Modern Oils

[Andy_B]

This could be a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing, but wouldn't it be a perfectly sensible thing to do to use a modern multigrade oil in a vintage engine?  Say a 5W30 instead of a "classic" SAE30?

 

As I understand, it'll still be as viscous as a hot SAE30 when it's hot, and no less viscous than a hot SAE30 when cold.  

 

Don't the advantages of multigrade apply perfectly well to a vintage engine?

 

Thinking of using 5W30 or perhaps just 20W50 in my JP2.

 

Am I a dangerous loon (please those that know me judge this purely on the oil idea)?

Edited March 1, 2020 by Andy_B
Update

[BWM]

As a Jp only has rudimentary screen type filters it would not be wise to use anything other than a mineral type oil, they deposit the solids rather than carrying them until they are filtered out. 

There is more to it than this but i was warned against using modern oils by people i trust as authorities on these engines. 

[GUMPY]

Don't use modern synthetic oils in a JP unless you want to have to pay for a rebuild.

Why would you anyway the older oils are half the price of the modern synthetic my car uses.

 

[frangar]

Morris make “Golden Film” for a reason....as others have said modern oils in a JP is going to end in tears!  The engine simply isn’t made to the right tolerances...or filtration

[OptedOut]

Modern oils with friction modifiers are no good for wet clutches in some types of gearbox.

Edited March 1, 2020 by OptedOut
Added info

[OldGoat]

One point to bear in mind - as well as the  discussions above - is that a multigrade oil (typically) has a base oil (the lower figure in the specification) of xx with chemical improvers that make the oil appear to be as thick as whatever the mono oil would have bee at the higher temperature end.

I found this out when I put 20/50 in a motor bike engine where the specification was a straight 50. It siezed after 45 miles...

 

It's a lot more complicated than it seems.

 

I asked Beta if I could put 10/40 (which is a semi synthetic) oil in my B50 - the answer was 'NO' and that's a modern engine.

I have a load of 10/40 here...

[OptedOut]

I used 'modern car oil' in my 40 year old Suzuki, almost wrecked the clutch. IIRC old engines require the old spec of API-CC?

[Andy_B]

That's me told!  Any favourite sources for 20-25 l of SAE30?

[mark99]

Try ebay. Also "farm" suppliers via google who do bulk for tractors etc. It's not hard to source.

 

Morris Golden Film is what we use.

Edited March 1, 2020 by mark99

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Andy_B said:

That's me told!  Any favourite sources for 20-25 l of SAE30?

Morris Oils.

 

https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/products/classsteam/classic-engine-oils/golden-film-sae-30-classic-motor-oil.html

 

Either online, or find a local dealer - my local tractor parts place stock a full range of Morris Oils, but not the Golden Film.  They don't mind adding a drum to their next order though, as Morris will be sending a truck up to them twice a month.

[OptedOut]

Our local motor factors sell API CC in multigrades, seems OK so far in our Lister HA2

[David Mack]

When I last looked a couple of websites catering for air cooled VW campervans were the cheapest online source of Morris Classic SAE30 oil.

[matty40s]

You dont say where you are Andy? Plenty of Morris Goldenfilm 30 out there.

I wouldn't stick anything else in my engine.

 

 

[frangar]

Strictly speaking for a temperate UK climate a JP should have SAE20 but given our hotter summers and ease of availability then SAE30 is a good second choice. 
 

I’ve always used 20 but due to hotter summers I’m thinking of swapping to 30 this year....still pondering!  

[BWM]

11 hours ago, Andy_B said:

That's me told!  Any favourite sources for 20-25 l of SAE30?

Last batch i bought was from marine engine services, reasonable price and they ran it out to me (at Lapworth). They supply Rockoil, as did Peter Thompson before he sold the business. If you have a dry sump set up it will need 30 - 35 litres to fill, i normally buy two and the balance goes towards the next change and leaves a bit spare for topping up the cylinder head reserves. 

  

10 hours ago, frangar said:

Strictly speaking for a temperate UK climate a JP should have SAE20 but given our hotter summers and ease of availability then SAE30 is a good second choice. 
 

I’ve always used 20 but due to hotter summers I’m thinking of swapping to 30 this year....still pondering!  

I've been toying with the idea of using sae 20 as hand starting is difficult to say the least in winter, do you get much of a drop in pressure in hot spells with 20?

[frangar]

20 minutes ago, BWM said:

I've been toying with the idea of using sae 20 as hand starting is difficult to say the least in winter, do you get much of a drop in pressure in hot spells with 20?

I’ve always run on SAE20....from cold I get 20-22psi at tickover....after a days running  it’s at about 17-18psi at tickover....rising to 20psi when running at normal canal speed. So if the gauge is accurate then it’s not bad..it’s certainly possible to hand start in winter...usually on the first go. 
 

My only real reason for changing is going off the temperature specs in the manual! 

[gbclive]

I’ve just ordered a 25L can of Morris Classic Golden Film SAE 30 for £110.86 inc VAT and free delivery, direct from Morris Lubricants. (Their online quoted prices are without VAT).

For me it was the most convenient option.

[Jon57]

Just wondering if anyone as used this company for marine oil? https://www.aztecoils.co.uk/products-marine-marineoils.html

no connection. 

[Mike Tee]

prices on this site look good, and buy enough and get free delivery

 

https://www.classic-oils.net/Oils-by-Application-and-Type/Four-Stroke-Engine-Oils/SAE-30-Monogrades

[alan_fincher]

3 hours ago, gbclive said:

I’ve just ordered a 25L can of Morris Classic Golden Film SAE 30 for £110.86 inc VAT and free delivery, direct from Morris Lubricants. (Their online quoted prices are without VAT).

For me it was the most convenient option.

Seldom a good idea to buy direct from Morris.

 

Can usually be found cheaper elsewhere.

 

Without trying too hard, it is £95 from Classic Oils, with free delivery.

 

https://www.classic-oils.net/Morris-Golden-Film-SAE-30

[gbclive]

1 hour ago, Mike Tee said:

prices on this site look good, and buy enough and get free delivery

 

https://www.classic-oils.net/Oils-by-Application-and-Type/Four-Stroke-Engine-Oils/SAE-30-Monogrades

39 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Seldom a good idea to buy direct from Morris.

 

Can usually be found cheaper elsewhere.

 

Without trying too hard, it is £95 from Classic Oils, with free delivery.

 

https://www.classic-oils.net/Morris-Golden-Film-SAE-30

Thanks Mike and thanks Alan.

Classic Oils it is then?

[BWM]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Seldom a good idea to buy direct from Morris.

 

Can usually be found cheaper elsewhere.

 

Without trying too hard, it is £95 from Classic Oils, with free delivery.

 

https://www.classic-oils.net/Morris-Golden-Film-SAE-30

You could almost think that Morris have included the price of delivery in their 'with free delivery'!

[Andy_B]

VW specialists was a good call - cheaper than Morris direct and free devilry :-) Thanks all for help and advice.  

[Split Pin]

6 hours ago, Jon57 said:

Just wondering if anyone as used this company for marine oil? https://www.aztecoils.co.uk/products-marine-marineoils.html

no connection. 

Have been using this one from them for over 30 years in my Gardner https://www.aztecoils.co.uk/Topics/commercial_-_monogrades/hdx_30_api_secc_mon007.htm

They used to have an agent in West Bromwich which is nearer to me, so able to collect it, about £45.00 for 20lts the last time I brought some, usually around 50% of Morris's for the same spec oil

Can still get it through the new owners who also do other manufaturers.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Split Pin
reword

[dmr]

4 hours ago, BWM said:

You could almost think that Morris have included the price of delivery in their 'with free delivery'!

Well of course they do. "There is no such thing as a free lunch" just creative ways of paying for it. eBay and Amazon are good examples, the free postage stuff is always about £1.50 more expensive.

 

I buy from Morris on-line 25 litres at a time. Once you are on the mailing list you get 10% discount offers two or three times each year, so I try to get my drum during these offers. I did ask a local dealer if they could get some in for me but they wanted a lot more than Morris OnLine.   and Morris deliver direct to the boat.

 

................Dave