Increasing water storage capacity

[viablesodium]

Hi there

 

We are looking at a narrow boat with a 300l stainless steel water tank (located in the bow I believe). This is going to be insufficient for 2 full time liveaboards.

 

We are exploring options for extending the water capacity of the boat (ideally to reach a total of around 600l+).

 

One idea is to add a plastic tank under the bed. Is this a good idea? Or alternatively how much is it likely to cost to add more capacity within the bow/ is this likely feasible?)

[matty40s]

Why is 300l not enough, there are plenty of taps along the way, if you take a mooring, there is usually a tap available.

Do you have a large bath?

[ditchcrawler]

Welcome to the forum, lots manage quite comfortably with that volume of water, why would a live aboard use any more water than anyone else.

[viablesodium]

Thanks for your replies. Ideally it would be good to have the option to last 2 weeks without topping it up. Is this feasible with 300l?

[blackrose]

I think I disagree with the others here. 300 litres is a tiny water tank and you'll forever be filling it up. If you're just living on a mooring with a water tap then that's fine but if you're cruising much stopping at every water point is going to be a pain especially when several other boats may be there before you filling their much larger tanks.

 

My own water tank holds 1,250l (wideass) and while Ditchy is correct that a liveaboard shouldn't consume more water than a hobbyist, the difference is as a liveaboard you are living with that restricted water storage capacity all the time, not just when you visit the boat. Also liveaboards might use more water if they have a washing machine onboard while others are taking their dirty clothes home to wash for example. 

 

I think the only potential problem of a large cold thermal mass under the bed is the amount of condensation it could attract in winter. You need to think about that.

Edited January 16 by blackrose

[David Mack]

If the bed is to one side of the boat a tank beneath will change the lateral trim of the boat as it varies between full and empty.

If you have two tanks arrange that the filler is connected to one tank, but the draw off is connected to the other, so that water is drawn through both tanks. If filler and draw off are connected to the same tank the water in the other may become stagnant.

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I think I disagree with the others here. 300 litres is a tiny water tank and you'll forever be filling it up. If you're just living on a mooring with a water tap then that's fine but if you're cruising much stopping at every water point is going to be a pain especially when several other boats may be there before you filling their much larger tanks.

 

My own water tank holds 1,250l (wideass) and while Ditchy is correct that a liveaboard shouldn't consume more water than a hobbyist, the difference is as a liveaboard you are living with that restricted water storage capacity all the time, not just when you visit the boat. Also liveaboards might use more water if they have a washing machine onboard while others are taking their dirty clothes home to wash for example. 

 

I think the only potential problem of a large cold thermal mass under the bed is the amount of condensation it could attract in winter. You need to think about that.

If the tank under the bed has some thermal insulation stuck to it and is enclosed -- like mine, which is stainless steel -- there should be no problem with condensation. Mine's on the boat centreline so it doesn't affect the lateral trim.

 

300l is small if you're going out cruising -- and if you have a washer or washer/dryer on board just one cycle will take a big chunk out of the capacity.

Edited January 16 by IanD

[LadyG]

When I was iced in I had to ask the pub to fill my container every day. I only had one, it was 5l, and I managed on that for about ten days. I did have a few showers, using a loofah glove to speed up the soaping up process.

I usually measure out every cup of tea in to the kettle, I wipe clean dishes with paper towels, that halves the washing up water, I tend to buy pre washed veg, little things like that save water. I will use a launderette, but when at the waterpoint I will do some extra, plus have a longer shower.

When I first got the boat I ran out frequently, but that never seems to happen anymore.

So, probably best to wait for a few months till you have adapted.

Edited January 16 by LadyG

[cheesegas]

I'd also say that 300 litres is uncomfortably small for a liveaboard. A non liveaboard is less likely to be out in winter and get stuck in the ice where a big water tank is helpful, and they're also less likely to have a washing machine onboard.

 

I've seen boats with tanks under the bed which listed when the tank was full/empty depending on how it was ballasted. Two smaller tanks, one either side with a balance pipe might be better?

 

There's two of us full time on our narrowboat, the 900 litre tank is ample - running the 3kg machine once a week, one shower a day and not being particularly careful with water usage gets us around 15 days from the tank. Shower gets turned off while you soap up of course! Helpful if we choose to stay in one spot for a fortnight, and if on the move it saves having to stop and fill after a week.

[booke23]

2 hours ago, viablesodium said:

Hi there

 

We are looking at a narrow boat with a 300l stainless steel water tank (located in the bow I believe). This is going to be insufficient for 2 full time liveaboards.

 

We are exploring options for extending the water capacity of the boat (ideally to reach a total of around 600l+).

 

One idea is to add a plastic tank under the bed. Is this a good idea? Or alternatively how much is it likely to cost to add more capacity within the bow/ is this likely feasible?)

 

It's certainly feasible, I considered putting a plastic tank under the bed in my boat. However there were a few problems:

 

I realised that due to the framework of the bed I'd only get an off the shelf 200 litre tank under there. If I had the bed rebuilt or commissioned a custom built tank I think 600 litres would have been possible but prices started spiraling when looking at these options.  

 

My plan would have been to arrange it as @David Mack suggests.....fill through the old tank connected to the plastic tank.....and draw off from the plastic tank. However the outlet on my stainless steel built in tank is 15mm, which would result in quite slow filling of the plastic tank. Probably ok if it was 200 litres but a pain if it was 600 litres.

 

The bed is at one side of the boat, so the boat would list with a 600 litre tank. Less so with a 200 litre tank. 

 

So in the end I didn't bother. 

 

A big tank is definitely better if you're living aboard, simply to give you more time should you get iced in or break down. However when you're cruising around it doesn't matter so much as you're always passing water points.....and there is a school of thought that no matter how big your tank is, it is good to fill up perhaps every few days so you're not spending hours at a time filling. 900 litres takes a long time to come out of a garden hose! 

 

 

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

If the tank under the bed has some thermal insulation stuck to it and is enclosed -- like mine, which is stainless steel -- there should be no problem with condensation. 

 

Yes I'd assumed everyone understood it would need to be insulated from my post.

 

Also, if you're ever contemplating going out onto tidal waters then make sure you empty any water tanks that have not been well secured to the boat. I've been out onto the tidal Thames through London in waves that knocked the boat around quite a lot. Any half full unbaffled tank could come loose in those conditions and cause a lot of damage. 

Edited January 17 by blackrose

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Depending on how the boat is trimmed, the extra weight of a full additional tank could end up trimming the boat bow down, with an impact on the boat's handling. Another thing to consider.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 hours ago, viablesodium said:

We are looking at a narrow boat with a 300l stainless steel water tank (located in the bow I believe). This is going to be insufficient for 2 full time liveaboards.

 

Or, as a radical alternative, look for a boat better equipped as a liveaboard.

There are many small differences between a 'leisure' boat and a 'residential' boat, the size of the water tank being only one of them, another worth investigating is the electrical set up, how many batteries does the leisure bank have?, is there room for more batteries ? does it have twin alternators, inverter size etc etc, Does it have a washing machine (or space for one) ? also consider the toilet set up - if it is a holding tank is it big enough, or if a cassette system does it have spare cassettes, and, space to store them ? , is the storage sufficient / suitable to hold all of your possessions and treasures - remember that everything you own will be on board and what you cannot fit in will have be be sold / given away.

[Bee]

We are a small boat at 10 metres and live on it through the summer in France, we have about 200 litres and with care that is sufficient, The UK system has plentiful water points compared to France. It is entirely possible to starve to death in France and be awfully thirsty as facilities can be scarce but if we get really low on water then bottled water from shops is usually available somewhere for drinking and we just seem to get by somehow. It is yet another thing, like unlimited electricity and dodgy TV reception that makes living on a boat more work than living in a house. How do small boats on long passages at sea manage I wonder?

[magnetman]

A couple of beer kegs can be useful. Stainless food grade 60 litre tanks. I just missed one the other day when the River was in flood. It was too dangerous to go out in the launch and retrieve it so I had to watch it float by. 

 

 

If there was room under the cratch one could have one each side. Cut a piece of wood for the top and it makes a handy seat. 

 

[cheesegas]

4 minutes ago, Bee said:

How do small boats on long passages at sea manage I wonder?

They have a watermaker - an appliance to desalinate sea water. Small sailing boats couldn’t possibly have the space to store all the water you need for a long passage otherwise. 

[magnetman]

 

Depending on behaviour one can use very little water.

 

I have a floccinaucinihilipilification of washing. Clothes get soaked in the sink with soapy water then rinsed and the self is kept moderately together by navy showers. 

 

 

 

My seagoing 30ft trawler does have 5 separate stainless steel tanks totalling about 1.5 tonnes of fresh water in addition to a settling tank and filtration plant. 

 

I believe it was designed to survive the nuclear war. 

 

 

[system 4-50]

I put 2 x 400L plastic tanks (the ones with the 8" lids) under my fixed 140 x 200cm fixed bed in my narrowboat.  It made the bed slightly higher than usual so positions 473 and 892 were no longer possible due the relatively slightly lower ceiling.   It left a narrow but workable side passage, and the tanks were nearly central on the boat's axis.  A very slight list was detectable between absolutely full and totally empty if you knew to look for it.  I insulated it with 1" Celotex underneath, all round, and on top, and had no problems with condensation.  I never got around to changing the initial single 15mm supply system (which was also throttled by a cheap electric valve) to something bigger which meant it took about 1hr 20m for a complete refill.  No way I would have wanted to try to exist on 300L even on my own.  I had a WMC and shower, and no bath.  And an aversion to built-in tanks with coated interiors.

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

 It made the bed slightly higher than usual so positions 473 and 892 were no longer possible due the relatively slightly lower ceiling.

 

Have you worked your way thru the whole book ?

[rusty69]

51 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Have you worked your way thru the whole book ?

He certainly got as far as chapter 4 section 50. Probably has a system in place.

[MrsM]

Needs the latest edition. Chapter 8:Working in Confined Spaces (up to 4 people)

[Crewcut]

4 hours ago, cheesegas said:

They have a watermaker - an appliance to desalinate sea water. Small sailing boats couldn’t possibly have the space to store all the water you need for a long passage otherwise. 

 

Not very many do have a watermaker actually, those things cost thousands and need careful maintenance. Carrying bottled water is how most small boats supplement what they have in their tank or tanks which will usually be no more than a couple of hundred litres. We are extremely careful about how we use water when on passage. Some use part sea water for cooking the likes of pasta & spuds, e.g...

[IanD]

15 hours ago, cheesegas said:

I'd also say that 300 litres is uncomfortably small for a liveaboard. A non liveaboard is less likely to be out in winter and get stuck in the ice where a big water tank is helpful, and they're also less likely to have a washing machine onboard.

 

I've seen boats with tanks under the bed which listed when the tank was full/empty depending on how it was ballasted. Two smaller tanks, one either side with a balance pipe might be better?

 

There's two of us full time on our narrowboat, the 900 litre tank is ample - running the 3kg machine once a week, one shower a day and not being particularly careful with water usage gets us around 15 days from the tank. Shower gets turned off while you soap up of course! Helpful if we choose to stay in one spot for a fortnight, and if on the move it saves having to stop and fill after a week.

 

A tank about 2' wide x 6' long down the centreline under the bed doesn't make the boat list, and depending on depth will hold something like 400l -- the 2' wide space behind it can be used for storage.

 

On my boat, add that to a 500l bow tank and for sure the bows drop a couple of inches between empty and full... 😉

[Alan de Enfield]

32 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

Not very many do have a watermaker actually, those things cost thousands and need careful maintenance.

 

Small watermakers for a couple of people are available hand operated for a "a couple of £100" on ebay but it is best to renew the filters.

The 1-6 person hand operated 'life raft'' watermakers are fine but only produce about 0.5 litres per hour so would keep you alive but you probably sweat more than the water you produce. They are (new) around the £1000 area.

 

I don't think that £1000 is much in the greater sheme of things if you are blue-water sailing.

 

There is an unused miltary surplus Katadyn 35 on ebay (1.25 litres per hour) for £252 + shipping

Edited January 17 by Alan de Enfield

[BWM]

Have a look under the well deck, as most integral tanks are right in the pointy bit and there is often storage space under the deck behind it. As someone pointed out, check all other requirements are met, if not, another craft will definitely be a better alternative as multiple modifications are both expensive and a compromise.