Jump to content

Cheap Filters - Why not use them ?


Featured Posts

9 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

A friend of mine who blended oil additives for a living told me that the specification they meet when new is not necessarily the specification they are capable of meeting 100 hours later. 

It's not always wise to buy cheap.

Its hydraulic steering on my boat stressed it is not 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

A friend of mine who blended oil additives for a living told me that the specification they meet when new is not necessarily the specification they are capable of meeting 100 hours later. 

Perhaps  the same is true of all oils regardless of price ? The cheaper  oil I used at the the last oil change was approved bu the engine maker.

The oil was cheap due to market forces not due to compromised quality.

 

Edited by MartynG
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have cut open lots of filters over the years, some good, some very good, very few in any way "bad"

 

 

So I would suggest that if oil and filter changes take place at recommended intervals the make of filter is probably not an issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You can easily compare bypass pressure by pressing the filter element into the can from the fixing hole, its only a spring under the element.

By which time you've already bought the filter, even if the "poke with a finger" test was sufficiently accurate, although you may have something to measure the static spring pressure. Granted, buying a reputable brand (one that isn't just a reputable name bought by a dodgy Chinese factory) might well ensure decent build quality and material selection, but now introduce other parameters, such as the micron size, capture efficiency, dirt holding capacity, pressure flow profile, etc, and it starts to get a bit beyond DIY checks being enough. I'm not saying we shouldn't use "equivalent" filters, just that selection isn't as straightforward as it appears.

 

 

14 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sea Dog
Double post
Link to post
Share on other sites

As with most of us I presume I religously change my oil and filters in accordance with the engine manual, it's a Lister Petter LPWS3. My nearest source of filters in Stourport is a local garage ( owned by a very nice, helpful chap ) who is so used to boaters asking for filters he made up a list of compatible vehicle/marine filters. The ones I buy are FRAM and have had no problems in 8 years. I guess there are a few factors affecting the efficiency of any filter i.e the amount of hours you run for on a daily basis, so if you run for a few days giving the engine plenty of work then sit for a few days on a mooring running alongside just to charge the batteries, would this have an effect ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, colmac said:

As with most of us I presume I religously change my oil and filters in accordance with the engine manual, it's a Lister Petter LPWS3. 

 

 

I had an LPWS4 with a 100 hour requirement for oil/filter change (I pressume that the LPWS3 is the same).

I got the oil change down to about 10 minutes and could do it whilst SWMBO was making breakfast.

Run engine to warm up for 5 minutes whilst getting everything ready then pump-out oil, plastic bag around the filter, unscrew, replace, refill oil, tidy up, start engine, check for leaks, and head off.

 

As I was doing an oil change every 4 weeks, I'd buy filters and oil in 'bulk' at 5 or 6 'sets' at a time

Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a Beta 43. A while ago I bought a pattern oil filter from Inline, according to perceived wisdom on here it was the correct filter. But I noticed that on starting the engine from cold, the oil warning buzzer sounded for longer than it used to. When I eventually replaced it with a Beta branded filter, which was not much more expensive, the slightly prolonged beeping ceased. I therefore concluded that something was different about the pattern filter, presumably the anti-drain function. I’ve stuck to Beta filters since then.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

We have a Beta 43. A while ago I bought a pattern oil filter from Inline, according to perceived wisdom on here it was the correct filter. But I noticed that on starting the engine from cold, the oil warning buzzer sounded for longer than it used to. When I eventually replaced it with a Beta branded filter, which was not much more expensive, the slightly prolonged beeping ceased. I therefore concluded that something was different about the pattern filter, presumably the anti-drain function. I’ve stuck to Beta filters since then.

 

I have the exact opposite issue.

The filters specified by John Deere and Beta do not have an antidrain valve and it takes ages to get the oil pressure up, probably made worse because the engine is running slower than John Deere ever intended. I have found an after market equivalent filter which does have an ADBV and the oil pressure is now instant. Interesting that an after market company has chosen to deviate from the manufacturers specification.

 

.................Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I had an LPWS4 with a 100 hour requirement for oil/filter change (I pressume that the LPWS3 is the same).

I got the oil change down to about 10 minutes and could do it whilst SWMBO was making breakfast.

Run engine to warm up for 5 minutes whilst getting everything ready then pump-out oil, plastic bag around the filter, unscrew, replace, refill oil, tidy up, start engine, check for leaks, and head off.

 

As I was doing an oil change every 4 weeks, I'd buy filters and oil in 'bulk' at 5 or 6 'sets' at a time

During the summer we would clock up the 100 hours between changes roughly once per week, so under our deck was geared towards oil changes, oil containers on one swim ( new to the fore used to the aft), pela extraction pump on top of the weed hatch, funnel and used oil filters stored in a cut open gallon container.

purely due to the number of filters we were going through we always used compatible rather than lister branded (taking the time to find the registration No of a particular model of renault 5 that shared the same filter to ease ordering via motor factors)

  • Happy 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

By which time you've already bought the filter, even if the "poke with a finger" test was sufficiently accurate, although you may have something to measure the static spring pressure. Granted, buying a reputable brand (one that isn't just a reputable name bought by a dodgy Chinese factory) might well ensure decent build quality and material selection, but now introduce other parameters, such as the micron size, capture efficiency, dirt holding capacity, pressure flow profile, etc, and it starts to get a bit beyond DIY checks being enough. I'm not saying we shouldn't use "equivalent" filters, just that selection isn't as straightforward as it appears.

 

 

 

 

 

The trouble is Lister, Perkins, Isuzu, Beta and all the other names you can think of, non of them make filters, they buy in from someone else. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

We have a Beta 43. A while ago I bought a pattern oil filter from Inline, according to perceived wisdom on here it was the correct filter. But I noticed that on starting the engine from cold, the oil warning buzzer sounded for longer than it used to. When I eventually replaced it with a Beta branded filter, which was not much more expensive, the slightly prolonged beeping ceased. I therefore concluded that something was different about the pattern filter, presumably the anti-drain function. I’ve stuck to Beta filters since then.

My experience too. About 3 years ago bought a Baldwin filter from Midland Chandlers that they said was for Beta 43 and found oil pressure warning slow to extinguish. Genuine Beta filter and it was back to normal. Investigating the Baldwin filter it was listed as for hydraulic systems, not engines.

2 years ago, almost the same thing. Bought what the factors said was the Fleetline equivalent of the Kubota part number and again it was for hydraulic systems.

So have stuck to genuine filters since (and MC now stock genuine Beta)

For my Onan generator I buy in bulk from a Kubota dealer as they are almost half the price. Unfortunately the fuel filter is special to Onan so only the genuine ones available.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, pearley said:

My experience too. About 3 years ago bought a Baldwin filter from Midland Chandlers that they said was for Beta 43 and found oil pressure warning slow to extinguish. Genuine Beta filter and it was back to normal. Investigating the Baldwin filter it was listed as for hydraulic systems, not engines.

2 years ago, almost the same thing. Bought what the factors said was the Fleetline equivalent of the Kubota part number and again it was for hydraulic systems.

So have stuck to genuine filters since (and MC now stock genuine Beta)

For my Onan generator I buy in bulk from a Kubota dealer as they are almost half the price. Unfortunately the fuel filter is special to Onan so only the genuine ones available.

But you were sold the wrong ones, nothing to do with the manufactory or quality of the filters you bought

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But you were sold the wrong ones, nothing to do with the manufactory or quality of the filters you bought

Maybe the wrong one, but still perhaps an "equivalent".

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But you were sold the wrong ones, nothing to do with the manufactory or quality of the filters you bought

Yes, but when buying online you accept the equivalent offered. It's only when you receive it or fit it you know it's wrong.

 

And I was responding to Nicks post. He didn't imply they were cheap.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The trouble is Lister, Perkins, Isuzu, Beta and all the other names you can think of, non of them make filters, they buy in from someone else. 

Yes, that's true. But that OEM filter, made by whoever, is not necessarily exactly the same spec as the "equivalent" supplied by someone else. That's my point: it may be identical, it may be even better, but there's no easy way to tell when the specifications are all but impossible to find. I don't risk that to save a quid or two for my Beta 43, but that's not to say I've never used equivalents... or wouldn't if I had a Vetus engine!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/02/2021 at 18:59, peterboat said:

Its hydraulic steering on my boat stressed it is not 

 

I wasn't aiming my comment particularly at you Peter. The thread had moved on. 

 

It seemed worth putting it out there. 

  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

 

I wasn't aiming my comment particularly at you Peter. The thread had moved on. 

 

It seemed worth putting it out there. 

It's ok vetus hydraulic fluid was my left leg and right arm so decided that the stuff we use at work would work fine 

I have to say that I start my Rayburn Royal with used paper element oil filters work really well, I can put anthracite straight onto them perfik 

Edited by peterboat
Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything is made down to a price. 

The cheaper something is to buy the lower it costs to make.

It's not difficult to achieve a standard when something is new and fresh out of the box, what's important is how it holds up X-teen hours down the line.

 

Chap down the market in Ayr used to sell cheap engine consumables, the biggest known issue was his air filters were known to feed bits of perforated paper element into the inlet manifold.  So you knew when it needed changing as it was empty or your inlet valves were fouled and compression was down.

 

Listers taught me never to stint on spin on oil filters with a video showing an after market version made from gauge so thin that the dome started to flex in and out with the pulse from the oil pump.  Metal fatigue due to repetitive flexing will eventually cause a fracture.  The contents of your sump being forced out of a split oil filter will only make itself obvious to you when it's already too late.

Many erroneously believe the little orange light advises low oil or pressure and it's time to stare at the dip stick before pouring in some oil .... somewhere ..... p'raps.

Not true, the little orange light is there to confirm you've just ruined your motor long term.

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Everything is made down to a price. 

The cheaper something is to buy the lower it costs to make.

It's not difficult to achieve a standard when something is new and fresh out of the box, what's important is how it holds up X-teen hours down the line.

 

Chap down the market in Ayr used to sell cheap engine consumables, the biggest known issue was his air filters were known to feed bits of perforated paper element into the inlet manifold.  So you knew when it needed changing as it was empty or your inlet valves were fouled and compression was down.

 

Listers taught me never to stint on spin on oil filters with a video showing an after market version made from gauge so thin that the dome started to flex in and out with the pulse from the oil pump.  Metal fatigue due to repetitive flexing will eventually cause a fracture.  The contents of your sump being forced out of a split oil filter will only make itself obvious to you when it's already too late.

Many erroneously believe the little orange light advises low oil or pressure and it's time to stare at the dip stick before pouring in some oil .... somewhere ..... p'raps.

Not true, the little orange light is there to confirm you've just ruined your motor long term.

Yes everything is made down to a price. However there can be a lot of steps between manufacture, and sale to the customer. Each of those steps adds a cut. So items identically made in one factory can follow different paths, acquire different brands and end up costing the customer very different amounts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I buy Beta branded everything and religiously stick to service intervals. I feel like a sucker but it buys me the peace of mind that if something does go wrong, it wasn't because I wasn't following the instructions 😂

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the engines we use, e.g. Mitsubishi, have recommended service intervals of 250 hours.  So why do the likes of Beta and Vetus give a service interval of 100 hours?

 

A more cynical person than me might suggest it is to sell over-priced parts and provide work for their dealers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, dor said:

Most of the engines we use, e.g. Mitsubishi, have recommended service intervals of 250 hours.  So why do the likes of Beta and Vetus give a service interval of 100 hours?

 

A more cynical person than me might suggest it is to sell over-priced parts and provide work for their dealers.

 

Because most diesels have a very unhappy life in a narrowboat.

 

..............Dave

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, dor said:

Most of the engines we use, e.g. Mitsubishi, have recommended service intervals of 250 hours.  So why do the likes of Beta and Vetus give a service interval of 100 hours?

 

A more cynical person than me might suggest it is to sell over-priced parts and provide work for their dealers.

Beta service interval for their Kubota based engines is 250hrs, unless you have the shallow sump option. I’ve found genuine Beta spares to be reasonably priced, unlike Vetus stuff.

  • Greenie 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Beta service interval for their Kubota based engines is 250hrs, unless you have the shallow sump option. I’ve found genuine Beta spares to be reasonably priced, unlike Vetus stuff.

Even more reasonable if you can buy kubota filters I then got discount 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.