Over 70s isolation

[Steilsteven]

On 17/03/2020 at 11:14, David Schweizer said:

With the current debate suggesting  that people over 70 are "elderly" and should not be venturing out and mixing with other people, how does that match up with  the Tory Think Tank, "The Centre for Social Justice" recommendations that the State Retirement Age be increased to 70 by 2028 and 75 by 2035? More lack of joined up thinking?

 

Yes I know this should be in Political and Current Affairs, but it seemed more relevant to this thread.

 

 

65 years

 

Most developed world countries have accepted the chronological age of 65 years as a definition of 'elderly' or older person, but like many westernized concepts, this does not adapt well to the situation in Africa. 

World Health Organisation

 

 

Keith

[Murflynn]

23 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

So despite the medical evidence that people over 70 are more challenged by infection and mortality the "The Centre for Social Justice" still seems to suggest that people should (not could) work until they are 75. A comparative analysis would draw attention to the incompatability of the two differing views.

 

 

do you think that a man from the ministry visits you on your 70th birthday and switches a Deterioration Button on?

 

as others have said, deterioration is gradual.    folk over 80 tend to be less immune than those over 70 who are in turn less immune than those over 60, ad infinitum - well probably as far as 30 anyway.

[Athy]

27 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

 

  folk over 80 tend to be less immune than those over 70 

More mune, perhaps?

[David Schweizer]

39 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

do you think that a man from the ministry visits you on your 70th birthday and switches a Deterioration Button on?

 

as others have said, deterioration is gradual.    folk over 80 tend to be less immune than those over 70 who are in turn less immune than those over 60, ad infinitum - well probably as far as 30 anyway.

Did you read my post? I was not disputing the gradual reductionof immunity, which I accept does happen. My post was intended to highlight the incompatability of Government policy and thinking.  ie. You may be old and far more vulnerable to contractiong illnes through close contact with other people, but we are still going to force you to go to work untill you are almost too ill to work, then you will die and we won't have to pay you any pension.

[David Mack]

13 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

You may be old and far more vulnerable to contractiong illnes through close contact with other people, but we are still going to force you to go to work untill you are almost too ill to work, then you will die and we won't have to pay you any pension.

Which, as Chewbacka pointed out earlier in the thread, is more or less the position that existed when the state pension was first brought in.

[David Schweizer]

18 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Which, as Chewbacka pointed out earlier in the thread, is more or less the position that existed when the state pension was first brought in.

Yes I am well aware of that, and the fact that many over 70's working class people died whilst still working, was one of the reasons why State Pension and Pensionable Age was introduced. It was then possible for older people to choose whether they retired or continued to work. The latest Government Think Tank proposals would remove that element of choice.

 

One of my interests is the study of Agricultural, Industrial, and Social History. My researches suggest that those with a more affluent and less physically demanding background survived far longer than those who were poorly paid and had to endure harder physical occupations, which is fairly logical, but something which popular myth seems to largely ignore. Some catagories of people, particularly those who followed a religious doctrine and lifestyle, such as Quakers, also seemed to survive well into their 80's or 90's, often continuing to work, albeit at a reduced level.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by David Schweizer

[Machpoint005]

On 17/03/2020 at 11:14, David Schweizer said:

the Tory Think Tank, "The Centre for Social Justice" ... More lack of joined up thinking?

Is anyone honestly surprised by that?

[Chewbacka]

31 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Did you read my post? I was not disputing the gradual reductionof immunity, which I accept does happen. My post was intended to highlight the incompatability of Government policy and thinking.  ie. You may be old and far more vulnerable to contractiong illnes through close contact with other people, but we are still going to force you to go to work untill you are almost too ill to work, then you will die and we won't have to pay you any pension.

Too make the pension affordable it was originally only given to the half that were still alive at pension age.  Pension age has not kept up with life expectancy, hence the desire to move it up.  

If you wish to retire earlier than that, then rather than expecting all the younger people currently working to pay even more tax to fund your early retirement, I am afraid you will have to pay for it yourself.

Whilst this may seem harsh, most younger people can no longer afford to buy a house, and now pay a lot in rent etc, so asking them to pay even more tax does not sound fair to me.

[Higgs]

On 17/03/2020 at 14:07, David Schweizer said:

So despite the medical evidence that people over 70 are more challenged by infection and mortality the "The Centre for Social Justice" still seems to suggest that people should (not could) work until they are 75. A comparative analysis would draw attention to the incompatibility of the two differing views.

 

 

 

I should think it would be ok, if there was a shortage of armchair and slipper test pilots. But hopefully, it will never become policy to ask people of such vintage to carry on working. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Higgs

[Athy]

48 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

To make the pension affordable it was originally only given to the half that were still alive at pension age.  

It would have been odd to have given it to those who were dead.

[Arthur Marshall]

34 minutes ago, Athy said:

It would have been odd to have given it to those who were dead.

Cheaper, though, if they had to claim in person.

[roland elsdon]

The reason people in my ex profession were given a ‘generous’ nhs pension and doubling up at 55 to 60 , was because we were expected to die before hitting state pension.

I dont know many of my ex colleagues but suspect most are disabled alcoholic or dead.
 I do not expect to get to my state pension age of 66.

[David Schweizer]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

The reason people in my ex profession were given a ‘generous’ nhs pension and doubling up at 55 to 60 , was because we were expected to die before hitting state pension.

I dont know many of my ex colleagues but suspect most are disabled alcoholic or dead.
 I do not expect to get to my state pension age of 66.

Are you saying that you are not yet 66 and expect to die before you reach that age, or have I misread your post? If you are not yet 66, that is a very pessimitic outlook, I am currently 73 and given that my father died when he was 95 and my mother was 98 when she passed on, I am anticipating at least another 20 years.

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by David Schweizer

[WotEver]

5 hours ago, Athy said:

More mune, perhaps?

Definitely an improvement on the double negative

[Murflynn]

6 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Did you read my post? I was not disputing the gradual reductionof immunity, which I accept does happen. My post was intended to highlight the incompatability of Government policy and thinking.  ie. You may be old and far more vulnerable to contractiong illnes through close contact with other people, but we are still going to force you to go to work untill you are almost too ill to work, then you will die and we won't have to pay you any pension.

and at what age do you consider the average fit and healthy bloke is 'almost too ill to work' ?    .....................   no you can't

 

 if people get ill they will not be employable.

if people are healthy they can go on until they are - 75, 80, 85. whatever.

[Jennifer McM]

Oh dear - a lot can happen in 9 weeks ?

 

 

 

[Dr Bob]

Just been looking over Mrs Bobs shoulder to see what she is reading on Facebook and instacrap. Hundreds of posts on how do I cook pasta or what can I do with pasta? So all of these plonkers have emptied the shelves of pasta with not a clue what it is for or how to cook it.....leaving the good guys (i.e. us) with none at all. Great public spirit!

[roland elsdon]

4 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

Are you saying that you are not yet 66 and expect to die before you reach that age, or have I misread your post? If you are not yet 66, that is a very pessimitic outlook, I am currently 73 and given that my father died when he was 95 and my mother was 98 when she passed on, I am anticipating at least another 20 years.

 

 

 

Thats the luck of genetics.

 

[Slim]

On 16/03/2020 at 12:19, Slim said:

In which case you are wrong. Pure and simple! 

I have NOT phoned my GP for any reason in the last few weeks thus my experiences have not been coloured by the present crisis. Whenever I phone my GP for an appointment it's a lottery as to whether the call is answered. When it is as like as not I'm told to phone the following day at 8am. When I do either it rings and rings or goes to the " you are in a queue" message where I may remain for anything up to an hour. When I do get an answer  the appointment is can be weeks ahead. On occasion I have been told that none were available so phone the following day. I should add that my GP(s) and their staff are excellent. 

 

Further to the above I've just received a text from my GP surgery telling me that with immediate effect they will not be seeing any patients and that the surgery doors will be locked. They are offering 'telephone consultations' that will need to be pre-booked. Imagine what that will to to phone answering times. The practice has about 10 doctors but I think a couple of them work p/t. Imagine the impact on the local A & E. Not a good time to become ill. 

Before anyone attacks me I understand fully the doctors concerns around their well being and that of their staff and families. I worked in a public facing environment  for 42 years so have some understanding.

[Ianws]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

Just been looking over Mrs Bobs shoulder to see what she is reading on Facebook and instacrap. Hundreds of posts on how do I cook pasta or what can I do with pasta? So all of these plonkers have emptied the shelves of pasta with not a clue what it is for or how to cook it.....leaving the good guys (i.e. us) with none at all. Great public spirit!

The first pasta I encountered as a school kid in the seventies was school dinners with starchy over cooked pasta and a mince onion and gravy sauce, nothing else, it was horrible. My mum’s first attempt was no better, until she found a packet bolognese herb mix, which was heaven in comparison. After that we learnt ways of cooking with pasta. A lot of people now have got used  to cooking in different styles but lots of people have no idea of any of the basics. It’s not just about money, a quick and nutritious pasta  meal can be cooked with simple ingredients. I know people like meat but I bet you can still get hold of green lentils and mushrooms which make great bolognese if you can’t get meat. And the lentils last forever in your cupboard.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, Ianws said:

 And the lentils last forever in your cupboard.

They would in our cupboard, I hate them with a vengeance.

 

The pension was first introduced for the lucky[?] few who reached 80. It was 5 Shillings a week. Which is why when you reach 80 these days {fortunate many} you get a 25p rise!

 

Please let me get back to sleep, there is a bitch on heat somewhere and the local hounds are howling again. Why can't they keep the bitch inside?

 

TD'

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Tracy D'arth
added more text

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Just been looking over Mrs Bobs shoulder to see what she is reading on Facebook and instacrap. Hundreds of posts on how do I cook pasta or what can I do with pasta? So all of these plonkers have emptied the shelves of pasta with not a clue what it is for or how to cook it.....leaving the good guys (i.e. us) with none at all. Great public spirit!

And what are they doing with FLOUR, is it folks who have those bread making gadgets?

PS flour has a sell by date, something to do wth weevils!

I am not that keen on pasta, but I will get a wedge of that special parmeggio cheese anyways.

I have 20Kg of unwashed spuds in a paper sack.

Neighbour has hundreds of bog rolls [long term prepper], and a respirator thingy!

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by LadyG