Angry and impatient boaters

[NB Alnwick]

Is it my imagination, or are our waterways populated with a higher proportion of impatient and/or angry boaters these days.

Cruising our waterways was always a pleasant experience and when meeting other boaters - either when passing boats or at locks we always greeted each other pleasantly. Sometimes we made mistakes and boats bumped but these miscalculations were readily forgiven in good nature.

I do feel that things seem have changed, there are a lot more boats about these days and many are handled with less skill and consideration than in times past. There would also appear to be a lot of boaters that are in a hurry, impatient or just angry at the thought of other boats using the same waterway. Unfortunately, being shouted at or receiving verbal abuse from an angry or impatient boater spoils our enjoyment of the waterways.

My thoughts are that some people have clearly chosen the wrong sort of lifestyle, hobby or holiday to suit their temperament!

[Naughty Cal]

It isn't just people on the waterways that are angry and impatient. 

 

Its the same across all walks of life.

 

It seems to be the modern way.

[Bee]

I think you are right. Back in my day boating was a DIY thing, - in fact it was quite normal to maintain your own car as well as your own boat and probably your own house , Barry Bucknell was on the telly, Haynes manuals were on library shelves and an  ancient joey boat with some sort of conversion was a home. Regulation was light and the canal system was interesting and fun. Not so much now though. Its hugely expensive, regulation is a nightmare, nobody knows how to fix their own boat, minor jobs are left to professionals, all the interesting stuff has been tidied up and sterile and as for the price of new boats......... Just silly. Yet the canals are still shallow, stuff doesn't always work, many places are no longer rural but lined with housing, warehouses, mud and miles of identical boats. The expectation does not match the 6 figure sum that the boat cost. There are a lot of people on the canals now looking for something that started to disappear in 1979 and it's no longer a secret world - it's rules, officials, money and the people are products of the 21st century, cross, irritable, entitled and boorish. I am glad I don't do my boating here now.

[Paul C]

Which bit is now being overregulated?

[Alan de Enfield]

It's not just canals - it is life as a whole.

 

Today everything has to be instant gratification, nothing is 'earned' but the expectation is that 'you' are owed a living . NOW !

 

Remember when we used to post a letter, or wait for a parcel to arrive - it could take days.

Remember taking the holiday pictures, you sent the film off for developing and (maye) a week later you could pick up the prints at the Chemist.

Remember ordering something from 'the catalogue' (or Exchange & Mart)  it took weeks to arrive.

Planning a holiday took weeks getting the car ready, servicing, topping up all the fluids, pumping up the tyres, and we went 50 miles to Skegness and stopped half way to have a picnic.

 

And on it goes - it was a totally different pace of life.

 

Today - you send an email with instant 'receive'

You take your holiday pics (1000s of them) select the ones you want and post them on social media - instantly everyone sees your holiday.

You order something from Amazon and its delivered the next day (or sooner)

Now we jump in a cab to the airport, and we are halfway around the world in a few hours.

 

And on it goes - it is a totally different pace of life.

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

14 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Which bit is now being overregulated?

Agreed. Regulations re the inland waterways are very few and easy to comply with 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Agreed. Regulations re the inland waterways are very few and easy to comply with 

 

But if you never had them and they just slowy crept in (BSS, Licence, Insurance, CC/HMer, widebeam surcharge etc) you may think that things have changed for the worse.

 

(Motor cycle helmets, Car Seat belts, drink driving, no smoking - it goes on across all areas of life)

 

Our rights are being eroded !

 

The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode their rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which those changes can be reversed.

Edited September 5 by Alan de Enfield

[robtheplod]

I found this when we did the Avon.... nobody around then when we were in the locks (being slow and very careful due to the potential to flood the boat!) - suddenly people coming the other way would appear and be impatient, telling us we can open up further and getting humphy about it....

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But if you never had them and they just slowy crept in (BSS, Licence, Insurance, CC/HMer, widebeam surcharge etc) you may think that things have changed for the worse.

 

(Motor cycle helmets, Car Seat belts, drink driving, no smoking - it goes on across all areas of life)

 

Our rights are being eroded !

 

The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode their rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which those changes can be reversed.

Of course many of these restrictions are limiting the opportunities for selfish people to do things which damage or kill other people, or have high costs for society -- meaning, other people.

 

So as a libertarian, are you in favour of getting rid of drink-driving and anti-smoking and seatbelt laws?

Edited September 5 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

Of course many of these restrictions are limiting the opportunities for selfish people to do things which damage or kill other people, or have high costs for society -- meaning, other people.

 

How does wearing a helmet or a seat belt damage or kill other people ?

 

Its back to the justification for CO alarms in boats. It is not illegal to commit suicide.

 

The NHS have said they will not treat fat people, or smokers, so, make 'suicide' attempts pay for their own treatment.

[Paul C]

46 minutes ago, Bee said:

........Back in my day boating was a DIY thing........................nobody knows how to fix their own boat, ................................. There are a lot of people on the canals now looking for something that started to disappear in 1979 and it's no longer a secret world - it's rules, officials, money and the people are products of the 21st century, cross, irritable, entitled and boorish. I am glad I don't do my boating here now.

 

 

Just a few snippets from your long post, but 1979 to now is 45 years. Yes, there's been a few relevant laws brought in which changes the "landscape" of canal boating but the pace of change in that 45 yrs isn't exactly spritely compared to other areas of life. Also I'd not really associate the pace of regulatory change with a shift from DIY maintenance to professionals, in fact I'd say boat engines are largely unchanged in that time period and are similarly DIY-friendly to maintain. They are possibly the last diesels to retain mech fuel pumps, not have an ECU, etc as plant/tractor/HGV engines all went over 10 or 20 years ago. You could make a reasonable argument that they are now over-regulated and not DIY friendly.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode their rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. 

 

The best way to improve quality of life is also to make small evolutionary steps, rather than big step changes in things.

 

Of course, one of the issues you face is that against a long time period of small incremental changes, you're also getting older and older and more intolerant/closed minded.

[Poster girl]

I would consider myself a patient boater and would never turn a lock or close a gate or deliberately upset anyone but l do find it really frustrating when you’re on a lock flight stuck behind someone who just makes no effort to do anything fast or efficiently. Something else that annoys me even more is men (usually) who do not move from the boat whilst their other halves struggle with lock gates and paddles. It’s alright taking your time but learn to use your time efficiently when it’s busy!

[IanD]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How does wearing a helmet or a seat belt damage or kill other people ?

 

Its back to the justification for CO alarms in boats. It is not illegal to commit suicide.

 

The NHS have said they will not treat fat people, or smokers, so, make 'suicide' attempts pay for their own treatment.

Please read what I wrote, where I also said "or have high costs to society -- meaning, other people".

 

As well as potentially injuring or killing themselves -- which you're saying is their business, and there is some justification for this -- motorcycle helmet wearing and seatbelts greatly reduce the costs to society and the NHS looking after injured and brain-damaged people, sometimes for many years or a lifetime.

 

But I suppose you think this is an invisible cost, which "someone else" has to pay for. If so, who do you think the "someone else" is?

 

And I suspect many families who have lost loved ones who were not wearing helmets or seatbelts might also think these laws are entirely justified, unless they really hated a family member who died as a result...

Edited September 5 by IanD

[Slim]

5 minutes ago, Poster girl said:

I would consider myself a patient boater and would never turn a lock or close a gate or deliberately upset anyone but l do find it really frustrating when you’re on a lock flight stuck behind someone who just makes no effort to do anything fast or efficiently. Something else that annoys me even more is men (usually) who do not move from the boat whilst their other halves struggle with lock gates and paddles. It’s alright taking your time but learn to use your time efficiently when it’s busy!

One question. Why does everything has to be done fast? A slightly tongue in cheek question but genuine one. 

[mrsmelly]

17 minutes ago, Poster girl said:

I would consider myself a patient boater and would never turn a lock or close a gate or deliberately upset anyone but l do find it really frustrating when you’re on a lock flight stuck behind someone who just makes no effort to do anything fast or efficiently. Something else that annoys me even more is men (usually) who do not move from the boat whilst their other halves struggle with lock gates and paddles. It’s alright taking your time but learn to use your time efficiently when it’s busy!

Good grief!! I never got off the boat in all our years, my missus did every lock alone, including many many times somerton deep lock unaided. This is why we have wives, it's common sense. Have you ever looked in a shoe shop window? You will find that on average women's shoes are smaller than mens, this is because women's feet are shorter than mens enabling them to get closer to the kitchen sink. There's a reason for everything.

Edited September 5 by mrsmelly

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

Please read what I wrote, where I also said "or have high costs to society -- meaning, other people".

 

As well as potentially injuring or killing themselves -- which you're saying is their business, and there is some justification for this -- motorcycle helmet wearing and seatbelts greatly reduce the costs to society and the NHS looking after injured and brain-damaged people, sometimes for many years or a lifetime.

 

Please read what I wrote :

 

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

...the NHS have said they will not treat fat people, or smokers, so, make 'suicide' attempts pay for their own treatment.

 

Just now, mrsmelly said:

There's a reason for everything.

 

 

Aparently women get married 'in white' as most domestic appliance come in that colour.

[NB Alnwick]

8 minutes ago, Slim said:

One question. Why does everything has to be done fast? A slightly tongue in cheek question but genuine one. 

 

An experienced boater can usually manage to get through locks and navigate the waterways efficiently and quite smartly without taking risks and still make time to be pleasant to other waterway users. I reckon that, even when I am navigating single handed, I am unlikely to hold any one up.

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Aparently women get married 'in white' as most domestic appliance come in that colour.

 

Recently, when coming down Napton locks a woman asked me why I was working the locks myself (I was single handed on that occasion) my reply was "because my wife had more important things to do" - that made her laugh!

[Tacet]

51 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I found this when we did the Avon.... nobody around then when we were in the locks (being slow and very careful due to the potential to flood the boat!) - suddenly people coming the other way would appear and be impatient, telling us we can open up further and getting humphy about it....

That does rather sound as though the other people had a reasonable point.  If boats suddenly and regularly appear having been nowhere in sight and the crew has time to get lockside to see your great care in drawing paddles, it suggests you might be taking your time. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

Which bit is now being overregulated?

 

Mandatory insurance for a start. Back in the good ol' days nobody had a boat worth enough that it needed insuring.

 

And the BSS. Whatever happened to the right to kill yourself with a leaky gas installation or petrol outboard? And never mind electrics, no-one had anything more than 12 Volts on board. 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But if you never had them and they just slowy crept in (BSS, Licence, Insurance, CC/HMer, widebeam surcharge etc) you may think that things have changed for the worse.

 

(Motor cycle helmets, Car Seat belts, drink driving, no smoking - it goes on across all areas of life)

 

Our rights are being eroded !

 

The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode their rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which those changes can be reversed.

Case overstated (accepting that there may be bits OK): licence has always been a need. CC/HMer, widebeam surcharge are not regulations but ways of charging now that tolls on goods carried do not fund the maintenance.

 

There is always a debate to be had, both over-arching principles and in detail, about BSS/RCD. However, in the light of the Grenfell Report and how organisations (commercial and governmental) behave in the absence of regulation it would be a tad ambitious to argue against them in principle.

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, Poster girl said:

Something else that annoys me even more is men (usually) who do not move from the boat whilst their other halves struggle with lock gates and paddles

Had this in front of us today so my wife went and assisted the struggling lady whilst I worked our boat through.  The man on the other boat didn't move from his seat on the stern until they moored up and he then went in to have his lunch which the lady had gone in and prepared for him.

1 hour ago, Slim said:

One question. Why does everything has to be done fast? A slightly tongue in cheek question but genuine one. 

It's not about doing it fast, it is about doing it efficiently.

[nicknorman]

Just now, Rob-M said:

Had this in front of us today so my wife went and assisted the struggling lady whilst I worked our boat through.  The man on the other boat didn't move from his seat on the stern until they moored up and he then went in to have his lunch which the lady had gone in and prepared for him.

But surely this(how a couple divide the work up) is nothing to do with anyone else. Maybe the chap had an injury or disability? Maybe the wife likes doing the locks and hates driving the boat? And anyway, you have committed a major faux pas by saying “moored up”. You moor. Or you tie up. You don’t moor up! So there.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Good grief!! I never got off the boat in all our years, my missus did every lock alone, including many many times somerton deep lock unaided. This is why we have wives, it's common sense. Have you ever looked in a shoe shop window? You will find that on average women's shoes are smaller than mens, this is because women's feet are shorter than mens enabling them to get closer to the kitchen sink. There's a reason for everything.

 

I'll bet that his wife isn't a forum member...  

 

[Rob-M]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Maybe the wife likes doing the locks and hates driving the boat

My wife enjoys doing the locks and won't drive the boat but if she is struggling to wind a paddle or push a gate I get off and help her if I'm not already off helping.  I don't expect her to ask a random person walking past to help.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

I found this when we did the Avon.... nobody around then when we were in the locks (being slow and very careful due to the potential to flood the boat!) - suddenly people coming the other way would appear and be impatient, telling us we can open up further and getting humphy about it....

That's just plain obnoxious, it's not their business to tell you what to do, just nod and tell them not to worry, stick to your own routine. Keep smiling in the face of adversity.

I know I've had an odd person trying to tell me how to do things their way, but it's very rare.  

Edited September 5 by LadyG