Baton Twirlers Stage Protest (again)

[Alan de Enfield]

NBTA members 'taking the mickey' - perish the thought !

 

 

Boaters from across the UK will gather in London on Saturday to protest against “discriminatory” price rises they say threaten their way of life.

The National Bargee Travellers Association (NBTA) will stage a protest in Little Venice, west London, against plans to raise the cost of boat licences and introduce a surcharge on continuous cruisers, people who live on boats but do not have a home mooring where they stay for longer periods.

 

The decision from the Canal and Rivers Trust (CRT) was first announced in November 2023 and will come into force from April 1.

The trust said it needs funding to keep the waterways alive but the NBTA has labelled the measure “discriminatory” and said it will threaten the nomadic way of life.

NBTA secretary Marcus Trower, a continuous cruiser, said: “An escalating surcharge will increase the cost of a licence by 25% over four years.

 

“My licence currently costs £1,200, but with these changes that will up by more than a third in the next four years. And the worry is that if they are allowed to implement these changes now, how much more will they start charging in the future?

 

 

We believe it is the trust’s aim to reduce the number of boats without home moorings. We are being singled out and they don’t want us to exist.

“They genuinely seem to believe we are taking the mickey and think everyone should have one particular place to live. But the reality is we live a different way of life that suits us.

 

“On Saturday, we will show we are united in our fight against these plans.”

A few hundred people are expected to attend the protest, which was described as an Easter regatta, at the canal side exit of Paddington Station, near the bookable moorings.

Activists will stage a “unity march” to the nearby CRT offices while boaters deliver speeches, run craft stalls and provide live music.

 

Pamela Smith, chairwoman of the NBTA, said: “CRT’s latest attack on the travelling boater community is discriminatory, unpopular, financially illiterate and quite possibly unlawful – none of which comes as a surprise given the trust’s increasingly chaotic mismanagement and desperate attempts to distract from it in any way they can.

 

 

“This time, however, they’ve only strengthened the resolve of many in the boater community – both with and without home moorings – to resist their attempts to eradicate our whole way of life and demand one licence for all. Hundreds have actively joined the campaign of resistance so far and anger with the trust is at a fever pitch.

“The NBTA are helping to channel this energy and to ensure that – just like every other time CRT or British Waterways before them have tried to get rid of our community – we stand united, strong and victorious in our opposition.”

 

The CRT has been contacted for comment.

Boaters to stage protest over ‘discriminatory’ price rises (msn.com)

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

"NBTA secretary Marcus Trower, a continuous cruiser, said: “An escalating surcharge will increase the cost of a licence by 25% over four years."

 

They should be so lucky. Plenty of landies have seen their mortgage costs rise by 250%. 

 

25% rise spread over four years is barely more than inflation. In fact it's possibly less. 

Edited March 29 by MtB

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

 

Ok, ok , I’ll rise to it,

..…just not now,

 

I’m enjoying a 7% stout at a ridiculously expensive price,

 

£6 summat. 

 

But well done Alan de Enfield we’ve all (genuinely)been missing a good back to basics argument. 

The forums become a bit boring without one. 

 

Edited March 29 by beerbeerbeerbeerbeer

[magnetman]

Council tax is always a fun thing to pay. 

[mrsmelly]

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Council tax is always a fun thing to pay. 

Yes and mine is going up Eleven percent from Monday.

Life's a bitch, then you marry one then you die as the saying goes 🤪 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Council tax is always a fun thing to pay. 

I wouldn’t know. 
great way to conflate the issue,

 

[magnetman]

Just trying to get discussion going I don't pay either. 

[Arthur Marshall]

One of the worst things you can do as a "representative" of anything is to pick a fight you're bound to lose.

Does anyone still take the NBTA seriously? Fairly sure CRT don't.

[stagedamager]

in other news, local shops are reporting increases in sales of bed sheets and crayons as passive aggressive banners are being made along the length of the the towpath. Local cafes however have reported a drop in takings due to the remaining crayons being eaten........

[TheBiscuits]

18 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

Local cafes however have reported a drop in takings due to the remaining crayons being eaten........

 

Orange crayons are the tastiest.  Apparently.

 

Slightly more seriously, I own a "boat without a home mooring." (1995 British Waterways act)

 

"Continuous Cruiser" is a BW made up term that seems to have massive traction amongst certain segments of the (home mooring) boating community.  It doesn't exist except in Sally Ash's fevered imagination, and she's not there anymore.

 

I once had exactly this conversation with a former chair of the IWA who ended up agreeing with me.  Nice bloke, which is my standard definition of chaps who agree with me. 😁

 

Nearly all the disputes regarding CCers are about those who don't follow the trivial rules - and I can guarantee you that those of us who do comply are much angrier about those who don't than most owners of "boats with a home mooring."

 

As a thought exercise for the frothing at the mouth brigade, if I have two boats - one with a marina mooring and one without any home mooring - am I a "CCer" or not?  It's purely about the licence declaration for the boat, not the owner.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29 by TheBiscuits
clarity of quote

[Victor Vectis]

2 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 

Ok, ok , I’ll rise to it,

..…just not now,

 

I’m enjoying a 7% stout at a ridiculously expensive price,

 

£6 summat. 

 

But well done Alan de Enfield we’ve all (genuinely)been missing a good back to basics argument. 

The forums become a bit boring without one. 

 

Hmmmmm

 

OK. Where and what beer?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

16 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Hmmmmm

 

OK. Where and what beer?

That bar up by the Giraffe, they brew their own beer,

very good,

but I was eager to get home to drink another bottle of Batham’s I’d put aside

[Paul C]

45 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

As a thought exercise for the frothing at the mouth brigade, if I have two boats - one with a marina mooring and one without any home mooring - am I a "CCer" or not?  It's purely about the licence declaration for the boat, not the owner.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are, AND a home moorer. An analogy might be if one parks their car in a public street, then gets into a truck. You are still a "car owner" because you were the last one to have driven your car, so any penalties relating to excess parking, obstruction, no insurance or road tax etc will still apply. At the same time, you're also a truck driver because you are now in a truck, driving it.

 

CCer is a fairly neutral, commonplace term for "a boat(er) without a home mooring or other place..........blahblahblah" and is much easier to use in conversation. I don't think anything more than the distinction of the (no) home mooring arrangement, is applied by using the term.

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

“They genuinely seem to believe we are taking the mickey and think everyone should have one particular place to live. But the reality is we live a different way of life that suits us.

 

Welcome to the cost of living crisis!

Everyone is entitled to live their own way of life as long as it doesn't adversely affect others, but we should all expect to pay for that way of life.

[frangar]

They only seem to post on one canal fb group now….where their antics are regularly ridiculed and shot down…think they have been banned from most of them. 

[matty40s]

Crusading march up to the CRT offices (which will be shut for the Easter weekend)

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, MtB said:

 

They should be so lucky. Plenty of landies have seen their mortgage costs rise by 250%. 

 

25% rise spread over four years is barely more than inflation. In fact it's possibly less. 

But remember that inflationary increases are on top of the 25% over 5 years

10 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

I think you are, AND a home moorer. An analogy might be if one parks their car in a public street, then gets into a truck. You are still a "car owner" because you were the last one to have driven your car, so any penalties relating to excess parking, obstruction, no insurance or road tax etc will still apply. At the same time, you're also a truck driver because you are now in a truck, driving it.

 

CCer is a fairly neutral, commonplace term for "a boat(er) without a home mooring or other place..........blahblahblah" and is much easier to use in conversation. I don't think anything more than the distinction of the (no) home mooring arrangement, is applied by using the term.

IIRC the formal wording indicates that (a) a licence is for a boat and owner combination ie it is not transferable when it changes ownership and (b) the surcharge is on a licence for a boat for which the licensee does not have a place where it can be left (in practice for periods longer than 14 days although I think it just says not having a mooring at all)

 

With reference to distinctions, in some quarters saying that a boater has a 'shiny boat' is as much a term of conscious bias as is 'tupperware boat' for others! We all have our prejudices but the real point is whether we can control and moderate them.

[magnetman]

11 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

 

"Continuous Cruiser" is a BW made up term that seems to have massive traction amongst certain segments of the (home mooring) boating community.  It doesn't exist except in Sally Ash's fevered imagination....

It also exists on a .gov website. 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/energy-bill-support-if-you-do-not-get-it-automatically-continuous-cruisers

 

 

I would say if the .gov recognise the term then it is actually a real status. 

 

It may have started out as a colloquialism but this has since changed. 

[Rincewind]

11 hours ago, blackrose said:

Everyone is entitled to live their own way of life as long as it doesn't adversely affect others, but we should all expect to pay for that way of life.

 

Agreed.

If you want to live in a society and benefit from that society then surely it is only right for you to make a financial contribution to the upkeep of that society for the good of everyone including yourself.

Even CC'rs, no matter where in the country they roam, directly benefit from the taxes most of us pay to local councils, Cost of policing, Fire & Rescue, road upkeep, rubbish removal, street lighting etc. etc. the list goes on....

When you apply for a CC license are you not declaring to the world that you no longer wish to pay your fair contribution of taxes?

 

Perhaps its about time CRT only granted CC licenses when the applicant provides proof (receipt) that a local council tax, or substantial cash contribution, has been paid for that financial year to a Local Authority (of the applicants choice).

 

There would be plenty of empty visitor moorings available then! 

[alan_fincher]

14 hours ago, MtB said:

 

They should be so lucky. Plenty of landies have seen their mortgage costs rise by 250%. 

 

25% rise spread over four years is barely more than inflation. In fact it's possibly less. 

 

I'm no fan of the NBTA.  Having met and had conversations with Panda Smith and Marcus Trower I long ago formed my own opinions of what their agenda is.

 

HOWEVER, unless I'm missing something the 25% is not the amount by which their mooring fees will increase over 4 years, it is the amount that the surcharge will increase IN ADDITION TO the amount amount that licences will increase generally.  That is they will still pay the same increase as you or me, and this 25%  will be in addition to that.

 

Not quite the same thing at all.

 

Of course you also have the wide beam surcharge, so it seems that a "continous cruiser" with a fat boat gets a double whammy.

Edited March 30 by alan_fincher

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

14 hours ago, magnetman said:

Council tax is always a fun thing to pay. 

I hear Council Tax is going up, 👍

It’s been such a bargain for such a long time it’s well over due a good increase,

I always thought CT was supposed to reflect the value of the house?

perhaps CT ought to rise at the same rate as the value of the house?

[matty40s]

13 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

 

 

There would be plenty of empty visitor moorings available then! 

First time past Cosgrove since about 2017, unbelievable increase in CCers, through Wolverton to the aqueduct is a constant line of moored boats. 

[MtB]

38 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

HOWEVER, unless I'm missing something the 25% is not the amount by which their mooring fees will increase over 4 years, it is the amount that the surcharge will increase IN ADDITION TO the amount amount that licences will increase generally. 

 

The thing you are missing is few NBTA members pay ANY mooring fees, as far as I can see!

 

But I understand the point you meant to make. I just posted in an over-simplifed manner to make my own point that both mortgage-holders and renters living on the bank have seen far larger increases in their expenses than CCers and CMers. 

 

Boaters without a home mooring, even after the rises are applied, will still be enjoying the cheapest accommodation available in England and Wales by a long chalk so deserve little sympathy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30 by MtB
Finesse the point.

[Slim]

29 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

Perhaps its about time CRT only granted CC licenses when the applicant provides proof (receipt) that a local council tax, or substantial cash contribution, has been paid for that financial year to a Local Authority (of the applicants choice).

That's been my view for many a year but it's a dangerous one to voice on a forum such as this😷. Presenting a balanced view, the real 'villain' is the cock-eyed Council Tax system. Mind you, the whole tax system needs a radical overhaul but you'd need a dictatorship for that to happen.

[frangar]

I see the London centric BBC has fallen for their idiocy….thats another organisation that should be made to pay its way….and not by a stealth tax. 

Edited March 30 by frangar