Helmsman Courses

[Vasco826]

My wife and I are planning to move to semi-retirement and having spent many happy days on the cut in rented boats are looking to buy our own NB early next year with the plan to spend as much time afloat as possible. Talking to a recent boat-purchaser they said that their Insurance company insisted they attended a Helmsman Course before they would insure them - I've been searching this forum and elsewhere but cannot find guidance about where to do such a course - the RYA site seems unable to load locations and I cannot find any others, not necessarily in the Midlands but preferable. 

 

I would welcome any guidance or recommendations please.  Of note, I am reasonably experienced and quite capable at the helm, but we do also need my wife to be able to take the helm since she cannot always manage the locks on her own

 

Many thanks for your time

 

Doug

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Welcome to the forum. If you've been hiring a lot without incident, there is little extra a bit of paper from a course will give you. Was this other boater talking about an inland, or sea going boat insurers? I've not heard about this requirement before. If it was for an inland boat, can you name and shame the company? Thousands of hirers go out on boats for the first time each year with minimal instruction.

There are  number of RYA inland course providers. Not been on one, so can't recommend a particular instructor, but I'm sure some one here can.

To add: I didn't have a problem searching the RYA site for the inland helmsman course. Here's a direct link to a search on their site for providers centred around Brum.

https://www.rya.org.uk/wheres-my-nearest/venues?lat=52.48624299999999&lng=-1.890401&locationSearch=Birmingham&useBrowserLocation=false&courses=923833

 

[magnetman]

It sounds like this might be full insurance for a sea going boat. 

 

I've never heard it suggested before that you need a certificate to get ordinary UK canal boat insurance. 

 

It seems odd and perhaps a minor misunderstanding. 

[robtheplod]

I've never had to have a helmsman course to get our narrowboat insurance.... maybe shop around?  not saying they are not a good idea, just never seen it as a condition before..

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It sounds like this might be full insurance for a sea going boat. 

 

In 40+ years of owning 'sea-going' boats I have never once been asked for evidence of a 'helmsmans certificate'.

 

The proposal forms generally ask what qualifications to have (options go from 'none' to the world wide recognised 'Yachtmaster Ocean'), I presume that the higher your level of competance the better rate you get.

[haggis]

I am sure I read on here a while ago that when someone tried to insure their new boat the insurance company insisted they took a Helmsmans course.  They were I think new to canal boating. 

I think our insurance company asked us what experience we had as when we get our renewal notices they include that information. 

[Crewcut]

Echo the above, my mate who recently retired & bought one had never narrowboated before & found the helmsman's course very useful but for you a diesel engine maintenance course would be far more useful if you're not au fait with them (and assuming your boat's not going to be electric 😁). Instructors vary a lot though so look for a recommendation rather than booking at random. Good luck with it all...👍

[Quattrodave]

A decent instructor may be able to teach you a few tips and tricks but I fear, as others have said, you may well have picked most of it up.

Ask at your local Sea Cadets Unit, most of not all will have RYA instructors that are happy to do training for donations to the Sea Cadets.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Quattrodave

[howardang]

1 minute ago, Crewcut said:

Echo the above, my mate who recently retired & bought one had never narrowboated before & found the helmsman's course very useful but for you a diesel engine maintenance course would be far more useful if you're not au fait with them (and assuming your boat's not going to be electric 😁). Instructors vary a lot though so look for a recommendation rather than booking at random. Good luck with it all...👍

I agree about the engine maintenance course. As far as the Helmsman's course,  the insurance companies I have dealt with in previous years have never requested one but rather (similar Haggis above) have asked that at least one crewmember has sufficient experience to manage the boat safely. I am sure that IWHC  it is better than nothing for a complete beginner and you will certainly learn some basics, but for anyone who has been boating for a number of years I think  they have limited value. Certainly in a one or two day course there is a limit to what can be taught  and I suspect from what I have seen in practise  that courses can vary in standard from provider to provider. If a newcomer does decide going down that route fair enough but I would only say that it is not a certificate of competency and it marks the beginning of a learning experience rather than the culmination. 🙂  

 

Howard

[Stroudwater1]

Just now, Quattrodave said:

A decent instructor may be able to teach you a few tips and tricks but I fear, as others have said, you may well have picked most of it up.

Ask at your local Sea Cadets most of not all will have RYA instructors that are happy to do training for donations to the Sea Cadets.

I don’t fear that the OP has picked most of it up -I’m damn glad 😉. Some boaters with zero experience are a danger . Then again some with lots are too 😊 

 

I’ve not heard of this either. Search for insurer recommendations on the forum, there’s a couple I’m sure don’t ask for this. 

Unless the helmsman course is on your own boat (they often are?) it’s not too useful either as each boat can differ a lot. One hire boat I had was a fight with the tiller the whole way. Never had that before or since and I suspect it had recently had a near cilling experience? 

[SLC]

Being in a similar situation though I do not recall it being an insurance requirement, we used Narrowboat Skills Center and the 2 day course was beneficial. Well worth it. I did try to get on to the maintenance course but there was a long waiting time and so I never did.

We used our own boat! I would recommend this if possible.

Edited October 21, 2023 by SLC
Added after thought

[MrsM]

We had exactly the same as Haggis and Howard described - we were asked what handling experience we had (my husband had loads). We started with Towergate insurance then switched to Craftinsure from year 2 onwards. If only one of you has done most of the steering when hiring then the other might find the Helmsman course gives them a bit of confidence. I'm going to be honest and say it took me a good long time to feel completely comfortable steering our boat.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, haggis said:

I am sure I read on here a while ago that when someone tried to insure their new boat the insurance company insisted they took a Helmsmans course.  They were I think new to canal boating. 

I think our insurance company asked us what experience we had as when we get our renewal notices they include that information. 

That is correct

[Alway Swilby]

When we insured with Collidge & Partners we got a 10% discount for having a RYA inland waterways helmsman certificate. I found the course useful and learned some tricks. My partner got a lot of confidence from doing the course. We used Bear Boating near Leeds. You can use your own boat or one of their hire boats. Well worth doing but not particularly for the 10% discount.

[Iain_S]

2 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

(snip). One hire boat I had was a fight with the tiller the whole way. Never had that before or since and I suspect it had recently had a near cilling experience? 

Assuming it was fighting, rather than just stiff, I've seen a couple like that, including Kelpie when we got her. Rudder was overbalanced, so that the pressure needed was the opposite of what was expected. As soon as the tiller moved, it wanted to go to full lock. First time I came across this, it took a surprising amount of time to work out what was going on.

 

(We took a couple of inches off the leading edge of Kelpie's rudder, which solved it)

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Assuming it was fighting, rather than just stiff, I've seen a couple like that, including Kelpie when we got her. Rudder was overbalanced, so that the pressure needed was the opposite of what was expected. As soon as the tiller moved, it wanted to go to full lock. First time I came across this, it took a surprising amount of time to work out what was going on.

 

(We took a couple of inches off the leading edge of Kelpie's rudder, which solved it)

Waterwitch was like that as well, 

[Vasco826]

Thank you so much for all the really helpful replies to my question. The people who said that their Insurer insisted upon them doing a course were complete novices I think - I was slightly surprised to find that they had bought the boat, had it delivered to a mooring and yet had never driven it or any other NB before - maybe the Insurer was also surprised!

On the basis that I have pretty good level of competancy I may just focus on getting my better half on a course, or next time out get her to take the helm as much as possible.  We hope to be looking seriously for a boat next Spring so time consider best options based upon help and ideas above - thank you once again to all.

 

This was my first post on this forum and really impressed with the helpful advice, looks like I'll be reading loads on the various topics here!  Doug

 

[Cheshire cat]

Some years ago I tried to book my wife on a course. The course provider was adamant that I should go along as well so that we would both be singing from the same song sheet. It was a very enjoyable day and yes there was things to learn despit having more than fifteen years experience. 

 

One of the benefits of us both being there was we could agree on how we would work together to negotiate locks. Of course, that included agreeing on the sign language that Nick Norman likes to ridicule.

[Richard T]

I did a course on Centenary narrowboat and found it very good. They are a charity and based at Clifton Cruisers Rugby. https://centenarynarrowboat.weebly.com/

[ditchcrawler]

We did ours in France with @Tam & Di and had a great time.

[Vasco826]

35 minutes ago, Richard T said:

I did a course on Centenary narrowboat and found it very good. They are a charity and based at Clifton Cruisers Rugby. https://centenarynarrowboat.weebly.com/

Many thanks Richard - just had a look at what they offer and looks like what we're after

[Momac]

9 hours ago, Vasco826 said:

My wife and I are planning to move to semi-retirement and having spent many happy days on the cut in rented boats are looking to buy our own NB early next year with the plan to spend as much time afloat as possible. Talking to a recent boat-purchaser they said that their Insurance company insisted they attended a Helmsman Course before they would insure them - I've been searching this forum and elsewhere but cannot find guidance about where to do such a course - the RYA site seems unable to load locations and I cannot find any others, not necessarily in the Midlands but preferable. 

 

I would welcome any guidance or recommendations please.  Of note, I am reasonably experienced and quite capable at the helm, but we do also need my wife to be able to take the helm since she cannot always manage the locks on her own

 

Many thanks for your time

 

Doug

I found the RYA site not too difficult but not the best 

It came up with the following examples

https://littleburytraining.com/

https://nbsc.org.uk/

 

 

[magnetman]

I can recommend Bisham Abbey for these things. Marlow on the Thames. 

 

I did the ICC about ten yars ago on their Le Coq barge. I already had a lot of inland experience single handing my own boats but it was interesting to see it from a different angle. 

Never helmed a boat in De La France. There was a plan to go but never did it. 

I Prefer Englandland really overall despite the woman and kids being French. 

 

 

 

[dmr]

Have never heard of insurers asking for a certificate, but years ago we did the 2 day course with T.R. Boat handling. Dunno if he still does it but it was really good. Even though I had some boating (sailing) experience I still learnt a lot of stuff that would have taken ages to work out, like reversing techniques. He also tried to teach us about beer drinking but we knew that stuff already 😀

[Richard T]

Came across a very cocky instructor at Calcutt in September, he was teaching on a trad boat. I was talking to a woman who was off another  boat that was waiting to go into the lock when he started sounding off about inexperienced hire boaters. He was firmly put in his place by the woman who pointed out that she was off the waiting boat whch was a hire one and that she and her partner were very experienced boaters who chose to use hire boats as a way of enjoying the canals!! I had a good laugh about this. It might have taught him to engage brain before sounding off but somehow I doubt it.