Gas has run out

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Assuming you haven’t got an Alde leak detector (or a manometer etc)  you can make up a solution of 10% washing up liquid / water. If you brush this over the pipes, valves, joints etc you may find a leak. Bubbles will appear.

You can buy leak gas leak detector in spray or bottles ( Screwfix etc) and this is slightly less messy. Some people say washing up liquid damages the copper but loads of people use it. If you’ve been knocking pipes it’s not a bad idea to give them a quick squirt to check that you’ve not broken any joints in any case to be sure

Take care. Gas leaks on boats can be dangerous. I’d have thought most boaters were familiar with the problem can you not ask a nearby boat for a second opinion? Most people want to help and will understand that you are worried

I'm pretty sure I have a leak, but anyway best left alone for a professional, the last time a boater connected a bottle it lasted two days. I then bought the gas spray, but the whole spanner business is a nonsense I now use a wheel type controller which is easy to attach.

The suspect leak is right under the grill, and I'm just not able to fix it or test it as the moment.

2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

More importantly is what was the ‘hiss’ near the cooker?

Yes, and I think it was only when I had a kettle on, but maybe that was the only time I was near enough to hear it. I thought it was a singing noise in my ears.

Edited April 15, 2023 by LadyG

[Nightwatch]

Did you have the radio on by any chance? Teehee!

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You do not need a GSR fitter to change a gas bottle. If you get a fitter in to look at the stove, how can he if you have no gas? Do you want him to carry a bottle to your boat as well as  put the grill burner back in its slot in the cooker?

Come on woman, brace up and sort yourself out.

If you read every post I have made you would find out that I am doing these things, but until someone can come and service the cooker its Morrisons for breakfast, dinner and tea. What I wil do is buy one of their vacuum flasks and ask some random boater to fill it for me, hot water on demand.

Ill keep the post updated if there is anything that might be of value to others.

Edited April 15, 2023 by LadyG

[Higgs]

Just now, LadyG said:

If you read every post I have made you would find out that I am doing these things, but until someone can come and service the cooker its Morrisons for breakfast, dinner and tea. What I wil do is buy one of their vacuum flasks ang ask some random person to fill it for me, hot water on demand.

Ill keep the post updated if there is anything that might be of value to others.

 

A traveller's electric kettle could come in useful. Reasonable wattage, under 1kw. 

 

 

[Peugeot 106]

14 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

A traveller's electric kettle could come in useful. Reasonable wattage, under 1kw. 

 

 

We carry a gas camping stove and also a gas camping light just in case. They are cheap enough to buy and can use the same cartridge. You can just keep the cartridges in the gas locker to be belt and braces safe. 

[mrsmelly]

34 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Did you have the radio on by any chance? Teehee!

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Also need to get a Flogas bottle so at least I know I've got a method to test for a leak.

Sorry if you’ve explained; how will you use the full Flogas bottle to test for a leak?

 

[fatmanblue]

I'd suspect a failed regulator in this case, particularly if it is more than a few years old.

Obviously the system needs checking for leaks too.

An instance where a bubble tester would be very useful.

 

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, haggis said:

Do you not need different regulators for Flogas and Calor ? I ask because I had Flogas in my caravan and had to get a new regulator when I changed.

Your caravan uses butane!

[blackrose]

I haven't read the whole thread thoroughly so apologies if this has already been asked/answered.

 

Lady G, do you check for leaks at the pigtail fitting when you change your gas bottles? If not I suspect you might have a leak in the gas locker which might explain why you couldn't smell it because it's outside and draining overboard. 

 

I have a can of leak detector spray (about £6 from Screwfix) which I use on the brass pigtail fitting to the bottle every time I change gas bottles. I learned my lesson many years ago after a had a leak there and lost the contents of a new gas bottle within a couple of weeks because I hadn't tightened that pigtail sufficiently. Those bottle fittings are often old and abused.

 

You have to remember that's the high pressure side of the system, so even a small leak in the locker before the regulator will empty the bottle pretty quickly. It isn't too dangerous (as long as your locker is sealed and draining overboard properly), but it can be quite expensive!

 

I hope it's as simple as that. You can use washing up liquid and water of course to detect leaks but leak detector spray is better as it's non-corrosive and doesn't need to be rinsed off afterwards. Personally I wouldn't use washing up liquid to check any joints apart from the bottle/pigtail joint because capillary action will draw the solution into the joint where it can attack the fitting from the inside, and you can't rinse it off.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by blackrose

[Ronaldo47]

I think the potential issue with ordinary washing up liquid is that it contains a fair amount of common salt to make it thicker. Diluted  shampoo, or a neutral soap, will work just as well, you just need something to make bubbles.  

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

We carry a gas camping stove and also a gas camping light just in case. They are cheap enough to buy and can use the same cartridge. You can just keep the cartridges in the gas locker to be belt and braces safe. 

I do have a camping thing I rescued out of the cut, when the gas ran out I tried to replace the cylinder, but failed, assuming not every canister is the same size.

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

Sorry if you’ve explained; how will you use the full Flogas bottle to test for a leak?

 

The guy who comes to fix the leak might want to test integrity, certainly I want him to service the cooker and set all the jets properly.

Maybe he has another device, , I don't know. I have to get a bottle anyway, but I think the Calor still has some in it, however I'm not going to test for a leak with a naked flame!

 

[Tracy D'arth]

28 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I think the potential issue with ordinary washing up liquid is that it contains a fair amount of common salt to make it thicker. Diluted  shampoo, or a neutral soap, will work just as well, you just need something to make bubbles.  

The issue of pipe corrosion came to the fore when the town gas was phased out and natural gas came in. Due to the increased main pressure ( to save replacing a lot of distribution pipes and increase the flame propagation speed ) it was necessary to use a pressure regulator before the meter.  As most of the Servotomic conversion fitters were at best semiskilled, they used flexible stainless sections either side of the regulators to avoid proper pipe working. These replaced the old lead pipes.

Unfortunately no one foresaw the rusting problem with the welded on ends when water and washing up liquid was used to leak test.

 

[blackrose]

35 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I think the potential issue with ordinary washing up liquid is that it contains a fair amount of common salt to make it thicker. Diluted  shampoo, or a neutral soap, will work just as well, you just need something to make bubbles.  

 

Do we know what those products definitely don't contain salt or any other corrosive agents? Since the proper leak detection spray only costs 5 or 6 quid it seems rather shortsighted not to have a can onboard. 

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

A displaced grill burner will not be leaking gas. The grill burner is downstream of the ON/OFF gas grill control knob.

Makes sense.

Well that's one theory knocked out, I had just used a bristle brush from the underneath and that is the only access to the pipework as far as I am aware. I don't think there has been any other alterations.

I presume the function of the regulator is to control the release of gas stored in the bottle so that the pressure drops and the flow is correct for the gas rings.

Edited April 15, 2023 by LadyG

[Captain Pegg]

I'm staggered that anyone is suggesting anything other than connecting up a gas bottle that they know contains gas and then listen for the sound or smell of escaping gas.

 

I'd also be fairly staggered if it transpires there were any. I'd lay good money on it being exactly what the thread title says.

[Tracy D'arth]

Another voice of sanity.  Does that put you in my clique then?

Edited April 15, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[LadyG]

OK well I finally remembered how to find a good gas bod it was via the Boat safety scheme list of examiners, as I had wanted some minor gas things done, it was Richard Fee from Bradford.

I expect there will be someone closer if this company at Elland don't prove useful. The trouble is when one uses Google it promotes sponsored companies and they just link with certain words., So I'm no longer sure this Elland company does boat gas works.

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

I haven't read the whole thread thoroughly so apologies if this has already been asked/answered.

 

Lady G, do you check for leaks at the pigtail fitting when you change your gas bottles? If not I suspect you might have a leak in the gas locker which might explain why you couldn't smell it because it's outside and draining overboard. 

 

I have a can of leak detector spray (about £6 from Screwfix) which I use on the brass pigtail fitting to the bottle every time I change gas bottles. I learned my lesson many years ago after a had a leak there and lost the contents of a new gas bottle within a couple of weeks because I hadn't tightened that pigtail sufficiently. Those bottle fittings are often old and abused.

 

You have to remember that's the high pressure side of the system, so even a small leak in the locker before the regulator will empty the bottle pretty quickly. It isn't too dangerous (as long as your locker is sealed and draining overboard properly), but it can be quite expensive!

 

I hope it's as simple as that. You can use washing up liquid and water of course to detect leaks but leak detector spray is better as it's non-corrosive and doesn't need to be rinsed off afterwards. Personally I wouldn't use washing up liquid to check any joints apart from the bottle/pigtail joint because capillary action will draw the solution into the joint where it can attack the fitting from the inside, and you can't rinse it off.

 

 

Googling pigtail.

The fitting on the Calor bottle is standard, it comes with a plastic cap, this is removed and the regulator goes in, and is tightened up with a wheel.

I assume this pigtail is the rubber hose with special endings that connects the regulator to the boat gas pipes, and no, I only use the fluid on the regulator and the hose near it, I don't think I can reach the other end of it, so it is possible it's had a bit of a leak, This is why I need someone to come and check it all. If there is a leak I can't sort it anyway.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by LadyG

[blackrose]

You use leak detection fluid on your regulator? Well that's a new one on me.

 

I'm talking about checking leaks at the connection between the brass fitting on the end of the black rubber pipe (pigtail) and the gas bottle. That should be easy enough for anyone. You don't need a qualified person for that.

 

If there was a leak at that point you could easily sort it yourself by simply tightening the connection.

Edited April 15, 2023 by blackrose

[alias]

54 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I expect there will be someone closer if this company at Elland don't prove useful.

 

From the GasSafe site the four firms closest to you offering the service you say you want are:

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by alias

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Do we know what those products definitely don't contain salt or any other corrosive agents? Since the proper leak detection spray only costs 5 or 6 quid it seems rather shortsighted not to have a can onboard. 

 

If I remember correctly, I believe that the 'do not use washing soap' guidance come from many sources including the BSS themselves.

 

It is not 'salts' it is the Chlorine and Ammonia in washing up liquid that attack the brass, copper and stainless steel/

 

In the washing up liquid the Ammonia they put in for example will lead to stress cracks appearing which will seep into all parts of the valve and lead to brass parts failing catastrophically and simply put valves will leak in some way or form. Chlorine in the washing up liquid will cause the same damage to stainless steel parts.

 

Use the proper stuff - why scrimp and risk a gas leak / possible explosion just to 'save a fiver'.

 

You know it makes sense !

Edited April 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[LadyG]

Problem identified.

A few days ago the milk boiled over.

Since then that ring has not worked, but all the others have!

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, LadyG said:

Problem identified.

A few days ago the milk boiled over.

Since then that ring has not worked, but all the others have!

 

So boiling the milk meant you ran out of gas (or what ?)

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, LadyG said:

Problem identified.

A few days ago the milk boiled over.

Since then that ring has not worked, but all the others have!

 

I suspect the 2000 burners are very similar to the 2040. If they are, you need to undo the two small screws securing the cap to the burner casting so you can clean it all out On mine some of the screws snapped, some came out with pilers on the broken end whilst others needed drilling out and tapping for new screws. Good luck, at least I had the metric tap required, M4 I think.

[Naughty Cal]

LadyG. 

 

Serious question. 

 

You have been a salty water boater in the past. How on earth did you manage that when you don't appear to have the ability to do anything on your boat?