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BilgePump

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  • Gender
    Male

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  • Occupation
    Saggar maker's bottom knocker
  • Boat Name
    Scorpio
  • Boat Location
    North West

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  1. Yes, agree too that it should be plenty to push such a boat, more than enough for the canal. I've used an 8hp Yam 2 stroke to push a 20' one ton yacht against tidal river currents in the past and it was well suited to the job. At 1.5m (approx 5ft) wide and`18' long, it sounds as though yours is an open or cuddy dayboat so probably a good bit lighter than one ton. As a comparison, I'm currently using a 5hp Yam on a 19' cabin cruiser (approx 800kg all up with me and kit) on narrow canals and it is quite adequate. I also used a similar 5hp engine as an auxillary on a 16' fishing boat on the sea and in benign conditions would have a run out using it instead of the main engine. It did the job fine. Maybe the question should not be 'how fast will it go?' but 'will I be able to go slow enough on the canal to avoid creating a breaking wash'.
  2. Beautiful boat. Good to see craft like that lovingly maintained.
  3. Go to https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/search/ , click on the tab for 'Member Search', type in their user name and they should be returned as the only result. Hover over or go to their profile and click on 'Message'.
  4. Top tech suggestion, lump of lead, a rope and knots in it. You know, it could measure things like.... eta: obviously only works in shallow saucer shaped ditches. For owt else try looking for trailing log., but then if you're in deep water, you know already eta: Please realise this is all said in jest. Don't put a hundred yards of line out behind a canal boat. Think how many trolleys you will catch, even if the rope misses the prop.
  5. It's not hirers vs. private It's respectful vs. pillocks They come in all flavours
  6. Oh, is that what the canals were built for? 😁 But still, you, me, and the boat in question aren't transporting goods asap, hence the comment that 'it wasn't a working flyboat'. A few decades ago could be the 80s and the canals were no longer dominated by working boats in those years. Then and today, if someone's leisure cruise itinerary is so tight that it necessitates overtaking on such a bend as described by the OP then maybe said itinerary is a tad optimistic. Back when the canals truly were working, the boats were crewed by people on them day in day out, where speed was an economic essential and they had the skills to match. Very few boats would be moored up on the towpath or able to waste time in the day. Now, the boat in front may be 70' of steel or a dinghy, hire boat or coal boat, trip boat, tupperware or kayak, and the experience of the crew can vary from a few hours to a lifetime. Some want to chug slowly along, out of caution or enjoyment, some to get the miles in, both are valid and the same person may like to do both at different times. Add onto this the lines of moored boats that may restrict the available width in parts, typically in the most congested stretches to start with. Possibly, the diverse types (and speeds) of the canal network's users today should be taken into account when we're planning a route, and it should be accepted that opportunities for passing slower boats will be fewer the narrower, windier, shallower, busier or more overgrown a waterway we're travelling. Passing a slower boat isn't bad in itself, but pushing or passing in an uncoordinated and reckless fashion is. What if it had been another overtaking pair coming round the bend in the opposite direction? Going slow isn't unfair in itself, but obstructing another boat where it would be safe for them to pass would be. Give and take, a bit of patience and respect and there's room for all paces. For a small GRP cruiser, catching up with narrowboats is common, without creating a breaking wash and without going faster than walking pace, so it's reasonable to guess most of the steel tubes will be going way below the mythical 4mph mark. The 'speed limit' is written to protect the infrastructure, not an expected fixed pace for everyone. Boats should have the right to go slower, and similarly, boats going faster but still not too fast have the right to overtake in a safe place and manner. The slower boat isn't being selfish and shouldn't be expected to wave a boat past in an unsuitable spot. The OP didn't seem to be complaining about passing or speed per se but the nature of the overtaking, where there was little visibility, twisty with lots of vegetation etc. Just seemed a somewhat irresponsible place to attempt the move, and fairly pointless considering how little time the boat in question apparently gained.
  7. Not a rant there at all. It wasn't a working flyboat. He was a total, yeah you know. A winding bit so any malarkey like that is just stupid. No perfect speed, so he should get behind your speed, the idea of NBs going full tilt round shallow blind bends in a silted canal is ludicrous. I'd only really overtake on a canal if waved through or obviously necessary. Why the hurry for some people?
  8. I've left the vent open for a couple of weeks and the amount that leaves the tank is significant. Sunny day, vapour out, cold night intake air, rinse and repeat and the tank after months is eventually empty. If that goes into the air no probs; if it is left in a sealed cabin it equals a bomb.
  9. You can have not only the tank in the well but spare fuel in addition, total 27litres. For example, with a tiller steer outboard, a 12l main tank and a 5l fuel can, sitting directly in front of the engine, it is still less than 2/3 of the maximum portable fuel allowed. You have to sit next to the engine with hand over the tank to steer. When this boat was examined and passed in May only the 12l tank was there and it was the examiner who suggested a spare would fit in the remaining space. They can sit loose but the well has to drain overboard at its low point which this does. It was certainly easier to put them there than create a whole new box at one side to drain overboard. Putting the fuel tank on the cockpit floor would be a no-no obviously but I'm happy having it where it is in the well because the boat has an open cockpit with no canopy and no enclosing of the engine well with seating, the tank effectively sits in a tray open to the elements. You may sit next to it but you know petrol isn't getting into the bilges or vapour building up somewhere. The more confinement around fuel storage the more chance there will be of noticing smells when lifting lids, covers etc. Seating over the area is fine for BSS so long as fuel liquid and vapour can still drain overboard. Think of some boats like the Dawncraft where the outboard sits within the stern area rather than hanging off the back. Petrol storage is going to be within the confines of the canopy under the rear seating but still I don't see that many going bang if treated properly. We drive petrol cars, ride petrol bikes, use petrol tools; if respected dangers can be reduced on the water. My non canal boating over the years has often required small outboards and portable tanks for them and you just have to get used to sitting close to a very volatile liquid. As an example, since going from a diesel NB to this setup on the canal, I've given up the habit of a cigarette at the tiller!
  10. Ouch! thanks for confirming, 'heavier use and less DIY work undertaken would all add to the hypothetical BOAT contingency costs for sure.' I've seen mention of shares down around the £50-60/mo mark for 1/12 of something in the 50-60' range but I assumed complexity of boat, DIY contribution and any home mooring can account for a wide range of share boat running costs. Getting your costs down to £4k on your own boat shows how it is certainly possible to make significant savings without neglecting the boat. If £4k was my annual max budget (still for the ideal 55' and with 50% time aboard) I would be splitting it at approx £1250 licence, insurance and BSS, £500 dry dock, DIY blacking and a few marina days, no home mooring, £500 diesel, coal+gas, leaving £1750 for engine servicing, BOAT maintenance and contingency (nearly £150 per month so still a fair chunk of change). As a reference the leisure use 60' NB that we had until last year would probably need a barebones budget in 2019 of about £1250 licence, insurance and BSS, £2k mooring, £250 diesel, coal and gas and £1500 pa min towards dry dock, engine servicing ,maintenance & contingency, £5k or just over £400/mo in total but £500 would be healthier or £6k pa (£100/ft) tallying with Neil2's figure of £4.5k for 45'. We still did most of the work, there was no TV etc, little electrical demand as I could manage fine without the fridge on and it did relatively few miles each year so the engine didn't get many hours of use, a calorifier, woodburner and gas oven. In essence there was a lot less to go wrong than the complicated systems a modern liveaboard boat may now have but the two house batteries still needed replacing every couple of years, so say £75pa of the budget. I tend to want to go to a boat year round to de-stress, so hire/share alone wouldn't work for me. On the other hand, I only need a tiny boat to still allow year round fun and a budget of under £150/mo all in would cover licence, mooring, ins, BSS, slipways and petrol for a simple old GRP boat up to 23', but this is still at the camping boating end of the scale and in no way would I propose attempting to live full time on something so small, but some do. Electric hookups, marina laundries and club showers can make them far more comfortable but I can still happily spend a sunny week on boats even smaller, under 20', pootling, fettling and reading, without standing headroom, fixed electric or gas and away from the luxuries of a mooring. Just that life doesn't allow that too often when work needs doing in the real world! Liveaboard or not, CC'ers can remove home mooring costs. Rescue cover is an extra that some may not need/want. Engines and systems like to be run on a regular basis so 52wks on the boat isn't necessarily the worst thing if the engine isn't running as much as share/hire. Depends on mileage/power/engine hours, number and lifestyle of the crew. A couple with two dogs, travelling every day, and family members coming over all the time, will put a bit more wear and tear on a boat than the single person at work all day, just leaving their marina mooring once a week for a few miles. My suggested figure of around £2500 pa into the maintenance and contingency is on the high side but was also intended to build up a cash pot reserve over the years for those 'once in a lifetime' big problems. Once the contingency fund is large enough this budget could be reduced a bit until a big problem eats out a chunk of it. Of course (as MtB and others mentioned) you then have to get the maintenance and contingency pot prepared asap for the next 'once in a lifetime' problem. Liveaboard isn't by definition hammering a boat, more caring custodian. If you're on the boat all the time you can address the small things quickly - minor vent leaks before they become a pain in the posterior of badly stained ply headlining if you don't see or fix the leak for some time. Boats are definitely cases of a stitch in time saves nine. Doing as much DIY as you can/want to do but being prepared to pay for pro services when you need is essential to keeping costs down in the short and long term. I'm sure 90% of owners have a few jobs that they really should do on their boat, mostly trivial but safety, the hull and engine ones should always be prioritised, and most owners will. The more time on it, the more time available to dedicate to its maintenance with free labour (and with boatyard prices what they are, you need to do as much as you can). tldr; The OP's overall BOAT fund of up to £700/mo and up for the DIY side still seems to have a perfectly healthy budget for the boat, use and inclusions being proposed.
  11. Everybody's ideal boat for their lifestyle will be different so no figures are going to be one-size-fits-all. Possible to live on a 25' GRP cruiser, 50'NB, 60' widebeam. All and nobody's budgets are correct. So, being quick to point out some possible flaws in other posters' sums, I'll pin my figures to the mast and suggest my hypothetical necessary budget for my hypothetical perfect boat. Wouldn't want to liveaboard full time with no land base but would be on it round the year, half the time. The perfect boat at the moment would be approx 55'x6'10", modern build, modern engine, 20' two berth cabin, open canvas covered hold as workshop, bike & canoe storage etc, 100w solar panel on roof, 330Ah of house batts, small 12v fridge for summer, no TV, small inverter, no shoreline or 240v wiring, 12v wiring for engine, house lights etc, USB sockets, gas for stove/oven only, hot water from calorifier off engine, wood stove, northern mooring, out most of the time but not doing insane number of miles. I would do most work myself, barring the engine, below waterline welding and gas, it would be blacked by myself every second year but drydocked annually just to check below waterline, topsides painted DIY ongoing. For what some will think sounds a rather spartan use of a big steel hull, and for non liveaboard use, I would still expect to need to pay CRT fees under £1k Non-residential CRT or marina mooring of £1750-2.5k (up north) Insurance say £2-300 Rescue cover £2-300 (I appreciate a bit of help when things go wrong beyond my capabilities) Drydock days and a few days in marinas other than home mooring, say £500 per year (worked out over 2 yr DIY blacking cycle) BSS cert and minor bits for £60 per year (worked out over 4 year cycle) Engine servicing, basic filters, oil, grease, perished hoses etc DIY basis £120 Diesel <£500, coal <£150, gas <£150, cassette loo so no pumpout charges. Internet from tethering on existing phone, no TV, no shoreline electric costs. Things like food, phone bill, council tax etc that some liveaboards may include are part of my land life so are not included And on top of all that there would need to be the BOAT contingency fund of say £2500 per year and starting upfront with more. This would be to cover any necessary professional attention to engine, steelwork and gas. It would also cover DIY repairs, batteries, oils, paints, timber, broken pumps and plumbing, worn ropes, canvas, fenders, cabin internals and everything else. Unless the mooring was very expensive this would need to be the biggest expense in my calculations each year. If a surplus developed over the years greater than say the cost of supply and fitting of a new engine then monthly contribs to this could possibly be reduced a bit. All in these would add up to around £7500/yr or £625/mo and this would be a simple, non livedaboard boat! Currently in absolutely no position to get or run a boat like this but figures are based on experience of a few types of leisure boats and the cost of boating. More complicated systems, luxurious cabins, heavier use and less DIY work undertaken would all add to the hypothetical BOAT contingency costs for sure.
  12. If OP thinks of the colours of the boats, were the warmest perhaps those with the darker coloured topsides?
  13. As a share boat owner @robtheplod your boat will be active 48? weeks of the year so you can get a pretty good idea of boat running costs by multiplying out your existing annual costs and what they do/don't cover. I do suspect that those who are looking to liveaboard without any previous experience of boating costs (small boat outright or share) may seriously underestimate the costs of maintenance and upgrades. A big boat is not like a car, it's like a house and repairs/improvements cost serious money. If someone starts with a good 60-70' narrowboat they can probably get away with £50 a month on paint, plumbing, ropes, covers, woodwork, vents, batteries, electrics, for a short while as the boat deteriorates and then after some time something big will go wrong that demands 10 or 100 times that figure. This is the element that some seem to be overlooking but those individuals and syndicates with experience will be thinking of budgets over a period longer than a year.
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