Bowthruster usage

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Was it a JCB

 

 

See this from 1 minute 40 seconds - and 5min 05 seconds as the current drives them towards the rocks -  JCB as steering, bow thruster & propulsion

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Ex Brummie]

On 08/09/2022 at 15:41, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Getting more technical now (had to look up a Schilling rudder) but I would have thought that having a bulbous shaped rudder (Schilling)

And I thought that 34 years ago, the builder of my boat had just welded 2 steel plates with a bump in the middle to take the tiller rod.

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Was it a JCB

 You're not far out - the hydraulic components did come from a JCB.  👍

 

Tam

Edited September 12, 2022 by Tam & Di

[ditchcrawler]

55 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 You're not far out - the hydraulic components did come from a JCB.  👍

 

Tam

See I did remember some of the stuff you told me 20 years ago even if I couldn't get the hang of leaving the engine stop pulled out 😀

[Dharl]

On 10/09/2022 at 12:28, cuthound said:

 

I agree. For 40 years I only steered boats without bow thrusters, so know how to handle a boat. Then 9 years ago I bought a boat that happened to have one fitted.

 

I mainly use it for reversing but occasionally use it to help turn the boat around if it is tight or windy.

 

I think in the 10 years i have been on the cut there has been a handful of times that I think to myself that a Bow Thruster would have been useful there! Normally it has been getting in/out of tight marina spots. 

 

 

[hypnoticmonkey]

Definitely an interesting read, this thread. I don't have a huge amount of experience in boating, but I've been on a handful of boating holidays and always had boats that didn't have bow thrusters. When you speak to others on the water I always picked up a snootiness about them, like it wasn't "real boating". I kind of get it that if I can start out with 0 experience and manage fine controlling and manoeuvring the boat without them, then they're not entirely necessary. Although, I've always taken the view that why make life harder for yourself if you don't have to? As I say, never used them myself, but I'd be interested to try. 

Hired a boat for a week in Ireland last year that was a lot bigger than I was expecting. The number of times that week I heard people saying "boat that big, I'm guessing you've got thrusters?" and it was always, "no..." followed by pained looks on the faces. Managed that fine without though!

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, hypnoticmonkey said:

Definitely an interesting read, this thread. I don't have a huge amount of experience in boating, but I've been on a handful of boating holidays and always had boats that didn't have bow thrusters. When you speak to others on the water I always picked up a snootiness about them, like it wasn't "real boating". I kind of get it that if I can start out with 0 experience and manage fine controlling and manoeuvring the boat without them, then they're not entirely necessary. Although, I've always taken the view that why make life harder for yourself if you don't have to? As I say, never used them myself, but I'd be interested to try. 

Hired a boat for a week in Ireland last year that was a lot bigger than I was expecting. The number of times that week I heard people saying "boat that big, I'm guessing you've got thrusters?" and it was always, "no..." followed by pained looks on the faces. Managed that fine without though!

 

Bow thrusters are never *essential* if you're reasonably good at boat handling, and certainly shouldn't be used all the time or as a routine substitute for the rudder -- and it's this type of boater that leads to the snootiness.

 

But there are occasions when they can be useful, usually involving crosswinds or currents when the room to manoeuvre is restricted, especially when reversing.

 

If people choose to not have them because they're not traditional, that's their decision, and that's fine. If people choose to have them to help in the above cases that's fine too, they're just another optional boating feature like a TV or washing machine.

 

Steering down the canal with the thruster buzzing left and right all the time -- that's not fine... 😉

Edited September 15, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Bow thrusters are never *essential*

If they are thats the time they will fail

[hypnoticmonkey]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

If they are thats the time they will fail

 

Someone once said to me that if you ever want evidence that machines will not rise up and beat us, just look at how frequently they fail.

I've always thought that this misses the point that this could be evidence that they've already started to rise up and beat us...

[IanD]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

If they are thats the time they will fail

You could say exactly the same about an engine, or a bilge pump, or a water pump, or heating, or... 😉

 

Why do domestic heating boilers always break down just before Xmas? 😞

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

You could say exactly the same about an engine, or a bilge pump, or a water pump, or heating, or... 😉

 

Why do domestic heating boilers always break down just before Xmas? 😞

Is your heating essential, or nice to have, My bilge pump hasn't run for a year, I wouldn't want to rely on it to keep my boat afloat so is that essential. If you can't steer without using the thruster then when you need it, thats when it will suck the bag in. If you can steer then that is not essential but handy to have. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Funny how the gas always runs out when you are cooking.  Oh, of course that is when I am using it, it never runs out when you are not using it of course.

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

Steering down the canal with the thruster buzzing left and right all the time --

 

 

The sound of a bow thruster screeching away in the far distance always sounds to me like the mating call of a shiny narrowboat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by MtB
Fiddle with it...

[magnetman]

The problem with bowthrusters is fairly basic. Some people (not all) will learn how to handle a boat assuming there is a bowthruster available if they have one. It appears to be an easier option but in reality it takes away a lot of the enjoyment and cerebral exercise involved in handling a boat. Anticipation, planning, helmsmanship etc. 

 

It also means that in the event of failure you are not competent to control the vessel. Bad news. 

 

On balance if I was specifying a new boat I would put a Very Good bowthruster in but the idea would be to never use it because it is basically not needed. 

Fire it up every now and then but definitely don't use it in the course of boating. On that one in a thousand very windy day where it could save your bacon you use it. I have yet to have one of those days on canal or Thames boating up and down long distances with no crew in various different heavy boats. A bowthruster would have helped but it was by no means needed. 

 

I did end up in the trees on a 72ft narrow boat once while turning  and got pinned by wind in the barge enough to need to reverse out and turn around so sometimes it could be useful I suppose. 

 

There are always alternatives.

 

Bigger boats can benefit from these and of course ferries etc have side thrusters and all sorts of clever gear but on a canal boat you basically don't need one.  Its not a snooty thing its just a fact. 

 

There should be some sort of interlock on a bowthruster fitted to a new boat which won't allow the owner to use it until they have put a couple of hundred hours of cruising in on the main engine and learnt how to drive the boat with no bowthruster. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by magnetman

[robtheplod]

i mainly use mine if i forget to push the front of the boat out when leaving a mooring..... lazy i know!

Edited September 15, 2023 by robtheplod

[Momac]

52 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Fire it up every now and then but definitely don't use it in the course of boating. On that one in a thousand very windy day where it could save your bacon you use it.

 

I think you may  find in a very windy day a bow thruster is not much use .

I had that experience recently. The wind won.

 

[Rob-M]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

i mainly use mine if i forget to push the front of the boat out when leaving a mooring..... lazy i know!

Push the stern out and reverse, then the bows will swing out or you are far enough away at the stern you can steer the bows out.  Or use a spring to move the bows out if there isn't room to reverse far.

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

The sound of a bow thruster screeching away in the far distance always sounds to me like the mating call of a shiny narrowboat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that mating call suggests that it may be more likely to mount you than the other way around! 

[Victor Vectis]

Watching PS 'Waverley' use a stern spring to move away from Ryde Pier Head this week has been impressive.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Watching PS 'Waverley' use a stern spring to move away from Ryde Pier Head this week has been impressive.

Must be a complete pig to manouevre, both paddles are attached to one shaft so the turning circle is enormous with no prop pushing water over the rudder. And no bow thrusters, obviously... 😉

 

Might explain why it's had several collisions with assorted piers and rocks over the years, most recently in 2020:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-54011504

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

23 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Push the stern out and reverse, then the bows will swing out or you are far enough away at the stern you can steer the bows out.  Or use a spring to move the bows out if there isn't room to reverse far.

I tried following your advice for when leaving a lock landing, remember?

Well, I got very quickly wedged in the bank on my first try. 
Trust me to use a lock landing with broken planking/rubbing strakes. 
 

You can explain again tomorrow 👍
 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Goliath

[Dharl]

32 minutes ago, IanD said:

Must be a complete pig to manouevre, both paddles are attached to one shaft so the turning circle is enormous with no prop pushing water over the rudder. And no bow thrusters, obviously... 😉

in a nut shell yes she is a challenge! In my day job she paid a visit to my neck of the woods.    Planned to moor in the lock entrance to the docks, to achieve this she has to maintain half ahead until her bow is already in the entrance when she goes astern to stop within half a ships length! Nicely done but nerve racking when they are aiming for your real estate!     Later calls I was on the bridge and even more nerve racking!! 
 

Leaving that berth they just let go the lines and rang down half astern and go until they had sufficient sea room to come ahead with the helm over and head the right way!  We used a tug to help with the manoeuvre.  

[ditchcrawler]

50 minutes ago, IanD said:

Must be a complete pig to manouevre, both paddles are attached to one shaft so the turning circle is enormous with no prop pushing water over the rudder. And no bow thrusters, obviously... 😉

 

Might explain why it's had several collisions with assorted piers and rocks over the years, most recently in 2020:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-54011504

That is why they have a tug when she winds in the Pool at London. They did have plans for rebuilding the bow rudder a few years back to help Heritage Rebuild - Completion Phase 2003 | Paddle Steamer Preservation Society (paddlesteamers.org)

[blackrose]

On 16/09/2023 at 00:14, MartynG said:

I think you may  find in a very windy day a bow thruster is not much use .

I had that experience recently. The wind won.

 

 

Yes I don't know where people get this idea that BTs are useful in high wind or current? They're not and also won't help if the boat is moving at any speed. They're only useful for slow, close quarters handling and reversing over distance.

[magnetman]

I didn't mean while the boat was moving I was referring to getting away from the side when pinned. 

 

I'm sure it could assist in this scenario. If one is single handed, windy day, boat pinned to the side. Walk to front push it out walk to back and the front has gone back in. It is a typical scene. 

 

Without a secure bollard to reverse onto with a line to the stern dolly I do believe a bowthruster could be very useful in this situation. 

 

They definitely are not for steering when going forwards. That should be obvious. 

 

 

In two trips from Limehouse to Lechlade and back in my 57x12ft barge there was only one occasion where I did actually want a bowthruster. Pinned to the bank by the wind after mooring overnight. 

 

The solution in the end (it was Windy) was to reverse out, let the wind blow the boat round go the other way then turn around in a sheltered area then come back up. 

 

No one died but a bowthruster would have been handy.