Help understanding energy systems

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

We haven't even got into the fact that lavatory waste in houses goes downwards whereas in boats it must at some time go upwards. Gravity is a real bummer. 

Hopefully not whilst you are doing the times crossword. 

[Mr.T]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes covering the roof is a bad idea in my opinion. It really depends on how you cruise. If you've got crew and you don't use your roof in locks then fine, cover the roof. As a single hander access to the roof is essential for me.

I will be a single hander too. Could you give abit more detail on why access to the roof is important? Are you physically climbing on top? Or just using the hand rails?

[blackrose]

27 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

Thanks, so how do you live 80% off grid in the winter? Surely it’s not just from your solar?

 

Yes it's just from the panels. Last winter was the first one for me with solar and perhaps it wasn't a typical winter with lots of cold sunny days which is great for solar charging. 

 

Part of the answer is a good solar setup. Running the panels in series and matching the panels with the controller, good thick cable from controller to batteries, not having so many Ah of batteries that you can't possibly charge them fully and also of course reducing your power consumption. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, Mr.T said:

I will be a single hander too. Could you give abit more detail on why access to the roof is important? Are you physically climbing on top? Or just using the hand rails?

Being able to climb on to the roof makes access to lock ladders a lot easier when single handing.

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat. Early in the thread it was suggested you buy second hand and live/use it for a year or two before even considering buying new. This is good advice.

[Mr.T]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The point surely must be that living on a boat 'off grid' is never going to be in any way remotely similar to living in a house or apartment. There just isn't a comparison. You can't have the same lifestyle. 

 

We haven't even got into the fact that lavatory waste in houses goes downwards whereas in boats it must at some time go upwards. Gravity is a real bummer. 

 

Electric and gas is like a walk in the park on a nice day compared with the lavatory ! 

Completely understand it’s different, I guess I’m just trying to understand how the whole energy set up works through winter especially. And if there are any better/more efficient ways of doing it than I suggested originally.

[blackrose]

1 minute ago, Mr.T said:

I will be a single hander too. Could you give abit more detail on why access to the roof is important? Are you physically climbing on top? Or just using the hand rails?

 

Climbing up onto the roof to get to the ladder and out of locks going uphill and doing the opposite going downhill. I often jump but it's frowned upon and dangerous. My boat is wide so I have plenty of landing area. Lock ladders aren't always where you might want them at the stern/helm 

[system 4-50]

2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

 

Ok I'm shouting, but your questions show that this needs to be said!

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Yes it's just from the panels. Last winter was the first one for me with solar and perhaps it wasn't a typical winter with lots of cold sunny days which is great for solar charging. 

Yes but your boat is a widebeam? So you can have more panels than a narrowboat?  I'm sure that you've said all this but it can easily be missed.

[blackrose]

37 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

It isn't really possible, without running the engine, or a generator to make up the solar short fall. 

 

Well I did it last winter without that much short fall - but as you say that short fall still had to be made up, in my case with shore power.

3 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Yes but your boat is a widebeam? So you can have more panels than a narrowboat?  I'm sure that you've said all this but it can easily be missed.

 

As I said, I have 910w. It's not much more than many narrow boats.

 

I could have more panels of course, but as I also said, I don't want to cover the roof.

Edited August 9, 2023 by blackrose

[magnetman]

In winter the diesel man is your friend. 

 

 

[Mr.T]

10 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Being able to climb on to the roof makes access to lock ladders a lot easier when single handing.

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat. Early in the thread it was suggested you buy second hand and live/use it for a year or two before even considering buying new. This is good advice.

Many thanks. I will definitely do some boating before buying that’s for sure. I’ll be hiring a boat for a couple of weeks and maybe more if I think its needed. I’ll also do some helmsman training. But buying second hand is not the route I want to go down, maybe I’ll come to regret that or maybe I’ll change my mind after hiring a boat. 

[Mr.T]

8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

You really need to do some boating before speccing a boat!

 

Ok I'm shouting, but your questions show that this needs to be said!

Yes but your boat is a widebeam? So you can have more panels than a narrowboat?  I'm sure that you've said all this but it can easily be missed.

Noted. Thanks 🙂

 

[magnetman]

Have you planned for the lavatory? 

 

If there are two of you it gets even more awkward. 

 

Getting this right is when you hit the suite spot. 

[Mr.T]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Have you planned for the lavatory? 

 

If there are two of you it gets even more awkward. 

 

Getting this right is when you hit the suite spot. 

I had planned for a composting loo but I’ve heard that the CRT don’t want people doing that anymore. Someone said about an incinerator the other day which sounded interesting. But no I haven’t decided on the loo yet, what would be your advice?

[dmr]

31 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes covering the roof is a bad idea in my opinion. It really depends on how you cruise. If you've got crew and you don't use your roof in locks then fine, cover the roof. As a single hander access to the roof is essential for me.

Even with crew there will be times when things go wrong and you will have to go down a lock ladder and walk along the roof to the back of the boat, and sometimes it will be very desirable to walk to the front of the boat too without going through the boat. It is not viable to walk along the gunnel in a tight narrow lock.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, Mr.T said:

I had planned for a composting loo but I’ve heard that the CRT don’t want people doing that anymore. Someone said about an incinerator the other day which sounded interesting. But no I haven’t decided on the loo yet, what would be your advice?

Incinerating loos are totally impractical on boats. There are a number of threads on them. Best bet is to pick a side in the Cassette vs Pump Out holy war.

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Incinerating loos are totally impractical on boats. There are a number of threads on them. Best bet is to pick a side in the Cassette vs Pump Out holy war.

 

Incineration does work if you use a wok lined with ash and light the fire every morning. I do this but my fire is unusual. 

[dmr]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Incinerating loos are totally impractical on boats. There are a number of threads on them. Best bet is to pick a side in the Cassette vs Pump Out holy war.

 

Nah, a few solar panels and a lithium battery and there will be an endless supply of electricity so even more appliances will be needed to save it from going to waste. I have heard reports of Lithium batteries actually swelling up due to a build up of unused electrons inside them.

[magnetman]

 

Don't use a wok not lined with ash. 

 

Some people may baulk at the idea of transferring the solids to the fire using a bent soup ladle. 

 

 

 

 

I think the proper cinderella loos (good name) are firstly shockingly expensive and secondly use shed loads of electric. 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by magnetman

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Mr.T said:

Hi all. I’m at the early stages of planning for a new narrowboat to live aboard as a continuous cruiser. Just waiting for my property to sell before I can go ahead and buy one.

Buy a second hand boat and you can move aboard the same day as you hand over the cash. Buy a new boat and you will probably be waiting 2 years or so from when you sign the contract to when you take delivery. Where are you going to live for that 2 years?

Unless you buy one of the boats which are built on spec and sold ready to go. But then you will have hardly any choice of layout, equipment, style etc.

3 hours ago, Mr.T said:

I don’t think I’ll be using a lot of electricity, typical use would be something like 15-20 mins of air fryer and maybe one hob, 2-3 hours of tv or laptop use and a shower. And there would be washing machine use once or twice a week.

That's what newbies always think. But unlike being in a house where it just comes from a wire in the street every, every bit of electricity you use on a boat (if you do not have mains hookup) has to be generated on board.

And I imagine you will want a fridge as well, which typically consumes as much power as everything else added together.

1 hour ago, Mr.T said:

No idea if it will be forever to be honest but I guess if it’s not for me after a few years, I can sell a fairly new boat and get back on the property market.

And just like buying a car, the value of a new boat drops significantly as soon as you take it away, whereas a second hand boat will be cheaper in the first place and hold its value much better. The drop in value of a new boat could be quite a hit if you find out living afloat is not for you.

[Mr.T]

Thanks all. Can I get a general opinion on what the best energy set up is for a  comfortable ish winter when off grid? I’ve got a much better idea now but would be good to know how people are actually doing it. Is it basically having a good alternator and running the engine to use appliances and also topping up the lithium batteries? And of course just being more conscious of how much energy is being used.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

Thanks all. Can I get a general opinion on what the best energy set up is for a  comfortable ish winter when off grid? I’ve got a much better idea now but would be good to know how people are actually doing it. Is it basically having a good alternator and running the engine to use appliances and also topping up the lithium batteries? And of course just being more conscious of how much energy is being used.

Solid fuel stove for heating, with a back boiler and gravity circulation (no pump) to a calorifier and radiators for hot water. The stove can also be used for some cooking and kettle heating too. What absolutely has to run on electricity limited to lights, pumps, IT and refrigeration. When the outside temperature falls below 5C, then a suitably vermin proof outside store can allow the fridge to be turned off, saving a lot of electricity generation. Lithium batts require less engine running than lead acids, but need some one who knows what they are doing to install. A good combination of minimal energy use, civilisation and practicality.

[Mr.T]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Solid fuel stove for heating, with a back boiler to a calorifier for hot water. The stove can also be used for some cooking and kettle heating too. What absolutely has to run on electricity limited to lights, pumps, IT and refrigeration. When the outside temperature falls below 5C, then a suitably vermin proof outside store can allow the fridge to be turned off, saving a lot of electricity generation. Lithium batts require less engine running than lead acids, but need some one who knows what they are doing to install.

Many thanks, hadn’t thought of an outside fridge but sounds like a good idea

[magnetman]

Diesel. 

[Rob-M]

Marina mooring with shore power hookup gets you through winter.

[David Mack]

13 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

And of course just being more conscious of how much energy is being used.

Number one point! It's such a pain (and cost) to generate electricity on board during the winter* that minimising use is the best first step. And that means ditching electricity-hungry appliances. Hence the suggestions from previous posters that you look at solid fuel or diesel space and water heating and gas cooking. It goes without saying that lighting should be LED (except for your headlight). And keeping perishable food outside or in an underfloor locker can avoid fridge use in cold weather.

 

*If you have lots of solar you may have a surplus of electricity in summer, but even so electric cooking and water heating will not always be achievable without running the engine.

Edited August 9, 2023 by David Mack