Angry and impatient boaters

[nicknorman]

Going back to the original post, we were out for 7 weeks over a July and August and I don’t think we encountered many or even any angry and impatient boaters. But then we like to be efficient and don’t tend to waste time messing about. A flight of locks is a “time and motion study” with the aim being to get through the flight in the most expeditious way whilst minimising effort expended. This might look like we are in a hurry but it’s just that I don’t find virtue in doing something at half speed that could just as easily be done at normal speed.

 

There are an increasing number of “one click wonders” who open the paddles very slowly even on the slowest and most a docile locks, and even sometimes the bottom paddles. And some people can be in a hurry or at least on a schedule for perfectly valid reasons, such as having to make a place at a time having been stymied by unexpected delays, suddenly receiving news that requires their attendance etc. We encountered such people on the Caldon at bottom of Hazelhurst flight, so having prepared the lock we said “you go in first”. I wouldn’t class them as “impatient” but they needed to get somewhere for a good reason.

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

My wife enjoys doing the locks and won't drive the boat but if she is struggling to wind a paddle or push a gate I get off and help her if I'm not already off helping.  I don't expect her to ask a random person walking past to help.

 

Likewise. My wife used to steer the boat into the lock, but once a "helpful" boat in a rush coming down, opened both paddles before she was ready and flushed her into the bottom gate. It scared her so much that she has refused to be on the boat when in a lock since.

Edited September 5 by cuthound
Clarification

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The NHS have said they will not treat fat people, or smokers, so, make 'suicide' attempts pay for their own treatment

Rubbish as usual. They treat both, and always have.

 

Boaters can be in a hurry because they've had to book a specific time for a tunnel, a lock or the Anderton lift. They may be in a rush because they have a two week window for a holiday they've looked forward to for months and been held up for a week because yet another lock has fallen to bits. They may be worried they won't get in on a visitor or town shopping mooring because ten dumped boats have been there for weeks  already. All this adds stress to what didn't ought to be stressful. If hiring, the cost has to be factored in too. Plus, people are worse tempered in bad weather, and there's been not much else this year.

Not everyone can schedule four weeks for a ten day trip, which is what I do these days, and is why I'm still fairly relaxed on the boat. But there's no doubt it's more stressy than it was.

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

One question. Why does everything has to be done fast? A slightly tongue in cheek question but genuine one. 

There are any number of ways that people enjoy canals - a slow trip away from the rush of work, bird watching and nature, the great variety of pubs and beers, the relative self-sufficiency of the the life ....

My own enjoyment has always been in learning to boat as efficiently as possible, to pass through a lock swiftly and with absolutely minimal effort. So yes, I do find it rather irritating if people are fumbling at a lock or standing chatting when I can see the gates could be opened, or cruising at such a slow speed I would have to keep going out of gear to go that slowly. In one extreme case I did feel obliged to tell a boater that it was not allowed to moor in locks as he was there for such an interminable length of time.

We were told by boatmen back in the 50s that the way to go on was to 'goo steady but keep on a gooing", and have always found that to be excellent advice.

Edited September 5 by Tam & Di

[Rob-M]

We flew down Audlem this week very efficiently helped by the guy on the boat in front who put a paddle up for us at most of the locks so my wife just had to walk down and open the top gate whilst I closed the gates on our lock using the shaft.

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Rubbish as usual.

 

NCBI.gov

 

Some doctors in England have refused to perform non-urgent coronary artery bypass surgery on smokers, requiring them to stop smoking first in order to be eligible for surgery. Surgeons have argued that non-smokers should be given preference over smokers for elective surgery because they will gain a greater benefit from it, and thus have a greater chance of complication-free survival.⁸ Underwood and Bailey state that “coronary bypass surgery should not be offered to smokers” due to the fact that smoking will increase the risk of postoperative complications, along with increasing the progression of coronary artery disease. Therefore, the benefits from the procedure will be reduced due to the resulting complications that may likely occur.⁹

[Bee]

Over regulated. Well, if you build your own boat there are a plethora of regs to do with the RCD or whatever its called in the UK, then there is the BSC and the associated survey costs, that's a start and then there is rules about where you can tie and how long for and charges for being in places a bit too long. There are probably many more things you can fall foul of but I have not owned a boat in the UK for some years. In Europe I do need a Certificate of competence - a sort of boat driving licence, and also a VHF radio and licence plus you are likely to be inspected from time to time in Belgium but it doesn't feel as though you are constantly being harassed by authority and other boaters. (Even the fishermen are (mostly) more cheerful)

(edit) Just to add, Bee was lucky to escape a fire a couple of weeks ago when the newish and very expensive boat next to us caught fire, it was a Hybrid diesel electric big boat, unoccupied for weeks, built in Britain and no doubt had every conceivable certificate and all the paperwork. The fire was electrical and something to do with batteries. It can happen to anyone but boats are far too complicated nowadays and inspections and regs do not necessarily mean a thing is saf.

Edited September 5 by Bee

[Arthur Marshall]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

NCBI.gov

 

Some doctors in England have refused to perform non-urgent coronary artery bypass surgery on smokers, requiring them to stop smoking first in order to be eligible for surgery. Surgeons have argued that non-smokers should be given preference over smokers for elective surgery because they will gain a greater benefit from it, and thus have a greater chance of complication-free survival.⁸ Underwood and Bailey state that “coronary bypass surgery should not be offered to smokers” due to the fact that smoking will increase the risk of postoperative complications, along with increasing the progression of coronary artery disease. Therefore, the benefits from the procedure will be reduced due to the resulting complications that may likely occur.⁹

Do many doctors perform by-pass surgery? I thought that was usually done by surgeons. Certainly, my ex-bass player was advised to stop smoking (which he did) and told to lose weight before he could have a heart op, because he was almost certain to die if they did it before he got a bit thinner (he was 27 stone at the time). That's a medical reason, not an ethical or moral one. It's back to victim blaming again - yes, we all know it's stupid to smoke but unfortunately it's an addiction and some people find it had, or near impossible, to stop. You can't "require" someone to stop smoking - would he have to call in at the surgery every day to prove he wasn't having a crafty fag? I'm afraid the NHS is still supposed to treat everyone the same, even if what's happened to them is their own fault.

Surgeons and doctors have argued many things, quite a lot of them ludicrous (including, many years back, advising people to smoke because it was good for their breathing), and most of them intended to make them richer for less work. But it's nice to see you quoting for the European commission stuff. which is the only reference I can find to an Underwood and Bailey. However, I seem to remember that this suggestion was rejected by almost everyone when it was first mooted, on the grounds that it was silly. Should you refuse to treat car accident cases unless they promise never to get in a car again? Obviously, if they weren't wearing a seat belt, they should just be allowed to die. That'd larn them.

[nicknorman]

8 minutes ago, Bee said:

Over regulated. Well, if you build your own boat there are a plethora of regs to do with the RCD or whatever its called in the UK, then there is the BSC and the associated survey costs, that's a start and then there is rules about where you can tie and how long for and charges for being in places a bit too long. There are probably many more things you can fall foul of but I have not owned a boat in the UK for some years. In Europe I do need a Certificate of competence - a sort of boat driving licence, and also a VHF radio and licence plus you are likely to be inspected from time to time in Belgium but it doesn't feel as though you are constantly being harassed by authority and other boaters. (Even the fishermen are (mostly) more cheerful)

We don’t feel that we are constantly being harassed by authority and other boaters. Probably because we comply with the very simple rules, and try to be considerate to other boaters. We bought a boat that was properly built and has consequently never failed a BSS.

[sigsegv]

In an attempt to steer this thread back on topic, I'll relay my thoughts, observations and comments I've heard from other boaters. Coming down the locks at Braunston a few days ago, we paired up with another boat whose name I've unfortunately forgotten. They've been boating for 40 years for her, 30 years for him. Apparently their strategy is to build a boat, live on it for a few years, then sell it on and get a new one built (with some overlap such that they can live on the old one while the new one is being built, or on the new one while the old one is being sold, wasn't quite sure of the precise nature of their strategy). Wonderful people, just the type of couple that you enjoy pairing down locks with.They also said the same thing - that people have gotten more impatient, less friendly, etc. to the extent that they were considering packing the whole lot in

 

Now as I'm still relatively green (2.5 years now I think, though I also helped my parents on their boat in the mid 00s as a grumpy teenager), my experience is obviously not as broad as theirs. But to my knowledge, I'm not sure I've ever witnessed an *actively* negative boater. I've certainly waved and said hello to other boaters to be met with a scowl and lack of eye-contact, but never anything I could describe as *actively* negative. Never any boaters telling me to slow down (though to be fair our boat's tickover is horrendously slow), any boats wanting to rush past, anyone criticising the rate at which I operate a lock... and that's not for lack of me making mistakes here and there as any new boater surely does. So I've no idea where you're all finding these grumpy boaters but I'm just glad that they don't seem to gravitate to me

Edited September 5 by sigsegv

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Certainly, my ex-bass player was advised to stop smoking (which he did) and told to lose weight before he could have a heart op,

 

So your comment "Rubbish as usual" was a total load of crap - when you actually know someone who was told to lose weight before they would operate.

 

I have nothing else to say to you.

[Jerra]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

But surely this(how a couple divide the work up) is nothing to do with anyone else. Maybe the chap had an injury or disability? Maybe the wife likes doing the locks and hates driving the boat? And anyway, you have committed a major faux pas by saying “moored up”. You moor. Or you tie up. You don’t moor up! So there.

Mrs J while at the helm spoke to a lady who had just worked the lock for her husband and asked why he didn't work it.  The reply was Oh he says steering it into and out of the lock would be too hard for me.

 

Mrs J disillusioned her and then proceeded to take our boat into the lock.

[johnmck]

We used to rather enjoy the interaction with fellow boaters when queues at locks were common. Of late though, it has become rare to queue, resulting in far less interaction.  

Boat usage has changed. Short hops and cmers becoming far more the norm, along with those who have sold bricks and morter for a lifestyle choice, often never having set foot on a boat before the move.

The times they are a changing, but twas ever so.

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

NCBI.gov

 

Some doctors in England have refused to perform non-urgent coronary artery bypass surgery on smokers, requiring them to stop smoking first in order to be eligible for surgery. Surgeons have argued that non-smokers should be given preference over smokers for elective surgery because they will gain a greater benefit from it, and thus have a greater chance of complication-free survival.⁸ Underwood and Bailey state that “coronary bypass surgery should not be offered to smokers” due to the fact that smoking will increase the risk of postoperative complications, along with increasing the progression of coronary artery disease. Therefore, the benefits from the procedure will be reduced due to the resulting complications that may likely occur.⁹

I suspect there are many other examples where patients have been advised to do something pre op to improve the outcome.  Sometimes it perhaps helps to be given a specific target, some folk are like that.

[Arthur Marshall]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have nothing else to say to you.

Thank god for that. Perhaps no more misinformation and clickbait.

[nicknorman]

Angry and impatient boaters - rarely seen in the wild because they are in front of a screen glued to CWDF.

[blackrose]

16 hours ago, NB Alnwick said:

Is it my imagination, or are our waterways populated with a higher proportion of impatient and/or angry boaters these days.

 

Ok I'll go against the consensus here. Since your post doesn't seem to be based on anything except a generalisation, I actually think it may be your imagination as I see no evidence for what you say. I only meet pleasant people on the waterways and can't remember that last time anyone said anything nasty to me while I was out on the boat. 

 

If we keep telling ourselves that people aren't as nice as they used to be and the world is getting worse then it will get worse, and paradoxically we will have been instrumental in creating that change. 

 

Here's an idea: perhaps it's time for everyone to stop moaning? 😊

Edited September 6 by blackrose

[NB Alnwick]

5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Angry and impatient boaters - rarely seen in the wild because they are in front of a screen glued to CWDF.

 

It might help if this were true! This forum could help people who need help to master the skills necessary to steer and navigate safely!

For example, many fail to realise that throwing a boat into reverse results in a loss of any precision in steering so it is better to anticipate hazards and approach them at an appropriate speed to maintain control. Similarly, when meeting a boat approaching from the opposite direction, some will push the tiller hard over to widen the passing gap with the very likely result that they place their stern in the path of the approaching craft causing the collision they were trying to avoid. These aspects of boating have been discussed many times on these forums.

[Pluto]

I do get fed up with people telling me to stop moaning, it's the only pleasure I can afford nowadays.

[blackrose]

Just now, Pluto said:

I do get fed up with people telling me to stop moaning, it's the only pleasure I can afford nowadays.

 

🤣True there is a certain pleasure to be derived from it. 

 

I actually think things are much better than they used to be and for the most part people are nicer, but I don't live in London any longer or other big cities so perhaps that's easy for me to say. 

 

I remember being a teenager in the late 70s in the suburbs of NW London and going to pubs and it seemed like a violent time. There were always fights in pubs and sometimes they got really nasty. I just don't see much of that anymore but perhaps that's just because I'm in my 60s now.

[NB Alnwick]

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Ok I'll go against the consensus here. Since your post doesn't seem to be based on anything except a generalisation, I actually think it may be your imagination as I see no evidence for what you say. I only meet pleasant people on the waterways and can't remember that last time anyone said anything nasty to me while I was out on the boat. 

 

If we keep telling ourselves that people aren't as nice as they used to be and the world is getting worse then it will get worse, and paradoxically we will have been instrumental in creating that change. 

 

Here's an idea: perhaps it's time for everyone to stop moaning? 😊

 

You are most probably correct! My initial post was prompted by an incident in Braunston Tunnel where, seeing what I took to be a nervous boater zig-zagging towards me with much beeping of the horn. My action was to slow right down and get right in to the side - almost stopping and hugging the side of the tunnel. Instead of the usual "thank you" that I have experienced on many similar occasions previously, the other boater shouted "didn't you f***ing see me, I was already in the tunnel".

[SLC]

Generally we find most people friendly and there are some interesting people about. Where we have issues are with some hire boaters who we assume are on a tight schedule or groups who start their drinking at 9.00am and crash into our boat. We pulled over and let them go.

Where my other half gets really upset is in tunnels where high speed is involved or high intensity lights taking her night vision out.

[Stroudwater1]

1 minute ago, SLC said:

Generally we find most people friendly and there are some interesting people about. Where we have issues are with some hire boaters who we assume are on a tight schedule or groups who start their drinking at 9.00am and crash into our boat. We pulled over and let them go.

Where my other half gets really upset is in tunnels where high speed is involved or high intensity lights taking her night vision out.

Strangely we find most hire boat crews that have more than one gender on board are usually most polite . It’s the relative new or very long “I’ve been boating since 1066” folk who either can be extremely nice or occasionally rude.
 

For new boaters it’s possibly due to fear or inexperience and for 1066ers it’s can be  due to arrogance that sadly exceeds their boating skills now being lost due to aging. Many of those accept this with sadness and laugh it off but some seem to get irritated and take it out on others. 

[Tony1]

 

I'm always a bit wary of complaints about how there are more of the 'wrong' sort of boaters on the cut these days. 

I would say that on the rare occasions I've seen impatience and bad temper, its mostly been older people who have been impatient (although older folks do make up most of the boating population, so there is that). 

Obviously I couldn't tell whether the impatient types had been boating for 40 years, or launched their boat a week before- but my guess is that the few impatient boaters I've seen were mostly over 60, and have probably been boating for years.  

 

[David Mack]

20 hours ago, Slim said:

One question. Why does everything has to be done fast? A slightly tongue in cheek question but genuine one. 

And the corollary to that question is "What right does the slowest boater have to impose his choice of pace on everyone else?"