Historic Boats for sale online

[FMC Ling 317]

When I first saw her she still had wooden gunnels, a few years later BW had done something to the gunnels including taking the wood off. Memory suggests she had some sort of cut out towards the fore end potentially to hold a cable reel, whatever it was it altered the sweeping lines of the gunnel.

Having checked my photos it wasnt a chunk out as much as a botched alteration to them, you can see the angle doesnt sweep up it runs straight and then comes off at an angle.

 

Ah yes they welded chequer plate to the angle irons (still there under the new) and had to make the last bit up as the deck beam was already metal I belive. The cants were shocking as we're leaking and rotting from inside out.

 

Any photos of her back then to pass on for her history?

[AMModels]

Only other one Ive got is this one

 

[IanM]

I've always thought these bows are the worst to come up against in a bridge hole...

 

https://flic.kr/p/4xR8GD

 

On my phone right now so can't post the image, just the link.

[RLWP]

Upper Narrow Staircase Locks - Staffordshire & Worcestershire Canal by Ian, on Flickr

[Laurence Hogg]

Only other one Ive got is this one

 

 

When I examined this craft prior to auction I could find little wrong with what was an evolved work boat. True the deck upstands welded in were wrong as the boat never had them to start with but little else phased me. "Ling" was and is a round 50-60% original with sensible (then ) alterations which befitted her role.

 

People overlook these boats survived in service because of the adaptions.

 

"Ling" today looks nice, is nice but has shed much of her history, no longer a work boat, now a pretend working boat.

In that guise a nice example of "good work done" and worthy of a new lease of life.

 

I used to see her in the original ex FMC guise, slowly decaying and on a road to no where. Since the converts, now at least her future is secured.

[FMC Ling 317]

Boats can carry there history forward as proven by Barnet which also had her BW cabin removed by an organisation that gave up the project and handed her back to be before finishing by the organisation you were with Laurence.as for orginality the bow deck had been altered bottom replaced in 6mm plus BW cabin put on and rear deck (which remains) so all that's changed is bow deck to bow cabin cabin replaced with a good looking replica ( unlike some ) bottom now 10 mm and the extra work of footings to bottom guard. Not however the knees haven't been cut to fit the footings. Everything that has been done is simple to undo as the BW cabin remains in existence and the BW chequer plate is under the new gunnels. Seing how this work was scheduled to be undertaken as part of the original tender from BW using your drawings and guidance I don't see why you keep banging on about lost history.

[Derek R.]

I do not consider any boat that has been taken back to its origins as built as a "pretend" working boat. Pretence may be in the minds of some owners possibly, but in the main they are showing what any particular boat was like when originally built - and that will of necessity involve new steel somewhere. I think LING looks great now, as does SICKLE without the bastardised cabins that were fitted due to certain regulations about health and safety. The history of a craft will change with the times (some of it collected in dents), and in some instances such as with the shortened Middle Northwich's those changes were made for a specific reason - a shortened boat was easier to break ice with, and as there are a few full length ones around there's no need to revert to 70 odd feet for them or chopping the blade off TYCHO. Maintenance boats were not usually lived in either, so reverting to a back cabin for cruising and show makes sense - it's reverting to origins - historical ones.

[alan_fincher]

I do not consider any boat that has been taken back to its origins as built as a "pretend" working boat. Pretence may be in the minds of some owners possibly, but in the main they are showing what any particular boat was like when originally built - and that will of necessity involve new steel somewhere. I think LING looks great now, as does SICKLE without the bastardised cabins that were fitted due to certain regulations about health and safety. The history of a craft will change with the times (some of it collected in dents), and in some instances such as with the shortened Middle Northwich's those changes were made for a specific reason - a shortened boat was easier to break ice with, and as there are a few full length ones around there's no need to revert to 70 odd feet for them or chopping the blade off TYCHO. Maintenance boats were not usually lived in either, so reverting to a back cabin for cruising and show makes sense - it's reverting to origins - historical ones.

 

A difficult one isn't it? Some of the boats were bastardised by BW in truly horrendous ways that not only showed no respect at all for any history, but also resulted in boats not even particularly suitable for maintenance duties, let alone any chance of it still being possible to live on one. Others were far less butchered, and in the better cases the hulls remained largely uncut, even if they acquired some kind of new reverse layout cabin of very little finesse.

 

It is all very well for those who don't own them to sit in judgement on to what extent the BW modifications should be stripped out and more original arrangements put back, but at the end of the day the choice can only be that of the owner dictated by how they see things, and how they want to use the resulting boat.

 

We are very grateful that the Parrotts decided that "Sickle" should so far as possible resemble its 1960s BW maintenance boat guise, but arguably they should therefore have only reconstructed the engine room in riveted steel, and should have slapped on a timber back cabin sheathed in plywood. I have no idea when "Sickle" originally lost its Yarwoods built riveted steel back cabin, but don't have qualms that a decision was taken to replicate it on the rebuild, even though a 1960s "Sickle" had already lost it.

 

Of course "Sickle's" conventional back cabin with full scumbling and roses and castles treatment is also incorrect for a BW maintenance boat, but as we have to live on it as we take it around the system, our needs are very different from those of BW day workers where a simple cup of tea facility was all they usually needed.

 

I'm happy to accept the compromises made, but would never claim "Sickle" to be a spot on reconstruction of any part of her working life, (which lasted about 65 years - double that of "Flamingo" even though "Flamingo" was still at work on the very last of the long distance regular traffics).

 

If anybody wants a fair idea of what "Sickle" was like in her later BW existance there are still good examples of modified boats that have not been changed back - "Renton" being an obvious tug, with an even later survival date as still on maintenance. If you want an example of considerably more butchery by BW, then there is "Carnaby" that even retains its cut away hull sides, and where I believe the intention is to leave it as modified. In extremis there is even "Slough", (actually "Deimos") - so much modified its bow gives few clues to its origins.

 

One thing not mentioned, apart from any "liveability" issues is that nearly all these butcherings by BW moved the engine to the back, more or less directly below the steerer's feet. Anybody who regulaly does battle with a 2 or 3 cylinder HA, HB or HR engine even in a conventional engine room will be able to tell you why you really do not want them moved a further eight feet or so closer to you!

 

I love the diversity in the way people have chosen and continue to chose about how to present their historic boats - long may it continue!

[Laurence Hogg]

Boats can carry there history forward as proven by Barnet which also had her BW cabin removed by an organisation that gave up the project and handed her back to be before finishing by the organisation you were with Laurence. ------- Seeing how this work was scheduled to be undertaken as part of the original tender from BW using your drawings and guidance I don't see why you keep banging on about lost history.

 

Not sure you have this correct, I was with no organisation at all and was a sole lease holder to start with. The original cabin was removed by BW and a "space age" Bulls Bridge style one replaced it, this was then removed by "Beechdale Canal Trust" who never completed the replacement going down soon afterwards.

 

I took "Barnet" on and finished the job at Bradley workshops, worked for three years for Walsall council with the boat, spent a year working with BW trying to attract loads and then handed the boat back in 2003. After that I reaquired it and purchased it.

 

"Ling" looks great now and its good you have kept the bits as at least the history is still present. Good luck with the sale.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[David Mack]

Walton's Heart of Oak

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50ft-Wooden-Narrow-boat-for-sale-in-Chester-/301758444606

[Laurence Hogg]

What a lovely boat and one of the last too. Think you will find it was built at Coseley (Walton's yard on Matty's Dock) and then fitted out at Norbury.

[junior]

Loose track of what's been posted on here and what hasn't.

 

Have we seen this before?? AD advert is only 1 day old.

 

https://m.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=446376

[Tecka]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50ft-Wooden-Narrow-boat-for-sale-in-Chester-/301758444606

 

I went to see this on Monday. Very tempted but I just wouldn't be able to do her justice in any way, a lot of work and I wouldn't know where to start.

The guy selling is a nice guy and genuine reasons for sale. Will be stunning once more with the right person.

[pete harrison]

Loose track of what's been posted on here and what hasn't.

 

Have we seen this before?? AD advert is only 1 day old.

 

https://m.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=446376

Yes it has been listed on this thread before, but not as a motorised butty.

[Athy]

There looks to be some excellent work in there, But a Canaline engine in that type of boat seems rather incongruous, unless perhaps there is no room for anything chunkier.

[Ray T]

There looks to be some excellent work in there, But a Canaline engine in that type of boat seems rather incongruous, unless perhaps there is no room for anything chunkier.

 

I stand correction here but I believe Koukouvagia has a BMC in his motorised butty. The engine powers a hydraulic drive in the elum and the butty has retained it original profile at the stern.

[alan_fincher]

There looks to be some excellent work in there, But a Canaline engine in that type of boat seems rather incongruous, unless perhaps there is no room for anything chunkier.

 

 

 

I stand correction here but I believe Koukouvagia has a BMC in his motorised butty. The engine powers a hydraulic drive in the elum and the butty has retained it original profile at the stern.

 

Yes, but the pictures here clearly show a boat with conventional stern gear and prop, and a fairly modified back end that has given some kind iof counter and dispensed with a butty elum in favour of a steel rudder, (which looks fairly insubstantial?). There is even a weed hatch, it seems.

 

What I can't see made clear is where the engine is located, and what the drive train is, but it is hard to see how the back cabin with "many original features" can possibly have retained anything like its original headroom. Butty back cabins sit much lower above the hull, because the floor does not need to be raised by at leat a foot and a half to accommodate a long prop-shaft.

 

So where is the engine? Forward of back cabin, with a conventional prop-shaft,? I'm really not sure.

 

Nice fit out, but has lost much of its originality as a River class butty, I would say.

Edited October 9, 2015 by alan_fincher

[koukouvagia]

 

I stand correction here but I believe Koukouvagia has a BMC in his motorised butty. The engine powers a hydraulic drive in the elum and the butty has retained it original profile at the stern.

But there is a difference. I put the BMC/hydraulic drive in firstly because there was no room for a conventional prop shaft - the back cabin is too low and secondly I wanted whatever I did to the boat to be reversible. If any future owner wants to return the butty to its original form, swapping the elum back would be a simple matter. I wouldn't have wanted to turn a butty into a motor with a different back end.

 

I do like the interior fit out of Cam.

 

By the way, is it "ellum" or "elum"? I'm never sure of the spelling.

 

eta. Alan beat me to it with his observations

Edited October 9, 2015 by koukouvagia

[junior]

There looks to be some excellent work in there,

I agree, it's a lovely fit out inside.

 

I'm interested in what they have done with the underside of the 'blue tops' at the front. Looks like they have been painted or sprayed with something to give a nice clean white finish. Anybody got any ideas what they might have used?

 

I've looked at a couple of buttys recently that have had basic sympathetic undercloth conversations done and been impressed with the results.

I also looked in a 'blue top' and noted that the headroom was nowhere near that of an 'under cloths' conversion and wondered what could be done to keep the blue top look but to increase the headroom to enable an adult to stand up. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions? Has anything like this been done in the past?

[magnetman]

But there is a difference. I put the BMC/hydraulic drive in firstly because there was no room for a conventional prop shaft - the back cabin is too low and secondly I wanted whatever I did to the boat to be reversible. If any future owner wants to return the butty to its original form, swapping the elum back would be a simple matter. I wouldn't have wanted to turn a butty into a motor with a different back end.

 

I do like the interior fit out of Cam.

 

By the way, is it "ellum" or "elum"? I'm never sure of the spelling.

 

eta. Alan beat me to it with his observations

I think its elum as it is a way of pronouncing "helm" AFAIK

 

May be wrong

 

CAM is a very nice boat but £60k is an awful lot of money for it IMO

 

(Eta just noticed it is actually asking £69k )

Edited October 9, 2015 by magnetman

[FMC Ling 317]

I think its elum as it is a way of pronouncing "helm" AFAIK

May be wrong

CAM is a very nice boat but £60k is an awful lot of money for it IMO

(Eta just noticed it is actually asking £69k )

Isn't the motor conversation recent as im sure last time was for sale it didn't have an engine.

I agree, it's a lovely fit out inside.

I'm interested in what they have done with the underside of the 'blue tops' at the front. Looks like they have been painted or sprayed with something to give a nice clean white finish. Anybody got any ideas what they might have used?

I've looked at a couple of buttys recently that have had basic sympathetic undercloth conversations done and been impressed with the results.

I also looked in a 'blue top' and noted that the headroom was nowhere near that of an 'under cloths' conversion and wondered what could be done to keep the blue top look but to increase the headroom to enable an adult to stand up. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions? Has anything like this been done in the past?

If your brave increase the depth of footings so holds deeper

[pete harrison]

Isn't the motor conversation recent as im sure last time was for sale it didn't have an engine.

The current advert states that the engine was fitted this summer. CAM was still for sale at the end of 2014 as a butty with a Yamaha outboard engine for £49000, and in April 2013 was up for £59500.

[Athy]

Isn't the motor conversation recent ?

 

 

No, I've sometimes talked to my Gardner while I'm cleaning it for years. I'm pleased to know that someone else is now doing the same. I was beginning to think I was slightly unusual.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Athy

[magnetman]

No, I've sometimes talked to my Gardner while I'm cleaning it for years. I'm pleased to know that someone else is now doing the same. I was beginning to think I was slightly unusual.

A conversation with a Gardner is probably going to be quite interesting compared with most motors - with seasonal variations I imagine

[BEngo]

Try a conversation with a Kelvin- you'd best be able to speak broad Glaswegian.

 

N