Is it just us that complains about volunteer lock keepers

[nicknorman]

So, another minor run in with volockies today. It seems to happen to us quite often that there is some sort of annoyance or interference created by volunteers. We have decided on a “zero tolerance” policy of reporting every annoyance. Does anyone else report such stuff, or is it just us? Or do people find volockies annoying but just tolerate it? Or do people never find volockies annoying and it’s just us? If we are the only ones, CRT are just going to dismiss us as serial complainers.

 

To be fair, the previous volockies we encountered at Hillmorton were fine, so it is by no means all of them. This is my latest complaint to Christine Mellor. Who is head of volunteering:

 

Dear Christine

As I understand it, you are in charge of volunteering on CRT waters including the volunteer lock keepers?

Whilst I understand that volunteers are a vital part of CRT’s strategy, unfortunately an element of volunteers who are lock keepers, are spoiling our enjoyment of the canals by their interference with our boating. We have had several run-ins with volunteers bossing us, trying to take control and giving us unwanted “advice” on how to operate our boat. It really is getting us down.

We are out on a trip and 4 days in, our first encounter with volunteers at Claydon locks on the S Oxford has turned sour. 

Having happily come down a couple of locks behind another boat, boats coming the other way, everyone happy and having a good time, at lock 19 we waited on the lock landing whilst the boat ahead locked down. I didn’t go up to the lock because there was a boat coming up. However whilst I wasn’t looking, the volunteer decided to close the bottom gates and start to fill the lock for us. I was puzzled because the elderly lady from the boat waiting to come up was at the lock side. The boat waiting to come up was clearly visible below the lock and the volunteer had “turned the lock” in his face. It was embarrassing and we had to explain to both the lady and the elderly gentleman on the boat - who didn’t look best pleased - that it wasn’t us who had turned the lock in their faces. 
The volunteer said that when he turned the lock the boat was still in the previous lock, I don’t think that was true but even if it was, the boat ahead of us was waiting for the lock and there is no point in pushing more boats through into a short pound, it just causes boat congestion and doesn’t speed anyone on their way because we just had to wait in the next pound. 
At the next lock (20) after the boat ahead had gone through, and we were waiting on the lock landing, I could see that there was a boat about to come out of the lock below heading our way, and there were already 3 boats in the pound ahead. So absolutely no point in turning our lock on the boat coming the other way and indeed that is contrary to CRT’s boater handbook. Nevertheless the (different) volunteer started to close the gate. I said “we don’t want to turn the lock on that boat” but he argued, so I had to say “you are not in charge, don’t turn the lock”. He got irate and sulky and stormed off, refusing to give his name and he was not wearing a name badge. I went back to the hut and asked the two of them, (neither of whom were wearing name badges) if there was a supervisor on the flight. There wasn’t. I said they should be wearing name badges, they said they were in the hut. I said they should ask if boaters want help, not to presume to take charge, they said it wasn’t practical to ask. They of course also said “I’ve been doing it for 4 years” etc etc. They did give me the phone number of the volunteer supervisor Paddy, but when I phoned he didn’t take the call.

So once again a lovely cruise through a lovely flight of locks encountering lovely people, everything going smoothly, ruined by officious volunteers who seemingly like to hold power over boaters, don’t really know what they are doing, and cause congestion, irritation and resentment. This problem is manifest throughout the system - not all volunteers of course, but a significant proportion who think they “own” a flight of locks and want to rule it according to their whim.

As the person in charge of volunteers you are probably the only person who can sort out this problem by ensuring that volunteers stick to their training, because at the moment there is a huge gulf between CRT’s volunteer training material and what actually happens on the ground. Please try!

Kind Regards

Nick Norman
 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Some people are never happy, some achieve happiness by getting their own way.

[Rob-M]

I have resigned to Fradley being dominated by volunteers but I did report one recently as I was talking to the volunteer closing the top gate and without checking the volunteer at the other end whacked the paddle up.  He was supposed to be training the guy closing the gate so I made him put the paddle back down whilst I explained to him the procedure he should follow and if training someone else then it is important to use the correct process.

 

On other flights, Mrs-M will often go ahead and tell volunteers not to operate the lock I am in unless I ask them.  In the past I have had words with volunteers for raising paddles and then walking off to get a cup of tea leaving the lock unattended.

[robtheplod]

Do volunteer lockies have any 'power'?  I was under the impression the person in charge is the boat owner as they have responsibility and can choose to ignore or advise the volunteer their services are not needed?

[Jim Riley]

25 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Some people are never happy, some achieve happiness by getting their own way.

Exactly, the vollies are just there to help, not order us about. "To busy to ask if the boater wants help" says it all.

 

[nicknorman]

8 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Do volunteer lockies have any 'power'?  I was under the impression the person in charge is the boat owner as they have responsibility and can choose to ignore or advise the volunteer their services are not needed?

That is how it is supposed to be, but the reality is sometimes different, in their eyes at least.

[Jerra]

I haven't yet bothered to report any but have had innumerable problems with Volunteer lockies.  They seem unable to understand the simple fact they shouldn't "help" unless I want them to and I like to be in control of my own lock.

 

Perhaps I need to start reporting problems.

 

One at Fradley more or less admitted they didn't ask if people needed help as they wouldn't then get to operate the locks.

[LadyG]

Not had much experience with them, no bad experience.

Doing the Bingley they are led by a full time guy, I'm pretty sure, and they are very careful and polite.

[Midnight]

I've never complained to C&RT about volockies but have encountered a few of the officious type and a few who didn't know what they were doing. I usually deal with them there and then by politely telling them to go away and leave me to it. On one occasion after being tossed around in Hazelhurst Lock by a volockie who opened the wrong paddle I did mention to the next volockie at Gunthorpe (who worked the lock very well) that maybe he should mention to his colleague downstream that he would benefit from some better training.

 

I totally confused the lady volockie at Fradley last year when I reversed down through the lock from the junction to the sanitary station but she didn't argue once I explained what I was doing. The conversation went something like this. Lady vollie "What are do doing?" Me "I'm new to this boating lark isn't this the way to do it?" Lady vollie, "stunned silence. Me "I'm just going to the sanitary station - back shortly"

Edited July 6, 2022 by Midnight

[Chris John]

Nope never had a problem but as a single handed boater I’m just glad for the help tbh 

[Arthur Marshall]

I don't think I've ever had any trouble with vlockies (apart from a lecture years ago on how to work locks by an idle sod at Bosley , which I just ignored). Every one I've met this year, including Fradley, has asked if I wanted their help, checked for my signal before opening paddles half or full etc. I've met people who have had bad experiences, and heard some stories from the lockies about boaters that were quite scary, too. Maybe I've just been lucky.

[jonathanA]

They are a bit thin on the ground in the North.... our last encounter was at Stanley locks on the ribble link and you couldn't tell the difference between CRT staff and volockies. They seemed to work together and worked with the boat crews. 

 

I was happy with the way they worked the locks and happy for the help. Guess some might have not wanted their help, my sense is they'd have been happy either way. 

[mrsmelly]

We were always pleased to see them. Never had a problem countywide under CART or before. People who give freely of their time are to be applauded, not moaned about.

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Chris John said:

Nope never had a problem but as a single handed boater I’m just glad for the help tbh 

 

Why?

 

As single hander myself I find them a bloody nuisance, interfering with my enjoyment of operating the historic locks.

[Paul C]

I've learned to cope with pretty much all the combinations of what someone else might do at a lock, eg whacking paddles fully open going uphill in a deep lock, etc.

 

At the end of the day, there's a sequence of events which can only be done in a certain order: open gates, boat goes in, close gates, open paddles, open gates, boat leaves, (I don't care what happens after that). A few times there's been paddles left open behind, I've either got off and closed it myself or beeped the horn to stop anything else happen before that's sorted. I've not had a 'volunteer' or other 'helper' open a paddle with a gate wide open yet though.

[David Mack]

Single handing down Foxton a while back the vollies told me to stay on the boat and they would work me through. I had intended to step off and help, but once in the lock with my full length boat stopped, the gates behind me were already closed and the paddle at the bottom end was open and the level was dropping. And with the wing walls of the lock above alongside, you can't just step off from the stern anyway. So I stayed put. Halfway down the second flight my bows caught in the bottom gates, and the boat began to tilt down by the stern. The vollie meanwhile had disappeared from sight, and I couldn't easily get off the boat. At that point the bows fell from the gate, so I was no longer in danger of sinking, but the boat was moving backwards so a cilling was a possibility, but fortunately didn't happen.

If I had been operating the locks single handed I would have had a rope ashore, and would have been watching the boat throughout. The vollie felt no obligation to do the same!

Edited July 6, 2022 by David Mack

[nicknorman]

22 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

People who give freely of their time are to be applauded, not moaned about.

I hereby volunteer to give freely of my time to shag your wife, sell your house and keep the money,  and eat your dog. So I’m awaiting your applause…

 

Oh, do I hear moaning?

 

Well as you know, I’m gay, so the first one was just a joke. But the rest…? Still waiting for the applause…?

Edited July 6, 2022 by nicknorman

[haggis]

We must be lucky. Until this year I never needed the help of volockies but if they were there I was happy to accept their help and I can't remember ever having a bad experience with them. We have just been up to Standedge tunnel and back and I have nothing but praise for the volunteers. They helped work 5 boats up and two part of the way down and they were excellent. Two of them, Chris and Diana Kelly ( of Marsh Warbler which was mentioned here recently)  came out to help us and a single hander down Ashton and Rochdale 9 and boy did they work hard, especially when two very slow boats popped out in front of us on the flight. Diana helped both boats as well as our two . They joined us at 9 and didn't leave till we all had had a celebrity Pint aftet 6 ! 

My experience of volockies are a bit different from Nick's  😀

[Midnight]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I hereby volunteer to give freely of my time to shag your wife, sell your house and keep the money,  and eat your dog. So I’m awaiting your applause…

1 already dispensed with

2 I think he lives on a boat
3 you're rich so you don't need too

4 his dog Mr Smelly is in doggy heaven

👋👋 👋👋

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

I hereby volunteer to give freely of my time to shag your wife, sell your house and keep the money,  and eat your dog. So I’m awaiting your applause…

 

Oh, do I hear moaning?

 

Well as you know, I’m gay, so the first one was just a joke. But the rest…? Still waiting for the applause…?

You are typical of many whos moaning I dismiss. This past sunday gone, my wife was out as she does every month with a few locals street cleaning here. Its the same dozen or so each month. This week at 9 they were scraping weeds out of the path and sweeping outside a particular house down on our street and a local came out shouting his mouth off at my wife and a friends wife, about how he had a proper job and was having a lie in. I could hear him from inside my house through the double glazing. I went out and explained a few of lifes facts to him, part of it went like this " If you dont back off I will pull your head off and shit down your neck " this had the desired effect and bully backed off twenty years my junior. Vlockies I encountered oft, made a few mistakes but were always appreciated by us 

[MtB]

27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

People who give freely of their time are to be applauded, not moaned about.

 

 

What a load of bollux. They do it because they want to play at operating the locks - something I pay handsomely for to do myself but they compete with me for that pleasure, and they pay NOTHING and expect boaters to be grateful. 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, haggis said:

We must be lucky. Until this year I never needed the help of volockies but if they were there I was happy to accept their help and I can't remember ever having a bad experience with them. We have just been up to Standedge tunnel and back and I have nothing but praise for the volunteers. They helped work 5 boats up and two part of the way down and they were excellent. Two of them, Chris and Diana Kelly ( of Marsh Warbler which was mentioned here recently)  came out to help us and a single hander down Ashton and Rochdale 9 and boy did they work hard, especially when two very slow boats popped out in front of us on the flight. Diana helped both boats as well as our two . They joined us at 9 and didn't leave till we all had had a celebrity Pint aftet 6 ! 

My experience of volockies are a bit different from Nick's  😀

Chris Kelly is/was a forum member, although I can't remember his forum name.

[nicknorman]

Just now, haggis said:

We must be lucky. Until this year I never needed the help of volockies but if they were there I was happy to accept their help and I can't remember ever having a bad experience with them. We have just been up to Standedge tunnel and back and I have nothing but praise for the volunteers. They helped work 5 boats up and two part of the way down and they were excellent. Two of them, Chris and Diana Kelly ( of Marsh Warbler which was mentioned here recently)  came out to help us and a single hander down Ashton and Rochdale 9 and boy did they work hard, especially when two very slow boats popped out in front of us on the flight. Diana helped both boats as well as our two . They joined us at 9 and didn't leave till we all had had a celebrity Pint aftet 6 ! 

My experience of volockies are a bit different from Nick's  😀

What I don’t understand is why go boating on the canals if you don’t really like working locks?
But anyway, I am not against volockies per se, some people suffer from infirmities or are single handed and appreciate the help. That is absolutely fine by me. Help can be available to those who want it. But it should not be forced upon us when we don’t want it.
As a matter of interest Jeff researched the training material and one thing that came up was that volockies are only insured if they are acting with the agreement and permission of the boater. If they act against boaters’ wishes, they are not insured if anything bad happens.

[magnetman]

I do my boating on the Thames these days, fortunately manage to avoid most of these irritating idiots. 

 

However there was one a couple of years ago, on the Thames, who was discussing whether one could fit more than two narrow boats into a lock and he mentioned that narrow boats are "six feet wide" 

 

Given the dimensions of Thames locks this could end up being quite a dodgy situation ! 

 

I think on the River, unlike on the cut, they do have to have a real lock keeper present as well so they are "policed" to an extent which is a relief. 

 

The volunteer theme is a scam anyway. Better to pay someone to do the job who needs and wants a job than spend all that money on a bullshit publicity stunt. 

 

Wasn't it £30 per hour per volunteer or something ridiculous? If lock keepers are actually -needed- on canals (in the vast majority of places they are not) then find someone who wants to be a lock keeper and pay them rather than finding idiots who have enough money not to need to work and just want to mess around. 

 

Rant over ?

 

Not quite. Blah blah blah 

 

Idiots.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by magnetman

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I do my boating on the Thames these days, fortunately manage to avoid most of these irritating idiots. 

 

However there was one a couple of years ago, on the Thames, who was discussing whether one could fit more than two narrow boats into a lock and he mentioned that narrow boats are "six feet wide" 

 

Given the dimensions of Thames locks this could end up being quite a dodgy situation ! 

 

I think on the River, unlike on the cut, they do have to have a real lock keeper present as well so they are "policed" to an extent which is a relief. 

 

The volunteer theme is a scam anyway. Better to pay someone to do the job who needs and wants a job than spend all that money on a bullshit publicity stunt. 

 

Wasn't it £30 per hour per volunteer or something ridiculous? 

 

 

We are shortly heading onto the Thames,  not sure if they have real lock keepers or not these days? I don’t have a problem with the Thames locks, multiple boats fit into the locks and someone has to organise it. Although we haven’t been on the Thames for 5 years or so, I don’t recall any problems