MrsM Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 I did some paint marbling for Whitefield. Stylistically not everyone's cup of tea I agree but the quality of the Fernood fit-out was amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackofalltrades Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: No but the boats on it should be suitable for it. The affair in the tunnel shows this one was not and steering by joystick and TV monitor is not likely to be easy or even possible in a crowded water way. 11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: It was not just the look, Joy stick steering and other hi tec things that didn't appear to work to well. Yes that is the one. Maybe a retro fit Yes I agree the joystick steering seems not to have been a great idea. Having now read the review that Alan de Enfield posted a link to "it was the constant pressure from the tiller that [the owner] didn’t like on his long weekend on a normal narrowboat" so he opted for an OTT fly-by-wire joystick control system at god-knows-what-cost as a solution. Each to their own ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said: Yes I agree the joystick steering seems not to have been a great idea. Having now read the review that Alan de Enfield posted a link to "it was the constant pressure from the tiller that [the owner] didn’t like on his long weekend on a normal narrowboat" so he opted for an OTT fly-by-wire joystick control system at god-knows-what-cost as a solution. Each to their own ? Might have been better fitting power steering to a conventional tiller system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackofalltrades Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, David Mack said: Might have been better fitting power steering to a conventional tiller system There are tiller pilots (autopilots) and hydraulic wheel steering, but power tiller steering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, Jackofalltrades said: There are tiller pilots (autopilots) and hydraulic wheel steering, but power tiller steering? Why not? Something that senses the tiller movement and applies force to the steering, reducing the pressure which the steerer has to apply to the tiller, yet retaining the direct mechanical link between the steerer's hand and rudder that provides the fine control which makes tiller steering so much better than wheel (or, I suspect, joystick). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackofalltrades Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, David Mack said: Why not? Something that senses the tiller movement and applies force to the steering, reducing the pressure which the steerer has to apply to the tiller, yet retaining the direct mechanical link between the steerer's hand and rudder that provides the fine control which makes tiller steering so much better than wheel (or, I suspect, joystick). I agree, it sounds feasible. I'm just not aware that such a thing exists for tiller steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ray T said: It is interesting to see the progress, or lack of this boat. It was a bold experiment, some may say otherwise, but IMHO it was always doomed to failure at it is a 21st Century boat with many innovative ideas on a 17th Century system. If you put regressive instead of innovative I would agree Ray! Well found. It would be a good static London boat. Dragged along on a bit of string every now and then but.... luxury inside! Edited April 12, 2021 by mark99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 The joystick is ultimate joy. For the painters and the brokers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 I wonder if it is a passive joystick or has feedback. I suspect the former because as I understand it there was a problem stopping it wondering all over the canal. I can see no reason why the valve assembly and torsion bar could not be modified to fit to the rudders stock to control a steering ram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav and Pen Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 This chap manages to control his 110m river cruise ship with a little lever. All the big barges have a layout like this. Photo from google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: I wonder if it is a passive joystick or has feedback. I suspect the former because as I understand it there was a problem stopping it wondering all over the canal. I can see no reason why the valve assembly and torsion bar could not be modified to fit to the rudders stock to control a steering ram. Am I being simplistic/thick or just ignorant by suggesting a servo extension on the rudder forward of the pivot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Mad Harold said: Am I being simplistic/thick or just ignorant by suggesting a servo extension on the rudder forward of the pivot? I don't understand that. You need some kind of hydraulic valve to react to steering movement and also provide feedback. The ram associated with such a valve can be connected to a lever anywhere convenient on the rudder stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 Just now, Tony Brooks said: I don't understand that. You need some kind of hydraulic valve to react to steering movement and also provide feedback. The ram associated with such a valve can be connected to a lever anywhere convenient on the rudder stock. Sorry Tony,I was being simplistic. No hydraulics or electronics,but a simple rudder extension forward of the rudder pivot,about 25% of rudder size or less if there is insufficient prop clearance.The upstream bit of the rudder then gives a servo effect,lightening the force required to move the rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 Just now, Mad Harold said: Sorry Tony,I was being simplistic. No hydraulics or electronics,but a simple rudder extension forward of the rudder pivot,about 25% of rudder size or less if there is insufficient prop clearance.The upstream bit of the rudder then gives a servo effect,lightening the force required to move the rudder. In other words a balanced rudder exactly like the vast majority of canal boats have and almost certainly Whitfield does as well. From what has been said I don't think the lightness was the issue, it was more that prop walk meant the rudder always needs holding a tad off-centre and the first owner found it tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: In other words a balanced rudder exactly like the vast majority of canal boats have and almost certainly Whitfield does as well. From what has been said I don't think the lightness was the issue, it was more that prop walk meant the rudder always needs holding a tad off-centre and the first owner found it tiring. Thanks Tony didn't know it was called a balanced rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 2 hours ago, David Mack said: Why not? Something that senses the tiller movement and applies force to the steering, reducing the pressure which the steerer has to apply to the tiller, yet retaining the direct mechanical link between the steerer's hand and rudder that provides the fine control which makes tiller steering so much better than wheel (or, I suspect, joystick). Or a trim tab on the rudder. Not even sure it would need to be adjustable. Or just have a longer uxter plate, with a greater distance between propeller and rudder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 19 hours ago, Athy said: Pump-out or cassette? Now I see the tiller, almost lost amongst the bling. That's up at Anderton marina - Two Loos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 47 minutes ago, Mike Todd said: - Two Loos. Nothing wrong with that, we have an ensuite to the master cabin and a 'visitors' toilet/bathroom on both out boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Nothing wrong with that, we have an ensuite to the master cabin and a 'visitors' toilet/bathroom on both out boats I may be mis-remembering it, but I thought that the short pumpout boat at the ABC marina was called Two Loos Lautrec. If it is not then (a) it should be and (b) my oblique joke will have fallen flat (again!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Mike Todd said: I may be mis-remembering it, but I thought that the short pumpout boat at the ABC marina was called Two Loos Lautrec. If it is not then (a) it should be and (b) my oblique joke will have fallen flat (again!) Indeed it is, I obviously wrongly assumed that your post following the posts about the boat with two loos applied to it. Apologies for being a bit dense - I'm not used to so much sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudds Lad Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 poor lad, i bet he never envisaged his stature becoming the comedy go-to of every saturday night tv gameshow in the 70's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Mike Todd said: I may be mis-remembering it, but I thought that the short pumpout boat at the ABC marina was called Two Loos Lautrec. If it is not then (a) it should be and (b) my oblique joke will have fallen flat (again!) I wonder how old Two Loos Lautrec is? We hired from IML at Anderton in 1988, well before ABC took over and Two Loos was operating then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, cuthound said: I wonder how old Two Loos Lautrec is? We hired from IML at Anderton in 1988, well before ABC took over and Two Loos was operating then. Ive a feeling they no longer have it at Anderton....I think it might have ended up being for sale at Pillings Lock at some point but that might be my memory failing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, frangar said: Ive a feeling they no longer have it at Anderton....I think it might have ended up being for sale at Pillings Lock at some point but that might be my memory failing. I think you are right on that, its gone for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenA Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, cuthound said: I wonder how old Two Loos Lautrec is? We hired from IML at Anderton in 1988, well before ABC took over and Two Loos was operating then. It was there when we first hired back in 1979 when they were Masterfleet Edited April 13, 2021 by StephenA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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