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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Yeah, but they never are.  It's the same as when you ride a bike, the wind is always against you.

See my post above ;)

The most annoying bit is passing a boat going the opposite way and he says they are all in your favour only to find that the locks have 6"-1' of water in them because he shut the gates and the bywash * has started to fill the lock.

 

* GU locks bywash empties into the lock.

Edited by Loddon
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6 hours ago, Goliath said:

The disadvantage of having to close gates when others have left them open is very minor compared to the big advantage to be gained if they’re left open in your favour. 
I bet no one complains then. 

Not minor on broad locks

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On buckby locks, napton locks and claydon some of the locks are so badly balanced the gates walk themselves open.

Really annoying when you carefully come out of one gate on buckby shut the gate, go up to the next lock only to see both gates open themselves, and no there is no point in going back down, coz they will do it again unless you let out water.

Ive hated buckby ever since I first used it in 1980, and its got worse.

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55 minutes ago, mark99 said:

It's not going to stop. People will keep leaving the gates open. So the only thing to stop is worrying about it?

 

Just a suggestion.

Over my working life I attended many 'training' courses, the one thing that has really stuck in my mind is :

 

"Don't worry about what you cannot change, concentrate on things that you can influence"

 

From Dale Carnegie's 'Golden Book'

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12 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Not minor on broad locks

Maybe not minor in today's terms, but the general point Goliath makes still holds good - what you lose by following someone going in the same direction you gain by meeting anyone coming the opposite way.

 

When we were commercial boating you only closed gates as you left the lock if those at the other end were leaking. It means you yourself were responsible for closing gates and making sure paddles are fully down when you locked through, and not relying on the person in front of you to have done that. This is obviously too complex for a lot of people - asking them to look at what is happening in the lock? - Look behind them? Good Lord, whatever next!

 

So as pleasure boating gained momentum BWB introduced the "close all gates" maxim to cope with what was becoming a problem, exaggerated by poor maintenance and more leaking gates. The old way is nevertheless still the most efficient way of going on, particularly on the Grand Union where many pounds are river fed.

 

Tam

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28 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Maybe not minor in today's terms, but the general point Goliath makes still holds good - what you lose by following someone going in the same direction you gain by meeting anyone coming the opposite way.

 

When we were commercial boating you only closed gates as you left the lock if those at the other end were leaking. It means you yourself were responsible for closing gates and making sure paddles are fully down when you locked through, and not relying on the person in front of you to have done that. This is obviously too complex for a lot of people - asking them to look at what is happening in the lock? - Look behind them? Good Lord, whatever next!

 

So as pleasure boating gained momentum BWB introduced the "close all gates" maxim to cope with what was becoming a problem, exaggerated by poor maintenance and more leaking gates. The old way is nevertheless still the most efficient way of going on, particularly on the Grand Union where many pounds are river fed.

 

Tam

But you really do lose out if you follow after someone who has left gates open where it really matters and you are faced with an empty, or seriously drained, pound. If have not happened to you then you have not travelled the system very far! Few boaters will know a particular lock well enough to know which ones are 'safe' to leave open and which need to be closed.

 

The best way to change errant behaviour is continuing gentle reminders - life the 2m if possible rule.

 

There is no right to leave gates open but CaRT is perfectly within its rights to expect boaters to conform to reasonable instructions, which CaRT have a duty to devise.

 

Also you say that in leaving gates open what you lose you gain - hence on what basis is it more efficient than closing gates? (Assuming you are referring to efficiency of system as a whole, across all users)

Edited by Mike Todd
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The one that really got my blood boiling was on the GU below cowroast there was a widebeam 4 up going down towards London. They would go into a lock close the top gates, open the bottom paddles and step onto the boat, eventually they pushed the lower gates open and sailed on their merry way. They got very abusive when I tried to explain normal practise. They were reported to CRT. But we had to follow through half a dozen locks, and yes you could hear the bow thruster frequently. 

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1 hour ago, Detling said:

The one that really got my blood boiling was on the GU below cowroast there was a widebeam 4 up going down towards London. They would go into a lock close the top gates, open the bottom paddles and step onto the boat, eventually they pushed the lower gates open and sailed on their merry way. They got very abusive when I tried to explain normal practise. They were reported to CRT. But we had to follow through half a dozen locks, and yes you could hear the bow thruster frequently. 

How do you push the lower gates open with the boat when going downhill?

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1 hour ago, Detling said:

The one that really got my blood boiling was on the GU below cowroast there was a widebeam 4 up going down towards London.

I'd hate to see your bodily reaction if something serious happened. 

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31 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

How do you push the lower gates open with the boat when going downhill?

You can certainly pull them open using a mast line or some similar line from the top of the superstructure.

 

Tam

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38 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

You can certainly pull them open using a mast line or some similar line from the top of the superstructure.

 

Tam

Surprisingly, I did know that! However Post #36 specifically says that they pushed the gates open with all the crew on board. NB push <> pull . . . (as in 'push-me-pull-me')

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I’ll be so glad to go boating in a few weeks time that I really hope if I encounter such inconveniences I’ll be able to put it into perspective. I’m not claiming any moral high ground, I do get annoyed by such things in the moment, but once you let that moment pass and put it into perspective it’s a joy to be able to work a lock no matter what state you find it. I’ve no big flights on my trip either, although I will be heading through Penkridge.
 

Anyway I’ve been drawn into the ‘pub’ against my better judgment and I’m in need of some more of Peter Scott’s memories as an antidote to all this stuff. Off I go.

 

JP

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40 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I’ll be so glad to go boating in a few weeks time that I really hope if I encounter such inconveniences I’ll be able to put it into perspective. I’m not claiming any moral high ground, I do get annoyed by such things in the moment, but once you let that moment pass and put it into perspective it’s a joy to be able to work a lock no matter what state you find it. I’ve no big flights on my trip either, although I will be heading through Penkridge.
 

Anyway I’ve been drawn into the ‘pub’ against my better judgment and I’m in need of some more of Peter Scott’s memories as an antidote to all this stuff. Off I go.

 

JP

Agreed. These are inconveniences that are over quickly, at most after a day.  It's the self-righteous tone of those who find reasons for not following recommended practice that irritates. Luckily, in real life one meets very few of them, and the deliberately obtuse ones are hugely outweighed by the rest. And, of course, if you mutter "the gates probably swung open on their own" to yourself, you are just being persecuted by the innate cussedness of things, which is somebody's law, rather than by people, so that's alright.

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39 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Agreed. These are inconveniences that are over quickly, at most after a day.  It's the self-righteous tone of those who find reasons for not following recommended practice that irritates. Luckily, in real life one meets very few of them, and the deliberately obtuse ones are hugely outweighed by the rest. And, of course, if you mutter "the gates probably swung open on their own" to yourself, you are just being persecuted by the innate cussedness of things, which is somebody's law, rather than by people, so that's alright.

I do think the situation whereby the gate has naturally swung open but a non-existent errant boater gets the blame by the crew of the boat that encounters it is not uncommon. It can also be the consequence of closing a gate but forgetting to drop a paddle.
 

I’m sure we’ve all made the odd mistake or even been caught out by an unanticipated boat when taking a liberty such as “I’ll moor up first and then drop back to close the gate”. As you say if it’s a one off you take the rap and don’t try and defend the indefensible. If anyone gets too hot under the collar about that it’s their problem.

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

Surprisingly, I did know that! However Post #36 specifically says that they pushed the gates open with all the crew on board. NB push <> pull . . . (as in 'push-me-pull-me')

I don't know why that should be surprising. I didn't think of it in those terms; I just used your post to comment - perhaps I should have quoted Detling himself. I can't trace any post by Pluto about the Wigan locks so still can't make sense of the idea of pushing Grand Union bottom gates open using the boat

 

Tam

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I think the stronger argument for closing gates (as opppsed to the extra effort for a following boat) is that it can drain the pound if the single set of gates holding the water back isn't water tight.

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On 24/06/2020 at 09:06, Naughty Cal said:

Not sure it is really worth getting wound up about having to shut a lock gate!

 

First world problems init.

8 hours ago, mark99 said:

It's not going to stop. People will keep leaving the gates open. So the only thing to stop is worrying about it?

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Yes, there are much worse things going on in the world to get worked up about.

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8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

First world problems init.

 

Yes, there are much worse things going on in the world to get worked up about.

Social distancing for example 

 

You just want to go to the shop, do the shopping and get on with it but required to view all other people as a biohazard. 

 

Bad news. Definitely a lot worse than lock gate news. 

 

 

 

Edited by magnetman
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14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Over my working life I attended many 'training' courses, the one thing that has really stuck in my mind is :

 

"Don't worry about what you cannot change, concentrate on things that you can influence"

 

From Dale Carnegie's 'Golden Book'

Another is:

 

"You may not be able to change other peoples behaviour, but you can change the way you react to it"

 

I dont know who to credit it to.

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On 23/06/2020 at 22:23, dmr said:

We went from Todmorden to Summit (Rochdale Canal) a couple of days ago. I suspect we were the first two boats to do this section for some time. Almost all the locks were empty with a bottom paddle raised when we got to them.  A lot of walkers and cyclists had gone past and I can only conclude that one of them had a windlass (or adjustable spanner) with them and decided to set the locks for us.

 

..............Dave

Love it when that happens. And try to do it myself if being closely followed and nothing coming the other way. 

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