March of the Widebeams

[Ray T]

42 minutes ago, carlt said:

 

But if you try hard enough...

Looks like "Junk" to me.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Ray T

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, BWM said:

I was surprised at how much damage is happening to the arch of many bridges north of Braunston, which has been caused by over square cabins. Whilst I appreciate this has also been caused by narrow boats, the amount and scale of damage seems to have increased with the number of widebeams. I was surprised to see one heading south through Lapworth last week, and noticed that had removed a third of a brick from two local bridges.

I trust you mean Kingswood rather than Lapworth! Otherwise there really would be some serious damage . . . 

[X Alan W]

At the beginning of the growth of leisure boat building the shell builders were into the tumble home & other things in the way of guards hull shapes that made for a boat that swam well didn't usually hang up in locks & didn't hit the bridge arch with the cabin roof /side corner before the gunnal height guard fended the boat off the bridge structure Then came the get the most space from a set size built by steell fabricators rather than canal boat builders swims became shorter cabin sides were more vertical & higher so became bridge "clobberes " if extreme care was not employed & then the wide beams which with their dimensions & shape are even more likely to do demolition work to the over cut brick/stone structures

[Detling]

Many of the new widebeams actually have the front top corners of the cabin wider than the gunwhale at that point as the sides were still sweeping out from the bow. There is no way they are not going to hit bridges 4 to 5 foot above the water. Maybe the repairs required will be paid for by the 20% surcharge.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, X Alan W said:

At the beginning of the growth of leisure boat building the shell builders were into the tumble home & other things in the way of guards hull shapes that made for a boat that swam well didn't usually hang up in locks & didn't hit the bridge arch with the cabin roof /side corner before the gunnal height guard fended the boat off the bridge structure Then came the get the most space from a set size built by steell fabricators rather than canal boat builders swims became shorter cabin sides were more vertical & higher so became bridge "clobberes " if extreme care was not employed & then the wide beams which with their dimensions & shape are even more likely to do demolition work to the over cut brick/stone structures

In fairness you are just talking about " widebeams " in the modern day. The term widebeam has been recently adopted perhaps only as recently as within the last forty years? to  mainly mean fat narrowboats. My old Dad never used the term when he spoke to me about his work when he lived and worked aboard barges he drove from Goole/Hull to Nottingham from 1934 onwards. We must all remember that the weird  and unusual beam is the " Narrowbeam " boat. Huge amounts of cargo where moved around the UK from ports such as Hull and Goole to mention but two without and with narrowbeam boats.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Detling said:

Many of the new widebeams actually have the front top corners of the cabin wider than the gunwhale at that point as the sides were still sweeping out from the bow. There is no way they are not going to hit bridges 4 to 5 foot above the water. Maybe the repairs required will be paid for by the 20% surcharge.

I have never seen a normal beam boat going through for instance Allens lock on the Oxford canal but there are plenty of cabin strikes on its brickwork. Methinks many narrowboat owners are rather narrow minded.

[Bewildered]

9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have never seen a normal beam boat going through for instance Allens lock on the Oxford canal but there are plenty of cabin strikes on its brickwork. Methinks many narrowboat owners are rather narrow minded.

To be fair Allen's lock has a rather tight bridge hole set at a stupid angle to the main channel with a fast flowing by wash cleverly placed a few yards in front of the bridge hole. Even experienced boaters can have trouble with this bridge.

What worries me is when chunks are missing from bridges that are plenty wide enough and not on bends, how the hell people still manage to hit them is a complete mystery. 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Bewildered said:

To be fair Allen's lock has a rather tight bridge hole set at a stupid angle to the main channel with a fast flowing by wash cleverly placed a few yards in front of the bridge hole. Even experienced boaters can have trouble with this bridge.

What worries me is when chunks are missing from bridges that are plenty wide enough and not on bends, how the hell people still manage to hit them is a complete mystery. 

Yes I agree its a pig. BUT its the what I find weird attitude of actualy quite a few narrowboaters that have little understanding of boats/boat handling in general that knock any boat that is not  in the minority 7 foot wide category. Completely weird.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Detling said:

Many of the new widebeams actually have the front top corners of the cabin wider than the gunwhale at that point as the sides were still sweeping out from the bow. There is no way they are not going to hit bridges 4 to 5 foot above the water. Maybe the repairs required will be paid for by the 20% surcharge.

That's simply because the cabin sides are too vertical without enough tumblehome. I see the same thing on some narrowboats too and they're just as likely to hit narrow bridges and tunnel entrances. Having said that I can only actually recall having seen one boat that had damaged front cabin top (handrail) from hitting a bridge. 

 

But these gripes about widebeams don't actually make a lot of sense when you think about it.  There are plenty of places on the narrow canals which are just as congested with narrowboats as there are places on the broad canals which are congested with widebeams. It's the same thing, but you don't hear people moaning about other narrowboats in quite the same way. 

 

Oh, wait a minute... I forgot, moaning is what some narrowboaters love to do!  ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

There’s so many scrapes and scars in the Standedge Tunnel it looks like someone has tried to march a fat boat through.   

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

There’s so many scrapes and scars in the Standedge Tunnel it looks like someone has tried to march a fat boat through.   

Did you do any scraping? Goliath is a fine boat for those low tunnels but it must be a long time to keep the concentration going.

 

...........Dave.

[matty40s]

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

There’s so many scrapes and scars in the Standedge Tunnel it looks like someone has tried to march a fat boat through.   

They only allow widebeams through at night so as not to scare the narrowboats.

[peterboat]

7 hours ago, dmr said:

Many years ago Jaguar told me they would Never built an estate and Never fit a diesel engine. I told then that when I was rich I was going to get a Jaguar and have it converted into a camper van. The've done the estate and diesel but I'm still waiting for the camper (and to be rich).

 

.........Dave

Thankfully they have seen sense and are dropping all the diesels not sureif its next year or 2020

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, dmr said:

The've done the estate...

Sportbrake, please

 

JLR don’t make estates. 

 

They make an SUV, they used to make a Sportbrake. Rumour mill says they will be making one again soon. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

37 minutes ago, dmr said:

Did you do any scraping? Goliath is a fine boat for those low tunnels but it must be a long time to keep the concentration going.

 

...........Dave.

I was pretty good, but yes it is a long time to concentrate and I did do a bit of bumping about. Hopefully going back through in a few weeks. I love it. You’d love it. 

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

I was pretty good, but yes it is a long time to concentrate and I did do a bit of bumping about. Hopefully going back through in a few weeks. I love it. You’d love it. 

How much checking of boat dimensions did they do, and how tight was it (and the locks)? We are a little over 6 foot 10 towards the back but I would love to do the Huddersfield.

 

..............Dave

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

How much checking of boat dimensions did they do, and how tight was it (and the locks)? We are a little over 6 foot 10 towards the back but I would love to do the Huddersfield.

 

..............Dave

Pretty thorough checking. They have all the tech. A large right angle with feet and inches marked with a felt pen. They measure draft, air draft and width of the gunnels and cabin top.

I think Gosty tunnel is lower? You got through that. A 70 footer would be tricky to get through the tunnel here because it aint straight in places but it’s doable. Very deep water through out so that’s not a problem for you, you shouldn’t catch a tyre. Fantastic viewing in there. You’ll have to see it. 

If you are interested I’ll ask tomorrow, I’m still west end of tunnel, Diggle. 

Post me dimentions of Vox and I’ll ask. 

[X Alan W]

13 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

In fairness you are just talking about " widebeams " in the modern day. The term widebeam has been recently adopted perhaps only as recently as within the last forty years? to  mainly mean fat narrowboats. My old Dad never used the term when he spoke to me about his work when he lived and worked aboard barges he drove from Goole/Hull to Nottingham from 1934 onwards. We must all remember that the weird  and unusual beam is the " Narrowbeam " boat. Huge amounts of cargo where moved around the UK from ports such as Hull and Goole to mention but two without and with narrowbeam boats.

The point I was try to put was in the days of working craft whatever the beam the design & construction was such that & the skill of the boatman, bridge clobbering was a much rarer happening than present day which seems to be caused by a combination of boat dimensions/ shape & steerers skill as  a boat leaving it's mooring for a few days per year the skill of the steerer cannot usually be to the skill of someone boating all day & every day I am in no way knocking any one just stating the way things have evolved In regard to terms many have changed from working days & I used the modern terms as a number of today's boaters do not use or know of the terms/sayings from the commercial days

Edited May 2, 2018 by X Alan W

[dmr]

9 hours ago, Goliath said:

Pretty thorough checking. They have all the tech. A large right angle with feet and inches marked with a felt pen. They measure draft, air draft and width of the gunnels and cabin top.

I think Gosty tunnel is lower? You got through that. A 70 footer would be tricky to get through the tunnel here because it aint straight in places but it’s doable. Very deep water through out so that’s not a problem for you, you shouldn’t catch a tyre. Fantastic viewing in there. You’ll have to see it. 

If you are interested I’ll ask tomorrow, I’m still west end of tunnel, Diggle. 

Post me dimentions of Vox and I’ll ask. 

Yes please

I've checked against the dimensions that are on the internet and we are fine except the width, its ok over most of the length but there is an extra guard iron (rubbing strake) at the back which puts us a 6 foot 11, maybe even 6 foot 11 and a half, over the back 10 feet or so.

 

.............Dave

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 2 May 2018 at 10:14, dmr said:

Yes please

I've checked against the dimensions that are on the internet and we are fine except the width, its ok over most of the length but there is an extra guard iron (rubbing strake) at the back which puts us a 6 foot 11, maybe even 6 foot 11 and a half, over the back 10 feet or so.

 

.............Dave

The width limit is 6'10", which I'm sure you know, so I doubt they'd let you through. 

What do you mean by an extra rubbing strake, do you mean you have one on top of another? If so, do you need it? Would it make life easier to remove it or grind down a half inch either side? 

Some of the locks are dead tight too so chances are you'll get stuck somewhere. 

Unless someone has made it along the Huddersfield with those dimensions?

 

going back to topic and the original post, that fat boat has been at Alvocote for a few years. I think it does live in the marina. 

[Guest]

There was a widebeam moored up in front of me the other day. It was the antithesis of the canals. It was easily 70ft long and easily 14ft wide. It had a satellite dish on the roof and an anchor that would tie down an oil rig hanging off the front.

 

Get on the Thames you nobber. The canal isn't for you pal.

[Slim]

On 01/05/2018 at 15:56, Alan de Enfield said:

She may be 23 feet fat but she does have graceful lines :

 

 

And sails like a p g. Sorry, compared to something like a Rival 38 it just 'aint got it and I've sailed both.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Slim said:

And sails like a p g. Sorry, compared to something like a Rival 38 it just 'aint got it and I've sailed both.

 

And I was far too polite to enquire as to whether Alan had posted the wrong photo when he said 'graceful lines' 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder, as they say.

[Neil2]

On 02/05/2018 at 10:14, dmr said:

Yes please

I've checked against the dimensions that are on the internet and we are fine except the width, its ok over most of the length but there is an extra guard iron (rubbing strake) at the back which puts us a 6 foot 11, maybe even 6 foot 11 and a half, over the back 10 feet or so.

 

.............Dave

 

I'd be interested to know if (in the modern era) anyone has ever done the HNC in a 70 footer, given that you can only go as far as Huddersfield.   To get to Yorkshire only to have to turn round and head back over the Pennines to Lancashire doesn't bear thinking about.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

And sails like a p g. Sorry, compared to something like a Rival 38 it just 'aint got it and I've sailed both.

We sailed her back from Croatia a trip of 3100 miles in 30 days (including 3 days in marinas R&R) seemed to sail pretty well.

Personally I prefer a couple of big engines but my son likes 'rag & stick'.

 

The Rival is only half-a-boat