Wanderer Vagabond Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Loddon said: Personally never had a problem reversing my narrow boat, it seems to go where I want it to. But then I watch where the bow is going rather than the stern 2 hours ago, MtB said: Me too. In fact I spend 90% of the time looking forward to detect the beginnings of the boat turning the wrong way. Once it starts, immediate full rudder is needed to counter the turning beginning but sometimes I'm too late and have to engage ahead, and the boat needs to completely stop before the rudder will bite again to straighten the boat up. doing this a few times in a 1/4 mile reverse take an absolute age when a BT would straighten the boat in a few seconds. Sometimes I can do a 1/4 mile reverse in one go. Other times the same reverse needs 7 or 8 "stops and straighten-ups". I find it all rather depends on the depth of water you are working in. On a river such as the Thames or Trent when you are generally in deep water, it is possible to correct the boat as soon as it begins to stray off course (yes I also spend 90% of the time watching the bows rather than looking behind) but on a shallower canal you need to be dead centre of the u-shaped channel before you start and as soon as the boat goes off that line you will be getting more drag on the shallower side which then accentuates the turn and is impossible to rectify without stopping and re-setting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said: I find it all rather depends on the depth of water you are working in. On a river such as the Thames or Trent when you are generally in deep water, it is possible to correct the boat as soon as it begins to stray off course (yes I also spend 90% of the time watching the bows rather than looking behind) but on a shallower canal you need to be dead centre of the u-shaped channel before you start and as soon as the boat goes off that line you will be getting more drag on the shallower side which then accentuates the turn and is impossible to rectify without stopping and re-setting. So what you're all saying is that reversing would be easier with a bow thruster... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Vagabond Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, IanD said: So what you're all saying is that reversing would be easier with a bow thruster... 😉 It would make no difference in deep water since I can steer backwards OK in that. For me it just makes an unnecessary complication, illustrated recently when assisting someone at a lock. The boat had drifted diagonally in the lock and the lady on the helm asked the bloke I was working the lock with whether she should use the BT to straighten it up (seemingly an ideal use ). His response was,"No, don't touch the BT with this weed in the lock, last time it took me 30 minutes to clear it". He served the purpose by simply pushing the bow for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, IanD said: So what you're all saying is that reversing would be easier with a bow thruster... 😉 I am, certainly. I've said it several times already in this thread and people keep arguing with me about it!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam & Di Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Not necessarily easier, but certainly more reliably. In most situations there is no problem if you get the right speed and with the rudder at the right angle. Canal profile or sudden side winds can intervene and make life difficult, and that is where the bow thruster comes into its own. Sure, you can go into head gear and correct things, but it is always a bit of a pfaffle doing that, and then it's a while before you get the balance of forces set up again - the thruster is better as it avoids the problem. I've only ever had a hydraulic one, so I don't get this terrible noise that others seem to make. Tam Edited September 9, 2022 by Tam & Di 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Vagabond Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just as an aside, I was in conversation with the guy who owned and fitted my boat out from new today, and the subject of bowthrusters cropped up. One point he made was that my boat has a 10mm base plate and 6mm hull but when they install a bow thruster tubes they only tend to use 4mm steel so it seems it is almost deliberately introducing a weak point (given that it's not unheard of for BT tubes to be missed when blacking). Is that the norm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 9, 2022 Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said: Just as an aside, I was in conversation with the guy who owned and fitted my boat out from new today, and the subject of bowthrusters cropped up. One point he made was that my boat has a 10mm base plate and 6mm hull but when they install a bow thruster tubes they only tend to use 4mm steel so it seems it is almost deliberately introducing a weak point (given that it's not unheard of for BT tubes to be missed when blacking). Is that the norm? I reckon a Seagull outboard could be rigged up as a bow thruster for reversing. Gets around all the problems you mention! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gatekrash Posted September 9, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said: Just as an aside, I was in conversation with the guy who owned and fitted my boat out from new today, and the subject of bowthrusters cropped up. One point he made was that my boat has a 10mm base plate and 6mm hull but when they install a bow thruster tubes they only tend to use 4mm steel so it seems it is almost deliberately introducing a weak point (given that it's not unheard of for BT tubes to be missed when blacking). Is that the norm? Ours was 6mm, we know that cos that's what it was replaced with when it rotted out a couple of years ago! We don't use our thruster from one month to the next, we usually forget it's there, but very occasionally it comes in handy, for example when turning the boat 180 degrees and then backing into the pontoon on the marina when there's a strong crosswind blowing and we need to keep the bow pushed up into the wind. The alternative of course would be to just go into our berth forwards on those days. We generally treat ours as a 'get out of jail' card in case something's gone wrong and we've cocked up. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 10 hours ago, MtB said: I reckon a Seagull outboard could be rigged up as a bow thruster for reversing. Gets around all the problems you mention! I prefer a drogue it's quieter 🤭 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said: Just as an aside, I was in conversation with the guy who owned and fitted my boat out from new today, and the subject of bowthrusters cropped up. One point he made was that my boat has a 10mm base plate and 6mm hull but when they install a bow thruster tubes they only tend to use 4mm steel so it seems it is almost deliberately introducing a weak point (given that it's not unheard of for BT tubes to be missed when blacking). Is that the norm? 6mm on mine IIRC. Don't know if that's usual, or because it's a bigger diameter tube (185mm not 150mm?), or because that's what Tim Tyler always uses. And it's blacked with two-pack, along with the baseplate... Edited September 10, 2022 by IanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 18 hours ago, MtB said: I often do too, but I also acknowledge there are occasions when a BT would be useful. Just not many, and even then I'd be inclined not to use it if I had one, as the honking screaming noise they make would draw immediate attention to its use! I'm reasonably sure the main use I'd have for one would be when reversing, when I think one would be dead handy. I agree. For 40 years I only steered boats without bow thrusters, so know how to handle a boat. Then 9 years ago I bought a boat that happened to have one fitted. I mainly use it for reversing but occasionally use it to help turn the boat around if it is tight or windy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 The first time I ever steered a boat with a bow thruster was on the GU/ South Oxford and I went to turn up to Calcutt, left it a little late on the turn so put my thumb on the bowthruster, lots of noise but as I was still traveling forward the effect of steering was zilch. Hard astern and the boat stopped before hitting the bridge and the thruster pushed it round. I fitted one to my boat but I don't try to steer round bends with it, going a mile backwards down the Wissey and it was very handy. The bit passed the end of navigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris John Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 (edited) Bow thruster snobbery is a thing in 2022. Who’d have thought 🤦🏻♂️ Edited September 10, 2022 by Chris John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, Chris John said: Bow thruster snobbery is a thing in 2022. Who’d have thought 🤦🏻♂️ Makes a change from composting toilets. They were SO 2021. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Chris John said: Bow thruster snobbery is a thing in 2022. Who’d have thought 🤦🏻♂️ If you have nothing constructive to say, how about just saying nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris John Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, MtB said: If you have nothing constructive to say, how about just saying nothing? Like wise. Or do you enjoy playing moderator ? Edited September 10, 2022 by Chris John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blackrose Posted September 11, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 11, 2022 On 09/09/2022 at 13:23, Tam & Di said: Done judiciously there is no need of a spring. Bow thruster? Who needs one of those? Tam We all know that there is no "need" for a bow thruster, but then there is no need for lots of things on boats or even in many cases for the boat itself. It's not really the point. People should have whatever equipment they want to have on their own boats without others judging them. On 09/09/2022 at 14:15, IanD said: There's a terrible snobbishness about bow thrusters by certain people who insist that they're useless and anyway they never need one because they're so skilled at steering and the ODGs managed fine without them -- as if they never get into a situation where one would actually be useful, because they can't admit that. Using them to steer instead of the rudder is indeed laughable, but sometimes they are genuinely useful -- and if you don't want one, nobody's forcing you to have (or use) one... Well said. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thames Bhaji Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 16 hours ago, blackrose said: but then there is no need for lots of things on boats or even in many cases for the boat itself. I like this… if the criticism of bow thrusters is that they are expensive, need maintaining, go wrong and you can do without them, that nicely sums up a boat 😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony1 Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thames Bhaji said: I like this… if the criticism of bow thrusters is that they are expensive, need maintaining, go wrong and you can do without them, that nicely sums up a boat 😊 Although I agree with you to a large extent, just as a sort of devil's advocate thing I will say that there have probably been examples of new gadgets that were intrinsically flawed and unreliable to a degree that made them not worth spending money on. But on the other side of the coin, there will always be people resistant to new technologies and change in general- and especially when the new thing results in there being much less need for skill and experience on any given task. I can imagine when the first caveman started making fire, there would have been a few old greybeards grumbling at the back of the cave that they didnt need any fancy fires, and what was wrong with just putting on another bearskin like when I was a lad? The first coracle maker probably got a lot of abuse as well. 'The youngsters wont learn to swim if we all paddle about in these fancy new coracles,' they probably said. 'Lets put a Lister SR2 in there instead. Like the good old days.' ETA- I'm not claiming here that the fossil record shows evidence of Lister engines existing before coracles. It's just a theory at the moment. Edited September 12, 2022 by Tony1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudds Lad Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Tony1 said: Although I agree with you to a large extent, just as a sort of devil's advocate thing I will say that there have probably been examples of new gadgets that were intrinsically flawed and unreliable to a degree that made them not worth spending money on. But on the other side of the coin, there will always be people resistant to new technologies and change in general- and especially when the new thing results in there being much less need for skill and experience on any given task. I can imagine when the first caveman started making fire, there would have been a few old greybeards grumbling at the back of the cave that they didnt need any fancy fires, and what was wrong with just putting on another bearskin like when I was a lad? The first coracle maker probably got a lot of abuse as well. 'The youngsters wont learn to swim if we all paddle about in these fancy new coracles,' they probably said. 'Lets put a Lister SR2 in there instead. Like the good old days.' ETA- I'm not claiming here that the fossil record shows evidence of Lister engines existing before coracles. It's just a theory at the moment. Ned Ludd approves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thames Bhaji Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Tony1 said: there have probably been examples of new gadgets that were intrinsically flawed and unreliable to a degree that made them not worth spending money on. But on the other side of the coin, there will always be people resistant to new technologies and change in general- and especially when the new thing results in there being much less need for skill and experience on any given task. Indeed, I was mainly being flippant. It depends what you enjoy most. I’m someone with a design engineering background who doesn’t work in design engineering anymore, and aside from the joy of boating itself, my boat is an outlet for my penchant for trying new things / re-engineering stuff / modifying things to see if I can make them better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Thames Bhaji said: Indeed, I was mainly being flippant. It depends what you enjoy most. I’m someone with a design engineering background who doesn’t work in design engineering anymore, and aside from the joy of boating itself, my boat is an outlet for my penchant for trying new things / re-engineering stuff / modifying things to see if I can make them better. Me too, and it don't half lead to a lot of incoming flak from the "that's not how the ODGs did it" brigade... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam & Di Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) Boating encompasses a whole range of interests, which is probably why it is so popular. Mine is to learn the skills necessary to boat smoothly and safely, working in conjunction with the elements - to feel the personal satisfaction of a job well done. If others wish to be able to sit in a deckchair on their automated craft and be swished from one pub to another with no effort, then good on them 😁 Tam A quick p.s. - we've never had a bow thruster on any of the canal craft we've owned in the UK, but did fit a hydraulic one on the 24m barge we took to the continent. Edited September 12, 2022 by Tam & Di 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tam & Di said: Boating encompasses a whole range of interests, which is probably why it is so popular. Mine is to learn the skills necessary to boat smoothly and safely, working in conjunction with the elements - to feel the personal satisfaction of a job well done. If others wish to be able to sit in a deckchair on their automated craft and be swished from one pub to another with no effort, then good on them 😁 Tam A quick p.s. - we've never had a bow thruster on any of the canal craft we've owned in the UK, but did fit a hydraulic one on the 24m barge we took to the continent. My personal satisfaction is also to handle the boat smoothly and properly and slide into locks without touching the sides -- but nevertheless there have been times when a BT would have been useful, usually involving crosswinds. I would certainly hate being driven around by an automated boat, for the same reason I don't use lane following on my car... 😉 (but then I do find the radar cruise control useful especially on long motorway journeys or where there are speed cameras, because it means you can spend more time watching the road and the other idiots on it and less time looking at the speedo -- especially in long boring 50mph stretches like on the M1, or the permanent 40mph stretches on the A40...) Also the only boat I've been on which had a BT was the hired wideboat on the L&L a couple of years back, which I hated because it was slow to respond (wheel steering, uurgh...) and swam like a brick -- but manoeuvring it would have been even worse without the BT... 😞 Edited September 12, 2022 by IanD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted September 12, 2022 Report Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Tam & Di said: Tam A quick p.s. - we've never had a bow thruster on any of the canal craft we've owned in the UK, but did fit a hydraulic one on the 24m barge we took to the continent. Was it a JCB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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