Wood burning and health

[frangar]

It’s a wonder some on here don’t stumble on the moral high ground isn’t it!! Long live diesel & coal. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

There is something very restful about watching caveman television. Combine that with the supposed eco-friendliness of burning wood, with its nearer closed loop carbon cycle, then you can see why a lot of people with the means and motivation, the Grauniad reading middle classes, installed wood burning stoves. Shows what happens when a supposedly green technology is rushed in to, without taking all factors in to consideration. A similar example was governments favouring diesel cars through tax changes, due to the lower CO2 emissions per mile, without considering NOx compounds and particulates. Manufacturers invested heavily in them, then had to deal with a load of new regulations and tests on NOx and particulates. Unfortunately, at least one manufacturer dealt with that by cheating.

Even arch Guardian eco-warrior and multiple stove owner George Monbiot now says that wood stoves were a mistake.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/27/wood-burning-stove-environment-home-toxins

 

[gatekrash]

27 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Does that mean I have to cancel my Grauniad subscription? It's the only paper with a decent crossword...

I wouldn't, I'm sure it makes good fire lighting material for your stove 😀

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

What about the pellet boilers people are still getting installed. 

 

When I first heard of these I assumed someone got it wrong and they in fact mean pallet burners.

 

If you could have a little robot to cut up the pallets it could work quite well on an autofeed basis.

22 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

Even arch Guardian eco-warrior and multiple stove owner George Monbiot.

 

 

The key with this one is "Is the name pronounced as in 'yacht' or 'Yo!'.

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, phillarrow said:

 

I care about pollution and the environment.

I've made loads of small changes to my lifestyle in recent years in order to reduce my impact on the planet.

I regularly make a conscious decision to do something that will take more time and/or buy something that will cost more, if I feel/know/believe that in doing so I am making a 'better' choice in terms of my environmental impact.

But...

 

• I choose to use a log fire at home because we live in a big old house and it is FAR cheaper to heat one room than to use central heating, even with thermostatic rads turned off in other rooms.
• I choose to drive a car, because my job makes it unreasonably difficult not to have one, and because my children need/expect me to be able to ferry them around to their various schools, clubs, teams, social occasions etc.
• I choose that car to be a diesel because the electric infrastructure is currently not there to allow be to drive an electric car for my needs, and because both petrol and hybrid would be more polluting based on my driving habits.

I don't believe any of those choices makes me a hypocrite. It makes me a rational person.

 

I agree 🙂

 

Hypocrisy would be (for example) claiming to care about the climate and pollution while sitting in your centrally-heated house warming your hands at a woodburning stove that's there just because it's "cosy".

 

Or claiming to care about the environment and CO2 emissions while driving your children a short distance to school in a massive SUV -- worst of all if it's diesel, petrol is better for PM2.5 but worse for CO2, but even such an EV is much more energy-consuming than a small runabout. And all are worse than using public transport, or cycling, or walking -- if those are safe and possible, which they aren't always.

 

However I'm pretty sure few posters on CWDF fall into either of these categories... 😉

[magnetman]

My kids go to school 5 minute walk from where they live. I travel only on trains or feet.

 

Hells teeth I feel so self righteous I could almost Preach to Others !

 

I always say to the girls "The only reason to have children is to make better versions of humans than oneself". This is in fact the only reason to procreate. There is no other aim.

 

Obviosuly in my case this is incredibly difficult as I am a bit of a Mary Poppins when it comes to being Perfect.  However they can do even better for which I am endlessely proud and greatful.

 

The World needs to have a brand of higher grade people. If this can be achieved without harm then it will be a Good Thing.

 

I've done my bit so now it is time to retire to the country estate and burn endless wood on the fire to see how many people I can take out with the pm2.4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tonka]

Oh well good job we live in a rural area and have a large barn to store animal dung in. Hopefully it will be ready to burn in about 3 months time

Edited December 15, 2023 by Tonka
Spelling

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

I was taking the ,.,..,

Wonder if it works?

Maybe it should be compulsory 

 

I know you were but I thought I'd have a quick Google.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, gatekrash said:

I wouldn't, I'm sure it makes good fire lighting material for your stove 😀

It certainly does, and like a good ecolefty with a woodburner, I process the rest of the newspaper into briquettes, which I burn on the stove. Neat, huh? Except I'm not really an ecolefty, just an old fart who likes gadgets.

[Ex Brummie]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

What about the pellet boilers people are still getting installed. 

There was someone on a Facebook group talking about having one fitted to a narrowboat 

Do they realise they would need a full butty to store the pellets?

ttps://woodstovefilter.co.uk/- Strewth, £2k plus vat!!!!! and if they are self cleaning and fitted to the top of the flue, then where does all the particulate discharge go?

[magnetman]

A major flaw with compressed sawdust products is that if they get damp they turn into inedible porridge.

 

[billh]

Drax power station is a wood burner.

8000 tonnes a day mostly brought from the US of A. Timber is trucked to a processing plant, made into pellets, railed to a port (Galveston?) put in a ship, brought to UK  then railed to Drax. As far as I know, all the transport is diesel powered. More CO2 emissions than when it was coal fired and when a major supplying  colliery  was within sight  of said power station. My Squirrel ,plus everybody else's ,won't ever come near those emission levels even if  we burn wet wood retrieved from the canal. Yet we need Drax for when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.

[Rincewind]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

A major flaw with compressed sawdust products is that if they get damp they turn into inedible porridge.

 

Now you have stirred my curiosity......... Just how do you know its inedible?🤣

 

(Perhaps try using full fat milk and a spoonful of sugar) - let us know how you get on. 😁

[Stroudwater1]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

 

The key with this one is "Is the name pronounced as in 'yacht' or 'Yo!'.

 

 

Monbiot? It’s Yo, a silent T  as in Huguenot. I believe it’s an anagram, or rather a “mixogram” of Beaumont, to avoid identification as they fled France during the long Protestant persecution and final near elimination in the 15-1700s. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenots

 

 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

I always say to the girls "The only reason to have children is to make better versions of humans than oneself". This is in fact the only reason to procreate. There is no other aim.

 

Not entirely correct. Vast numbers of people try to procreate plentifully in order to have someone to look after them in their dotage. Especially in poorer countries where there is no NHS, social security etc. 

[Tonka]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Not entirely correct. Vast numbers of people try to procreate plentifully in order to have someone to look after them in their dotage. Especially in poorer countries where there is no NHS, social security etc. 

And lot of those poorer countries are Catholic who tell you to have loads of kids

UNILAD TECH on Facebook have this text on it

Installing a wood burner could become a necessity with how expensive energy is becoming!🏠

[mrsmelly]

10 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Not entirely correct. Vast numbers of people try to procreate plentifully in order to have someone to look after them in their dotage. Especially in poorer countries where there is no NHS, social security etc. 

A bit like Bradford then? 

[peterboat]

20 hours ago, magnetman said:

Maybe one could suggest that a parent is being irresponsible bringing up a child 30 metres away from the South Circular road which is a terrifically busy highway.

 

This particular story sounds a bit like pollution from cars not pollution from wood burners.

 

Move to Margate and the pollution level will be a lot lower.

 

 

It was, it's one of the reasons we have ULEZs all over now

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

It was, it's one of the reasons we have ULEZs all over now

No it is not

 

So if you turn up in a non ulez car they will let you in along as you pay £12.50

If what you said was true they wouldn't let you in

[magnetman]

"Expanding the Ulez London-wide will bring cleaner air to five million more Londoners, according to the mayor. It’s also estimated that the expansion will result in a reduction of NOx emissions from cars in outer London of nearly 10%, as well as a nearly 16% reduction in PM_2.5 particulate emissions, leading to a 1.5% overall reduction in PM_2.5 emissions London-wide."

 

 

That doesn't seem a lot ! 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

No it is not

 

So if you turn up in a non ulez car they will let you in along as you pay £12.50

If what you said was true they wouldn't let you in

Actually you are totally wrong, client earth took the government to court twice about pollution from cars over the legal limits, internet second case in the supreme court, the government was instructed that they had to do something about it, so they did. Hence locally controlled ULEZS by law! In Sheffield it has reduced pollution 2/3rd of the most polluting commercial vehicles have stopped driving through the ULEZ. Like it or lump it, its working 

[Mike Todd]

19 hours ago, IanD said:

If they genuinely haven't got an alternative -- say, some boaters -- then there's nothing hypocritical about having a stove and also being concerned about the climate and pollution.

 

If the stove is a "lifestyle choice" -- and that is the reason for the big increase in woodburners in recent years, having a "cosy wood fire" in a town house or flat -- then it is rather hypocritical for them to carry on using it while claiming to be concerned about pollution and the environment.

There is pretty much always an alternative, even on a boat - diesel, gas or whatever. What there is not is a heat source that is supposedly better for the climate ie electricity. What we can say for certain is that heating by hooking up to a mains bollard diminishes the impact of a moored boat on adjacent 'shiny' houses. Is that a good thing?

[magnetman]

Its bloody expensive to heat using electricity. 

 

25p per kWh. Say you want 4kWh to be equivalent to a modest fire thats £1 per hour. 

(A level maths)

Also because of the shape and position of a boat it is wise to have positive air movement. A fire generates a low level draught which is very desirable. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Its bloody expensive to heat using electricity. 

 

25p per kWh. Say you want 4kWh to be equivalent to a modest fire thats £1 per hour. 

 

But once the boat is 'up to temperature' you only need to replace the losses. A well insulated boat tends to retain its heat quite well.

 

This is the reason that my Eberspacher starts off on "high", once the boat reaches the preset temperature it drops to 'low', and even goes into standby for a time, then kicks back in as the temperature falls.

 

We also use Oil filled radiators when on the mooringa and cheap 'leccy is available - this works exactly the same, using the thermostats. They spend more time 'off' than 'on'

 

It your 4Kw electric fire is on continuoulsy then you have a bigger proble that needs sorting out.

[magnetman]

It depends on boat size. I can heat my boat with a 750w fan heater on a thermostat. We don't get cheap electric its always the same cost. 

 

I think a reasonably large narrow boat is going to need a bit of heating. 

 

But yes insulation is of key importance. You also want air in the boat.