Sail boat on canal?

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, kd-shard said:

but its a bare bones project.

Maybe you are already aware but ……………….

 

To go on the Rivers or canals the boat will need to have a BSS (Boat Safety Certificate - like a car MOT) with all the systems checked for compliance (for example camping type gas stoves with integral cartridges are banned). Petrol and Gas must be stored in purpose built airtight lockers etc etc etc.

Your boat will need a licence (like your car 'road tax')

Your boat will need Insurance (3rd party minimum)

 

The rules vary slightly between Navigation Authorities but the above is a general guide.

 

You will need to look at which waters you intend to use and then apply for a licence from the relevant Authorities (for example it could be the EA, C&RT or The Broads) There are 28 different Navigation Authorities around the country.

 

Will you be keeping the boat 'at home' on a trailer, or, will you be getting a mooring somewhere ?

 

 

If you decide to 'go to sea' it is much cheaper and there is no need for all the 'paperwork' (BSS, Licence etc) that there is on the canals.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[kd-shard]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe you are already aware but ……………….

 

To go on the Rivers or canals the boat will need to have a BSS (Boat Safety Certificate - like a car MOT) with all the systems checked for compliance (for example camping type gas stoves with integral cartridges are banned). Petrol and Gas must be stored in purpose built airtight lockers etc etc etc.

Your boat will need a licence (like your car 'road tax')

Your boat will need Insurance (3rd party minimum)

 

The rules vary slightly between Navigation Authorities but the above is a general guide.

 

You will need to look at which waters you intend to use and then apply for a licence from the relevant Authorities (for example it could be the EA, C&RT or The Broads) There are 28 different Navigation Authorities around the country.

 

Will you be keeping the boat 'at home' on a trailer, or, will you be getting a mooring somewhere ?

 

 

If you decide to 'go to sea' it is much cheaper and there is no need for all the 'paperwork' (BSS, Licence etc) that there is on the canals.

Hi. Yes I did look into all these different things. Plan is to fix it up out of water on a yard, then put it back into water. We will be paying mooring fees and have our eye on a few places that are reasonably priced. These are on rivers deep enough that accommodate for some big boats also so for now they will be okay. I know the sea would be cheaper but its also the weather, the tides, among other things that are a bit of putting not to mention around where we are there isn't many great places for a boat on the sea. Not like a place you can park your car and jump onto your boat like other places offer. 

To be honest I would be avoiding mooring it until I needed it in the water but we already have 2 trailers and 2 cars on our driveway. I think the neighbors would star complaining if we then stuck a boat on there too.

[Momac]

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you decide to 'go to sea' it is much cheaper and there is no need for all the 'paperwork' (BSS, Licence etc) that there is on the canals.

Amazingly so.

[Murflynn]

that looks like a lovely hull shape.  The keel is clearly 'stuck on' and is probably retained by keel bolts, so it would be easy to remove.   The boat would need at least as much weight in ballast fixed in the bilges as the weight of the keel that has been removed.  IMHO the boat is utterly unsuitable for the canals, but would make a lovely cruiser on the Thames or other major river.  Unless you keep the boat on the Broads (and have a hinged mast) or on an estuary it would not be practical to sail the boat anywhere on an inland river so the mast should go.   The deep rudder should go as well.  

[dmr]

1 hour ago, kd-shard said:

Brilliant link thank you! Didn't even know such a guide existed. This is quite a small sail boat. It is 6ft 11" wide and 22ft long. 

But the information in that link is an aspiration not a reality. And even if it was true there are all sorts of shopping trollies, bricks, pusbikes, motorbikes and even the odd safe sitting on the bottom of many canals.

 

...............Dave

[DandV]

A keel tracking through the sludge on the canal bottom would create it's own tramline rendering the rudder useless.

Sailboats are specialist boats designed for sailing. Canal boats are specialist boats designed for canals. 

 

[David Mack]

If you remove the keel I'm guessing the draft will be less than 2ft, in which case you will be fine for depth on the canal. I assume you will need some ballast under the floor for stability. The rounded hull shape will mean you can get close to the bank more or less anywhere.

But I wonder how the hull thickness compares with grp cruisers designed for canal and river use. 

[bizzard]

The draft of that hull without the fin keel as far as I can tell is about 2ft. So here's an idea to ballast the boat low down.  Procure say two short lengths of railway line, in fact the lenth of the fin keel if measured close up to the hull.  Shove these bits of railway line one up on each side of the fin keel hard up against the hull and bolt and nut through to hold em on, finally saw of the waste bit of keel off flush with below the railway lines. This modification should make the draft about 3ft in depth. So nip over to your nearest railway and measure the depth of a railway line and measure ''my guess'' at the hulls draft without the fin keel, add together to determine final draft.

  Of course there are other things which can be substituted for railway lines like a pair old battleships 12'' gun shells which have a pointed nose which would mean less resistance through the water although the railway lines if ground off at an angle at the ends would be much the same.

     If you happen to weigh between 30 and 40 stone you wouldn't really need extra ballast as long as when you step onto the boat your stride will allow you to step plumb centre into the boat when boarding and remain in the centre to save upsetting it, the same disembarking. Otherwise perhaps a crane might be hired to crane you in and out.

 

[Dr Bob]

56 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

that looks like a lovely hull shape.  The keel is clearly 'stuck on' and is probably retained by keel bolts, so it would be easy to remove.   The boat would need at least as much weight in ballast fixed in the bilges as the weight of the keel that has been removed.  IMHO the boat is utterly unsuitable for the canals, but would make a lovely cruiser on the Thames or other major river.............  The deep rudder should go as well.  

I agree with wot he said.

I'm not sure you could get that sort of weight in the bilges. Without the keel it might be too unstable for rivers. 

It would be a great project for the Great Glen in Scotland. Park it in Fort Augustus and cruise the canal and Loch Ness (with a keel). Not too far from Essex.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Dr Bob

[bizzard]

25 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If you remove the keel I'm guessing the draft will be less than 2ft, in which case you will be fine for depth on the canal. I assume you will need some ballast under the floor for stability. The rounded hull shape will mean you can get close to the bank more or less anywhere.

But I wonder how the hull thickness compares with grp cruisers designed for canal and river use. 

It would be beefed up considerably around the keel area in order to remain stiff and not snap off  or tear a hole out of the hull when sailing, tacking, ''beating'' into the wind mainly when side pressure on it is greatest.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

It would be a great project for the Great Glen in Scotland. Park it in Fort Augustus and cruise the canal and Loch Ness. Not too far from Essex.

Not without a keel it wouldn't !!

[dmr]

Your starting with the wrong boat, a little narrowboat or plastic cruiser would make more sense and be more cost effective. You are going to spend a lot of time, effort, and a bit of money converting a sailing boat to a canal boat. However one of the great things about the cut is the diversity and eccentricity of some boats so as long as you are up for a project then go for it.   We met a bigish sailing boat on the L&L just outside Liverpool last year hoping to get across to the East Coast and he told me that a few ago he had taken a much smaller sailing boat right across the country and through Wolverhampton.

 

...............Dave

[Dr Bob]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not without a keel it wouldn't !!

No, I did edit it before you posted! Defo need a keel!

[Slim]

Take the keel off a Pandora and it would be as tender as hell. A non starter

Take the keel off a Pandora and it would be as tender as hell. A non starter

Take the keel off a Pandora and it would be as tender as hell. A non starter

 

Sorry, didn't intend to comment 3 times

Edited December 18, 2019 by Slim

[bizzard]

Could be made into a Tri- meringue for extra stability for wider waters with wide locks like the Thames, Lea and grand Onion. But no wider than about 13ft for the locks. And wouldn't need any ballast at all.   Sweet.

Edited December 19, 2019 by bizzard

[BilgePump]

Lovely sailing boats Pandoras but fin keel old yachts at the small, old and tired end can be cheap as beans. Reason being value of trailer or cost of deep water mooring. A 22' boat on CRT waters will cost over £1k/yr for licence and cheap mooring. There are far more suitable cabin cruisers out there at the budget end and they have no issues with depth of the canals.

[Kudzucraft]

Keep in mind a sailboat hull shape is much rounder than anything used on the canals. Narrow boats are flat bottom which is inherently more stable but even they need ballast.

 

Remove the keel and that sailboats round hull is going to be way less stable and maybe significantly so? Really not sure but I am sure it is going to need  ballast to be comfortable or every move you make the boat is going to move from side to side.

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, Kudzucraft said:

Keep in mind a sailboat hull shape is much rounder than anything used on the canals. Narrow boats are flat bottom which is inherently more stable but even they need ballast.

 

 

Really? Have you ever taken a narrow boat out onto lumpy water? Narrow boats may give the impression that they're inherently stable, but that perceived stability come less from the hull shape and more from the tonnes of ballast in the bottom plus the flat canal water that most users rarely stray from.

[Momac]

9 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

But I wonder how the hull thickness compares with grp cruisers designed for canal and river use. 

I cant imagine any issues with that. A sea boat has to be able to deal with waves.

[doratheexplorer]

Once fixed up, I'd keep it on the Gloucester and Sharpness Canal.  You'll have no problem with depth, lots of lovely places to explore up the Severn and the Avon.

[Mad Harold]

Sounds like a fairly major project.I am sure it can be made more suitable for canals with a lot of work.

The keel will have to go,and as Bizz says,replaced with something heavy.

Havn't seen sections of railway line for sale on e bay,but perhaps a section of RSJ (I section steel beam) would fit the bill.

The interior of sailboats is usually very cramped and someone did mention hull thickness.My Norman 20 hull sides are 6mm thick.I measured when I fitted a hull fitting.

If you are up for a challenge,go for it,it will be quite a rare boat to see on canals.

However,small grp cruisers sold as projects can be picked up for a few hundred quid,and I think I would go down that route.

[Ray T]

 

Just my humble opinion, why spoil such a beautiful craft?

 

Coming from ex offshore, personally I would refurbish her as a sea boat.

[harrybsmith]

There's a chap on the river Soar who has done something similar with (I think) a Newbridge Corribee. Shorten the keel and give it a go! If it's £60 then it's hardly a desirable collector piece,  even if it totally doesn't work not much lost, if it does you've got a great project and possibly a decent tiny house

[Sea Dog]

21 hours ago, kd-shard said:

purchased a 22ft sail boat for a sum of £60, . We have plans to convert it into a tiny home

£60 quid sail boat for a home? Luxury!  We used to live in a cardboard box in t'middle o' t'road!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

21 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

What shape is the hull of the boat and is it a fin keel? Sailing boats are designed with a keel to stop them inverting. Sawing off the keel even with no mast or sails could make it very unstable and it may be difficult to get enough weight in the bilge to make it stable. How old is it? The older boats ie pre 1990's are likely to have much better stability.

Knowing a fair bit about sailing yachts, it seems a daft idea to me to saw the keel off to use it on shallow canals.

I tend to think back to the Fastnet Race of 1979 when those boats lost their keels they turned turtle, can the OP be certain this boat wont do the same if he cuts the keel off? Any ballast that is put into the bilge will need to be fixed in some way since sailing boats are designed to be able to list and if it does so with unfixed ballast in the bilge, it will just slide across leading to a capsize anyway. I would agree that cutting the keel off doesn't sound like a good idea.