Government CRT funding statement

[Tim Lewis]

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2023-07-10/hcws924

[Sea Dog]

Is that good news or is it bad news dressed up as good news?

[Tim Lewis]

£40m a year is considerably less than the current grant

[IanD]

Well it's got the usual privatisation-by-stealth waffle in it:

 

"Since it was first created in 2012, as a private charity independent of government, we have been very clear that the Trust would have to increasingly move towards alternative sources of funding. We have been discussing this with the charity for some time and have been offering support on how it can increase income from other sources, alongside continued government funding, which countless charities across the country do very effectively."

 

In other words -- Hey guys, we're going to give you less money, so here are some ideas about how the get the private sector involved. They probably won't work but that's not our problem... 😞

 

See NHS, teachers, social work... 😞

[TheBiscuits]

Whilst there is no obligation for government to fund the Canal & River Trust beyond 2027 I can confirm that, subject to certain conditions being met, government will offer a new long term funding package of over £400 million to the Trust.

 

The devil will be in the detail as usual ...

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

But hasn't it been pointed out on the forum that it doesn't meet the legal requirements for a charity because it is not truly independant from the government?  ? 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ronaldo47

[Alan de Enfield]

That does not bode well for the future of the canals.

 

For whatever reasons C&RT have been unable to 'keep their heads above water' with what they can raise from other sources along side a £55m annual grant.

 

A 27% drop (£15m pa) in the grant is going to make it even worse.

 

I guess the 'consultation' on licence fees (CCers, fat boats etc) will now announce the conclusions and I expect to see very large increases for not only the 'non-movers', 'liveaboards' and 'fat boats' but for the standard 'leisure narrowboats' as well.

It wouldn't surprise me to see plannes closures or abandonment of some of the lesser used canals on the extremities of the system.

 

Enjoy the next few years whilst you can.

[GUMPY]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

wouldn't surprise me to see plannes closures or abandonment of some of the lesser used canals on the extremities of the system.

I used to say the K&A would be the first to go. It's probably going to be the HNC now.

[magnetman]

21 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Whilst there is no obligation for government to fund the Canal & River Trust beyond 2027 I can confirm that, subject to certain conditions being met, government will offer a new long term funding package of over £400 million to the Trust.

 

The devil will be in the detail as usual ...

 

 

It would be interesting to know what the 'certain conditions' are. 

 

More hard surfaced towpaths? 

 

Wheelchair access ramps? 

 

Getting rid of the pikey boats? 

 

Widening canals for freight use. 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That does not bode well for the future of the canals.

 

For whatever reasons C&RT have been unable to 'keep their heads above water' with what they can raise from other sources along side a £55m annual grant.

 

A 27% drop (£15m pa) in the grant is going to make it even worse.

 

I guess the 'consultation' on licence fees (CCers, fat boats etc) will now announce the conclusions and I expect to see very large increases for not only the 'non-movers', 'liveaboards' and 'fat boats' but for the standard 'leisure narrowboats' as well.

It wouldn't surprise me to see plannes closures or abandonment of some of the lesser used canals on the extremities of the system.

 

Enjoy the next few years whilst you can.

 

All of which assumes the current government remains in power, which seems highly unlikely. Maybe a Labour government will place more emphasis on funding things like infrastructure and heritage and the NHS, who knows...

 

Your needle's stuck on the last line -- repeated gloating about oncoming canal doom from somebody who moved off the canals because they didn't like them any more isn't exactly coming from an impartial observer, is it? 😉

[magnetman]

Just now, GUMPY said:

I used to say the K&A would be the first to go. It's probably going to be the HNC now.

I've always said it would be the K&A as it is not part of a 'ring' for most boaters. 

Interesting to watch what happens. 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, GUMPY said:

I used to say the K&A would be the first to go. It's probably going to be the HNC now.

 

It's probably the most obvious candidate -- except IIRC CART would then have to pay back millions of pounds to the bodies who funded the restoration and to whom they guaranteed it would stay open for many years, which would dwarf any cost savings from closing it... 😞

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

It's probably the most obvious candidate -- except IIRC CART would then have to pay back millions of pounds to the bodies who funded the restoration and to whom they guaranteed it would stay open for many years, which would dwarf any cost savings from closing it... 😞

As usual, when trying to predict what CaRT will do, people assume that what CaRT decides is going to make some sort of sense.

[doratheexplorer]

I would think it more likely that CRT will bury their heads in the sand and just allow all their waterways to deteriorate.  Closing a specific canal would be a tricky thing to justify to all the canal-dependent businesses along its length.  I'd predict a major uproar if a canal was to simply close, but maybe that's what's needed.

 

 

[magnetman]

It could be an interesting shock tactic to apply for ministerial approval to transfer an existing 'cruiseway' to 'remainder' status then simply withdraw maintenance. 

 

I believe it is in the powers of the CRT to do this but this may be incorrect and I would welcome correction. 

 

Maybe this is what is meant by 'certain conditions'. 

 

Cut your coat according to your cloth?

Is the government suggesting that some parts of the canal network need to close in order to protect the core parts?

[magpie patrick]

48 minutes ago, IanD said:

Well it's got the usual privatisation-by-stealth waffle in it:

 

"Since it was first created in 2012, as a private charity independent of government, we have been very clear that the Trust would have to increasingly move towards alternative sources of funding. We have been discussing this with the charity for some time and have been offering support on how it can increase income from other sources, alongside continued government funding, which countless charities across the country do very effectively."

 

In other words -- Hey guys, we're going to give you less money, so here are some ideas about how the get the private sector involved. They probably won't work but that's not our problem... 😞

 

See NHS, teachers, social work... 😞

 

On this occasion Ian, I agree with you entirely! The entire CRT set up has been about getting canals "off the books"  and making them someone else's problem, and as you point out, not the first time that strategy has been used.

32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me to see plannes closures or abandonment of some of the lesser used canals on the extremities of the system.

 

 

That could depend on the conditions - one might well be "no canal closures" 

10 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I would think it more likely that CRT will bury their heads in the sand and just allow all their waterways to deteriorate.  Closing a specific canal would be a tricky thing to justify to all the canal-dependent businesses along its length.  I'd predict a major uproar if a canal was to simply close, but maybe that's what's needed.

 

This is quite likely, as one of the bigger problems (leaving aside the uproar) is that the least used parts of the system are also often the least expensive to maintain, not because they are little used*, but because they are uninteresting

*there is an optimum level of use of canal at which it is easiest to maintain - unused lock gates fall apart faster than ones that take a hammering for example

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

As usual, when trying to predict what CaRT will do, people assume that what CaRT decides is going to make some sort of sense.

If CART are trying to save money, they're not going to close the HNC (or anywhere else) if the net result is that its costs them money...

 

Whether it makes sense is a different thing entirely... 😉

[Tonka]

what is most likely to happen is that charities like the Shropshire Union Canal Society and the Birmingham Canal Navigation Society will be expected to do more maintenance. 

[system 4-50]

So which canal is this forum going to buy up first?   And how long before they are on sale at £1 each?  I'm prepared to put £50 into the kitty despite not owning my boat anymore.

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

The devil will be in the detail as usual ...

 

 

I followed the link to the detail and it quoted Therese Coffe. Are you sayin'... 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Sea Dog
Quote trimmed

[David Mack]

"Whilst there is no obligation for government to fund the Canal & River Trust beyond 2027..."

 

But , as I understand it, if CRT is unable to operate and maintain the waterways with the resources available to it, it has the option to hand them back to government, in which case the obligation to fund the waterways does indeed fall to government...

[Rob-M]

Just received this email sent out to volunteers...

 

Our Response to the Government Grant Review
12 June 2023
A message from the Canal & River Trust - 10th July 2023
We have been waiting to hear the outcome of the Government Grant Review for some time now as you know and – without any warning – Defra has made an announcement today.

 

As you know, we receive £52.6m each year in grant from Government in an agreement that was put in place when the Trust was first created in 2012, and which runs until March 2027. This provides almost one quarter (25%) of our annual income.

 

Under the current agreement we receive no allowance for inflation in the period from 2021 to 2027 and hence the value of our grant funding has been significantly impacted by the high inflation we’ve all suffered over the past two years. By 2027 we expect the total value of the grant in real terms (that is, after allowing for inflation) to have fallen by nearly 30%. When this is combined with the increased work required to address the resilience of our ageing infrastructure to keep it safe we face very difficult financial challenges over the next few years.

 

We had hoped this would be reflected in the future grant review. Disappointingly, Government has announced that our public funding will instead reduce year-on-year from 2027 onwards, with grant payments declining by 5% each year. It will start by falling to £50 million in 2027/28 and then reduce in steps to reach £31.5 million in 2036/37 with no adjustment for any inflation. This means that the real value of the grant will decline even more steeply. We calculate that – when compared with 2020/21 (when the annual grant was first set at £52.6m) – this will be a real-term reduction of over £300 million over the ten years. 

 

We should acknowledge that there are some positive aspects of today’s announcement. There was no legal obligation on Government to continue its funding after our initial grant agreement expires and we have successfully demonstrated that there is a strong case for funding to continue given the scale of benefits the Trust delivers. We have convinced Government that another long-term agreement is justified given the significant national infrastructure in our care, with Government committing to a new 10 year grant agreement, up until March 2037.

 

The Review also confirms that funding for the Trust represents ‘clear value for money’ with canals shown to deliver substantial benefits to the economy, to people and communities, and to nature and biodiversity.

 

However, this makes the future grant levels announced even more disappointing. 

 

What now?

It is important to note that grant is only 25% of our income and we can focus our efforts on increasing the income we generate from other sources; indeed strong growth is already assumed in our long-term plan.  We must also manage our work efficiently and innovatively to find ways to reduce costs, building on the current Operations & Maintenance review.  Nevertheless, we are issuing a warning today that such a steep reduction in grant will inevitably lead to a decline in the condition of the network and the alarming prospect of canal closures. 

 

What we’re going to do…

We know that this isn’t the outcome that millions of people would want and so today we are launching a campaign to change this decision. This won’t happen immediately so we need to plan for this to run for several months. We are determined to fight to reinstate the funding and – with nearly four years to run on our current agreement - we think we can successfully achieve this. With the prospect of a general election next year, and a new government (of whatever party) in place, with a fresh five-year term, we believe the case for providing sufficient funding for the nation’s canals, and all the benefits they deliver, will be overwhelming.

 

I know this will cause many of you to be concerned about the future. I know how passionate you are for the canals and the work we do. But we should not be discouraged. Rather we will re-double our efforts to make our case even more convincingly.

 

I am sure this will pose lots of questions and I will share a video message later. Our conversations on this announcement will continue over the coming weeks.

 

What we are asking the public to do…

We're now reaching out to all of our different users, partners and supporters, asking them to join us in our mission to #KeepCanalsAlive. We are urging them to take action by emailing their local MP, letting them know how important canals are to them, for nature and for future generations - and the consequences of funding cuts to canals will have in their community.

 

They can send an email to their local MP in a few easy steps by clicking here. We are providing you with this information so you can answer any questions or queries you may receive.

 

Finally, please be assured that there is no immediate impact from this announcement on our work today or our plans for the year ahead.  The reduction in grant funding does not come into effect until 2027 and the great work we all do must continue.  People and communities, the history we are entrusted with, and the nature we provide for, are all depending on us to care for the waterways and to ensure their future.

 

We're getting some dates together as soon as possible for you to join us in some online calls to find out more and come together with us.

 

Thank you for your commitment to the Trust and the vital work we do.

 

Richard

[DShK]

I'm going to go against the doom and gloom and say this seems like, in the face of everything, a more positive outcome than could have been faced. There is still funding. It could have been zero. That would have been much worse. And considering the turbulent place the country is in, it seems a fairly good outcome.

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Just received this email sent out to volunteers...

 

Our Response to the Government Grant Review
12 June 2023
A message from the Canal & River Trust - 10th July 2023
We have been waiting to hear the outcome of the Government Grant Review for some time now as you know and – without any warning – Defra has made an announcement today.

 

As you know, we receive £52.6m each year in grant from Government in an agreement that was put in place when the Trust was first created in 2012, and which runs until March 2027. This provides almost one quarter (25%) of our annual income.

 

Under the current agreement we receive no allowance for inflation in the period from 2021 to 2027 and hence the value of our grant funding has been significantly impacted by the high inflation we’ve all suffered over the past two years. By 2027 we expect the total value of the grant in real terms (that is, after allowing for inflation) to have fallen by nearly 30%. When this is combined with the increased work required to address the resilience of our ageing infrastructure to keep it safe we face very difficult financial challenges over the next few years.

 

We had hoped this would be reflected in the future grant review. Disappointingly, Government has announced that our public funding will instead reduce year-on-year from 2027 onwards, with grant payments declining by 5% each year. It will start by falling to £50 million in 2027/28 and then reduce in steps to reach £31.5 million in 2036/37 with no adjustment for any inflation. This means that the real value of the grant will decline even more steeply. We calculate that – when compared with 2020/21 (when the annual grant was first set at £52.6m) – this will be a real-term reduction of over £300 million over the ten years. 

 

We should acknowledge that there are some positive aspects of today’s announcement. There was no legal obligation on Government to continue its funding after our initial grant agreement expires and we have successfully demonstrated that there is a strong case for funding to continue given the scale of benefits the Trust delivers. We have convinced Government that another long-term agreement is justified given the significant national infrastructure in our care, with Government committing to a new 10 year grant agreement, up until March 2037.

 

The Review also confirms that funding for the Trust represents ‘clear value for money’ with canals shown to deliver substantial benefits to the economy, to people and communities, and to nature and biodiversity.

 

However, this makes the future grant levels announced even more disappointing. 

 

What now?

It is important to note that grant is only 25% of our income and we can focus our efforts on increasing the income we generate from other sources; indeed strong growth is already assumed in our long-term plan.  We must also manage our work efficiently and innovatively to find ways to reduce costs, building on the current Operations & Maintenance review.  Nevertheless, we are issuing a warning today that such a steep reduction in grant will inevitably lead to a decline in the condition of the network and the alarming prospect of canal closures. 

 

What we’re going to do…

We know that this isn’t the outcome that millions of people would want and so today we are launching a campaign to change this decision. This won’t happen immediately so we need to plan for this to run for several months. We are determined to fight to reinstate the funding and – with nearly four years to run on our current agreement - we think we can successfully achieve this. With the prospect of a general election next year, and a new government (of whatever party) in place, with a fresh five-year term, we believe the case for providing sufficient funding for the nation’s canals, and all the benefits they deliver, will be overwhelming.

 

I know this will cause many of you to be concerned about the future. I know how passionate you are for the canals and the work we do. But we should not be discouraged. Rather we will re-double our efforts to make our case even more convincingly.

 

I am sure this will pose lots of questions and I will share a video message later. Our conversations on this announcement will continue over the coming weeks.

 

What we are asking the public to do…

We're now reaching out to all of our different users, partners and supporters, asking them to join us in our mission to #KeepCanalsAlive. We are urging them to take action by emailing their local MP, letting them know how important canals are to them, for nature and for future generations - and the consequences of funding cuts to canals will have in their community.

 

They can send an email to their local MP in a few easy steps by clicking here. We are providing you with this information so you can answer any questions or queries you may receive.

 

Finally, please be assured that there is no immediate impact from this announcement on our work today or our plans for the year ahead.  The reduction in grant funding does not come into effect until 2027 and the great work we all do must continue.  People and communities, the history we are entrusted with, and the nature we provide for, are all depending on us to care for the waterways and to ensure their future.

 

We're getting some dates together as soon as possible for you to join us in some online calls to find out more and come together with us.

 

Thank you for your commitment to the Trust and the vital work we do.

 

Richard

Will that be the same government that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing? 😞

[David Mack]

So despite all the negotiation between CRT and government, CRT have been caught off-guard by the announcement. That shows something of the contempt they are held in by ministers!

Two other points I have noted. Firstly CRT are now acknowledging that closures might be a part of balancing the books. And secondly, the battle isn't really with the current government. As with so many other aspects of politics at the moment, CRT are looking to a future Labour government for a better settlement. Just another example of how irrelevant the current government is for the next year to 18 months!