I've found small versions of both which live next to the water tank in winter but it's still a chunk of space.

[Gybe Ho]

3 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

and the alternator is switched off completely for 7-8 months.

 

 

Not heard of that before. Your annual regime at least confirms going 100% solar for a substantial portion of the year is possible. How much solar do you have?

 

13 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

The only issue is the storage, as for 4 months of the year you need to find somewhere to tuck away a hob and kettle.

 

 

I am starting to think that a tiny annual storage rental cupboard ashore would be useful. 4' x 4' x 4' would do.

[cheesegas]

Just now, Gybe Ho said:

Not heard of that before. Your annual regime at least confirms going 100% solar for a substantial portion of the year is possible. How much solar do you have?

Not a massive amount - 1kw and a 400ah 12v lithium bank. I use gas for hot water year round however as I don't have a calorifier nor the space to fit one.

 

Ideally I'd have a built in single ring induction hob and a two ring gas burner rather than a four ring gas cooker/oven unit which partially solves the storage issue, but that needs a substantial kitchen refit!

[Bod]

What was the name of that narrowboat, built quite a number of years ago, that had joystick steering, and all mod cons?

Red/ white paintwork, slanting windows, sofa type steering position.

 

@Gybe Ho when someone recalls the name of this boat, you could spend a very useful hour or so researching the boat and it's recent history.

Another worth studying albeit a much different case, but still one where "fresh ideas" were used, is" Dover".  A large Woolwich, renovated, fitted with mod cons, mostly removed by subsequent buyers at ever reducing value.

 

Crick show boats are all, with very few exceptions, built for customers to their own designs, the builders, do the work, to the customers wishes.

Almost all of the builders at Crick will build a boat to your specification.

 

Bod.

[BilgePump]

9 minutes ago, Bod said:

What was the name of that narrowboat, built quite a number of years ago, that had joystick steering, and all mod cons?

Red/ white paintwork, slanting windows, sofa type steering position.

 

@Gybe Ho when someone recalls the name of this boat, you could spend a very useful hour or so researching the boat and it's recent history.

Another worth studying albeit a much different case, but still one where "fresh ideas" were used, is" Dover".  A large Woolwich, renovated, fitted with mod cons, mostly removed by subsequent buyers at ever reducing value.

 

Crick show boats are all, with very few exceptions, built for customers to their own designs, the builders, do the work, to the customers wishes.

Almost all of the builders at Crick will build a boat to your specification.

 

Bod.

Whitefield was the boat you're thinking of

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Whitefield was the boat you're thinking of

 

Was that the one built to a customers design - cost £250k+, didn't work out and up for sale ever since at an ever reducing price. Had a number of owners - all for very short periods. Last sold at about £70k from memory.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Was that the one built to a customers design - cost £250k+, didn't work out and up for sale ever since at an ever reducing price. Had a number of owners - all for very short periods. Last sold at about £70k from memory.

That's the one -- apparently the joystick steering made it impossible to control properly, and it almost always ended up zig-zagging down the canal...

[BilgePump]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Was that the one built to a customers design - cost £250k+, didn't work out and up for sale ever since at an ever reducing price. Had a number of owners - all for very short periods. Last sold at about £70k from memory.

I can't recall the figures but a search of the forum will find numerous mentions of that craft. Trouble about tons of modern futuristic tech is that it soon becomes old hat even if it doesn't break down. The windows, cratch cover etc also made it very much a Marmite design from an aesthetic point of view. When a design strays so far from traditional style, finding a future buyer who shares the original owner's 'vision' will become a lot more difficult.

Edited July 22 by BilgePump

[Gybe Ho]

47 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Not a massive amount - 1kw and a 400ah 12v lithium bank. I use gas for hot water year round however as I don't have a calorifier nor the space to fit one.

 

 

Tis reassuring to read you achieve solar self sufficiency for 8 months with a sensible technical investment. Do your think your largest daily electric consumption is a fridge or computer?

 

50 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Ideally I'd have a built in single ring induction hob and a two ring gas burner rather than a four ring gas cooker/oven unit which partially solves the storage issue, but that needs a substantial kitchen refit!

 

 

The caravan/narrowboat equipment suppliers have a blind spot in the kitchen hob department. There is either that giant linear 3 ring gas hob that seems to be designed for a commercial kitchen and featured in 50% of Crick exhibition narrowboats kitchen or scaled down lidded hobs for RV kitchens. Is your hybrid hob idea a design concept or a real product?

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Tis reassuring to read you achieve solar self sufficiency for 8 months with a sensible technical investment. Do your think your largest daily electric consumption is a fridge or computer?

 

 

The caravan/narrowboat equipment suppliers have a blind spot in the kitchen hob department. There is either that giant linear 3 ring gas hob that seems to be designed for a commercial kitchen and featured in 50% of Crick exhibition narrowboats kitchen or scaled down lidded hobs for RV kitchens. Is your hybrid hob idea a design concept or a real product?

You can get 30cm wide "domino" hobs which butt up together, then you can have any combination of gas (including a wok burner) or electric/induction that you want.

 

These do however need full-depth (60cm) worktops, which is a problem for many boats. And they're also expensive, which puts off a lot of boaters... 😉