Help understanding energy systems

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

Thanks all, it’s been recommended a few times to take a walk down the canal path to have a look at some boats and maybe chat to some people. My local canal is the Basingstoke and there’s not many boats on there so my next nearest is the Kennet & Avon which is where I would likely be based. Anyone know any hotspots between Newbury and Reading where I’m likely to find some boaters?

Or maybe some members on here are local and wouldn’t mind me taking a look at their boat?

 

Probably not a very good area for meeting general boaters, there will be some travelling, but many will be CCers or possibly/probably CMers.CC those who agree with CaRT that they will never overstay and keep moving about the system. CM, the same as a CCer, but have no intention of obeying the maximum mooring time rules. The K&A seems to have more than its fair share of them. You would probably do better around Banbury.

 

Try talking to the boaters moored up on the park behind Camp Hopson and opposite the wharf.

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Anyone know any hotspots between Newbury and Reading where I’m likely to find some boaters?

 

I'd suggest visiting Aldermaston lock and wharf. Always loads of boaters around there, and easy parking too.

 

AND a reasonable pub! 

 

 

(Assuming no-one knocked it down at the weekend.)

 

 

[Eeyore]

21 hours ago, Mr.T said:

 And no I don’t have much experience on narrowboats at all, I’m ex navy but that probably doesn’t help 🙂

The closest RN vessel to a narrowboat would be an aircraft carrier...........if you turned the aircraft carrier upside down. And yes, I've worked on both 😇 

[Alan de Enfield]

49 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

my next nearest is the Kennet & Avon which is where I would likely be based. Anyone know any hotspots between Newbury and Reading where I’m likely to find some boaters?

 

O'dear another boat on the K&A.

 

It is the most actively policed (enforced) bit of water in the Uk. There are very few boaters but a lot of CMers (Constant moorers who do not follow the rules and then complain when they get enforcement notices saying their boat will be siezed.

 

This video is from 10 year ago and it has got worse since.

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

O'dear another boat on the K&A.

 

It is the most actively policed (enforced) bit of water in the Uk.

 

I beg to differ. I live 100yds from the K&A and the same bunch of boats has been on the 48 hour VMs here for a month at least. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I beg to differ. I live 100yds from the K&A and the same bunch of boats has been on the 48 hour VMs here for a month at least. 

 

 

 

 

Which just goes to show how badly enforced the rest are !

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Are you in pain?  Why so grumpy today?

I am suffering of late, the tumors are getting out of control I think, radiation is not doing what it should. I feel the hospice is getting closer.

 

Sorry for the caustic remarks to all, sometimes I lose patience with these new boaters who only want the answers that they agree with.

[Slim]

22 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes covering the roof is a bad idea in my opinion. It really depends on how you cruise. If you've got crew and you don't use your roof in locks then fine, cover the roof. As a single hander access to the roof is essential for me.

And me, hence I never had solar,  I had a built in 4kva diesel generator.

 

[Bod]

4 hours ago, Mr.T said:

I’m definitely concerned with the loo situation. I like the idea of composting but that’s not ok anymore so as I’ve been told earlier the other options are cassette or pump out?

I didn’t realise there would be an issue with fresh water though. So from what you’ve said am I right in assuming that the water from canal water point is not drinkable and has to be filtered?
I’m open to a solid fuel stove but the storage of logs/coal puts me off slightly. Diesel stoves sounded abit easier and can be left on without having to do anything to it?

Ok water.

Your boat will have a water tank, with a capacity of at least 600 litres, more is better.  This tank will supply all water needs for the boat washing, clothes, dishes and self.

The tank will need refilling from waterside "water points", a mains fed tap, often locked behind a small door, unlocked by a "Water-mate" key brought from C&RT.

Filling is done by a hose pipe kept on the boat, either garden or food-safe types are available.

Canal water has duck poo, fish poo, mud, and god knows what else in it, filtering will only remove the bigger lumps.  This water is best avoided like the plague.

Toilet systems.

Small tank = cassette system.  small tank sits under the pan, needs emptying, by carrying to an "Elsan point" to be emptied, these points are around the canal system and are normally free to use.

Large tank = pump-out system, this has a large tank, often under the main bed, the pan contents are pumped into this tank, which is emptied by a Pump-out machine at most marinas, and is a paid for service.

The frequency of emptying is totally down to how often use is made of the loo!

Be aware that the chosen system has to be known before the build commences, as the large tank may have to be put in place before the roof is constructed.

Mr T, having a boat constructed to your liking, does need alot of fore thought, and knowledge, some of which can come from the builder, but an input from yourself has to be made.  You would have to try very hard to to make an original mistake, it's all been done before, often by folk on here, who are trying to guide you from their experiences.

 

Bod.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Bod

[LadyG]

As a singlehandeder I usually handle the boat in locks with a long centreline. I use the lock ladders and usually manage to get alongside, if not I scramble along the gunwales which have non slip surface etc. 

Maybe in very short narrow locks one has to use the roof. I don't know. I could not manage that, but fitter people do it all the time.

I don't want the centreline to catch on the solar panels, so I dont have the roof covered with rigid panels.

I've seen electric boats with flexible panels attached to the roof, still at the early adopter stage imho.

Edited August 10, 2023 by LadyG

[Mr.T]

11 minutes ago, Bod said:

Ok water.

Your boat will have a water tank, with a capacity of at least 600 litres, more is better.  This tank will supply all water needs for the boat washing, clothes, dishes and self.

The tank will need refilling from waterside "water points", a mains fed tap, often locked behind a small door, unlocked by a "Water-mate" key brought from C&RT.

Filling is done by a hose pipe kept on the boat, either garden or food-safe types are available.

Canal water has duck poo, fish poo, mud, and god knows what else in it, filtering will only remove the bigger lumps.  This water is best avoided like the plague.

Toilet systems.

Small tank = cassette system.  small tank sits under the pan, needs emptying, by carrying to an "Elsan point" to be emptied, these points are around the canal system and are normally free to use.

Large tank = pump-out system, this has a large tank, often under the main bed, the pan contents are pumped into this tank, which is emptied by a Pump-out machine at most marinas, and is a paid for service.

The frequency of emptying is totally down to how often use is made of the loo!

Be aware that the chosen system has to be known before the build commences, as the large tank may have to be put in place before the roof is constructed.

Mr T, having a boat constructed to your liking, does need alot of fore thought, and knowledge, some of which can come from the builder, but an input from yourself has to be made.  You would have to try very hard to to make an original mistake, it's all been done before, often by folk on here, who are trying to guide you from their experiences.

 

Bod.

Many thanks that’s very helpful. I kind of get the feeling that some people think I’m not taking on board what you lot are saying. I’ve learned alot since yesterday and you’ve given me alot more to think about so thanks very much. 

[Mr.T]

34 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I am suffering of late, the tumors are getting out of control I think, radiation is not doing what it should. I feel the hospice is getting closer.

 

Sorry for the caustic remarks to all, sometimes I lose patience with these new boaters who only want the answers that they agree with.

I know how you feel, I sometimes lose patience with people who like to give it out but can’t take it 😉 

[Tony1]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

 

I want to keep the roof clear to allow for centreline rope handling.

 

 

I thought this too, which is why I only got 1400 watts of panels- when I could probably have fitted almost 2kw. 

But it turned out that the 5 or 6ft of free space around the centre roof ring thingy is really useful for storing coal- I can stack them two high and get ten bags up there, plus a couple in the cratch. 

I try my best to keep the two centre lines running through the fairleads that are fixed on the roof sides, and so the lines dont usually get fouled by stuff on the roof.

But fairleads are of course open at the top as we know, so in locks etc the centre ropes can easily come out of their fairleads when  handled from high above, and they do occasionally drag one of the coal bags around.

So if I did have panels there, they would sometimes get fouled with the centre line no matter what I do (unless I fitted those semi flexible panels that don't need mounting frames).  But I wouldn't put panels there anyway- the space is needed for coal. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I thought this too, which is why I only got 1400 watts of panels- when I could probably have fitted almost 2kw. 

But it turned out that the 5 or 6ft of free space around the centre roof ring thingy is really useful for storing coal- I can stack them two high and get ten bags up there, plus a couple in the cratch. 

I try my best to keep the two centre lines running through the fairleads that are fixed on the roof sides, and so the lines dont usually get fouled by stuff on the roof.

But fairleads are of course open at the top as we know, so in locks etc the centre ropes can easily come out of their fairleads when  handled from high above, and they do occasionally drag one of the coal bags around.

So if I did have panels there, they would sometimes get fouled with the centre line no matter what I do (unless I fitted those semi flexible panels that don't need mounting frames).  But I wouldn't put panels there anyway- the space is needed for coal. 

 

 

I have two eyes and two centre lines , one running down each side of the roof, no fairleads to ping off under strain

[blackrose]

25 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have two eyes and two centre lines , one running down each side of the roof, no fairleads to ping off under strain

 

Fairleads just fixed with a couple of brass screws are a bad idea and you wouldn't want to put much strain on them. My fairleads are large and attached with M10 screws. Because the integral steel rail is only 3mm thick I filled a small area of the rail with a two part construction filler - the stuff they pump into holes they've drilled into brick walls to mount big bolts into. So my fairleads can take plenty of strain but they're permanent and can't be removed. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by blackrose

[Tony1]

19 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have two eyes and two centre lines , one running down each side of the roof, no fairleads to ping off under strain

 

I do use two centre lines, but I do like the sound of having an eye on each side of the roof. 

I dont have a rail, but rather a ridge at each side, so I would want eyes welding on I think. 

Certainly sounds easier to use than fairleads. 

Maybe its time to learn how to do simple welding jobs....

 

[cuthound]

5 hours ago, Mr.T said:

I’m definitely concerned with the loo situation. I like the idea of composting but that’s not ok anymore so as I’ve been told earlier the other options are cassette or pump out?

I didn’t realise there would be an issue with fresh water though. So from what you’ve said am I right in assuming that the water from canal water point is not drinkable and has to be filtered?
I’m open to a solid fuel stove but the storage of logs/coal puts me off slightly. Diesel stoves sounded abit easier and can be left on without having to do anything to it?

 

Diesel drip feed stoves are indeed very convenient, controllable, clean and don't require you to lug bags of coal about but are more expensive to run.

 

My boat came with one. They require occasional cleaning, maintenance and adjustment. I have yet to find any boatyard that can maintain or adjust them, so if you do get one be prepared to maintain and adjust it yourself. It is a steep learning curve but all of the information you need can be found on this site and the Refleks Owners Facebook page (I don't have a Refleks but the principles and components are similar or identical).

[blackrose]

10 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I do use two centre lines, but I do like the sound of having an eye on each side of the roof. 

I dont have a rail, but rather a ridge at each side, so I would want eyes welding on I think. 

Certainly sounds easier to use than fairleads. 

Maybe its time to learn how to do simple welding jobs....

 

 

Don't weld your eyes onto the integral rail. The steel is too thin and will deform under any strain - probably from the welding too. 

 

If you weld the eyes onto the roof ideally you'd cut a hole for the thread of the eye and fit a small spreader plate or a very large washer underneath and a nut. Then weld the eyes on.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

 

I thought this too, which is why I only got 1400 watts of panels- when I could probably have fitted almost 2kw. 

But it turned out that the 5 or 6ft of free space around the centre roof ring thingy is really useful for storing coal- I can stack them two high and get ten bags up there, plus a couple in the cratch. 

I try my best to keep the two centre lines running through the fairleads that are fixed on the roof sides, and so the lines dont usually get fouled by stuff on the roof.

But fairleads are of course open at the top as we know, so in locks etc the centre ropes can easily come out of their fairleads when  handled from high above, and they do occasionally drag one of the coal bags around.

So if I did have panels there, they would sometimes get fouled with the centre line no matter what I do (unless I fitted those semi flexible panels that don't need mounting frames).  But I wouldn't put panels there anyway- the space is needed for coal. 

 

 

I wouldn't put bags of coal on my roof.

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I wouldn't put bags of coal on my roof.

 

I do worry a bit about stability with so much weight up there, but to avoid running out I like to keep a stock of at least 6 bags, and I tend to buy 10 at a time when the fuel boat passes. 

I only cruise maybe twice a week, so I find it easier to get lots of coal when I can, and then I can avoid doing cruises on very cold days specifically to buy coal.

That said, I was very impressed when I was passed at Hurleston last Autumn by a liveaboard couple who only had one or two bags of coal aboard. When I asked them why so little, they said they passed a place selling coal every few days, so they saw no need to stock up. 

 

[TheBiscuits]

11 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 a liveaboard couple who only had one or two bags of coal aboard. When I asked them why so little, they said they passed a place selling coal every few days, so they saw no need to stock up. 

 

They've not been frozen in yet then ...

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by TheBiscuits
clarity

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Mr.T said:

I know how you feel, I sometimes lose patience with people who like to give it out but can’t take it 😉 

I think that as we get older we get more impatient, ie short tempered . 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Bod said:

Large tank = pump-out system, this has a large tank, often under the main bed, the pan contents are pumped into this tank, which is emptied by a Pump-out machine at most marinas, and is a paid for service.

The frequency of emptying is totally down to how often use is made of the loo!

And the type of loo fitted. Older boats tended to have a 'dump through' loo. The loo pan is mounted on top of the tank, and there is a foot operated lever which opens a valve in the bottom to allow the contents to fall into the tank and at the same time opens a flush valve which puts fresh water into the pan. The main alternative is a macerator toilet. The toilet unit has a device on the outlet which macerates the waste and pumps it through pipes to the tank. So the layout is much more flexible as the loo doesn't have to be close to the tank. But to macerate the waste to a condition that it can be pumped some distance, much more water is used. So you will need to pump out the loo tank and refill the main water tank more frequently compared to having a dump through.  Other factors to consider are that dump through toilets can sometimes be smelly, as you are opening directly into the waste tank every time you flush. But they are simple and reliable. Macerator toilets are more like a domestic toilet to use, but if you or any of your guests puts anything down the pan other than pee, poo and cheap paper (don't get the strong-when-wet stuff), you will soon become acquainted with how to unblock your macerator mechanism.

[ditchcrawler]

40 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I wouldn't put bags of coal on my roof.

Not every body has a bath on their boat 🤣

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not every body has a bath on their boat 🤣

I have . But it’s full of spuds.😜