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Well

 

After 14 Years service the time has come to replace my Stove 

 

The Boat yard have stated :-

 

"

The existing stove is currently fitted in the front starboard corner of the cabin and is very close to combustible materials (the step). It is also fitted with a steel flue pipe and on a stone hearth without an air gap between giving no thermal barrier.

 

If you were to fit a new stove, the new stove would need to be fitted to manufactures regulations which states that the flue should be a double insulated type and also the hearth would need to be remade as listed in the documents above.

The issue with the new regulations is that the suggested distances from combustible materials which makes it impossible to achieve on the forward bulkhead."

 

A fair bit of the above is true .... But if I replace like for like, any advise on the BSS Viewpoint  ?..... It passed a BSS earlier this year as is ?

 

I do admit the steps are close ..... The Hearth is wood.....   Double insulated flue is a new one ??

 

Anyhow the yard quoted £3K to relocate the stove in middle of boat ...... Just looking for other options .

 

OR

 

Does anyone recommended a stove fitter in Nantwich (SU) area ??

 

Thank you for reading 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

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As long as there is no sign of overheating on the surrounding materials I don't think the BSS could give a hoot. remember that BS 8511 is only recommendation of best practice not mandatory at present but I doubt anyone you are paying to fit it would risk the potential outcome of not adhering the S 8511 and/or the manufacturer's recommendation.

 

The hearth may not be such an issue because the heat resistance required can vary according to stove design.

  • Greenie 1
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It is as many too much into the corner which is daft and avoids air circulation and does seem too near the steps. Can you not pull it into the cabin more away from the doors and steps and re jig the flue? Mine is in the corner but I positioned it so the nearest point of the hull is 8 inches away and its 18 inches back from the doors and clear of the steps. The double skinned flue is the usual 21st century nonsense and I will not be having one. Its a simply diy job to be fair. If you put your hand on the deck underneath the fire when its running I doubt its barely warm, mine gets luke warm the heat goes up.

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In my opinion the boatyard is right, the space is too tight for that stove. One possibility is a smaller stove although that is clutching at straws. You might get away with a smaller stove that is turned to face along the boat and not at that angle but  I think that you might just have to reposition it. 3K seems a lot to do it but then I still think in pre decimal prices.

  • Greenie 2
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My stove is in a similar setting, although a bit further from the steps.

I keep a piece of sheet metal (actually the side off an old PC) which sits next to the steps between them and the stove, so not taking any room.  This theoretically helps to protect the steps, but in practice barely gets warm, probably because the stove is at an angle like yours so not that much stove close to the wood.  This then doubles as a floor protector when emptying the ash can.  A piece of wood batten screwed to the back keeps it off the floor.

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Our stove is in the corner, when it was installed a few years ago we had a new steel hearth, new paneling on the walls with an air gap and a double skin flue. There is a piece of fireboats attached to the side of the steps.  We did deliberately select a small stove though to increase the space around it.

 

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You could chop a few inches off the side of the steps they're wide enough, wouldn't need much skill, and then the stove might turn around a little to face more into the cabin and look much more presentable.

Edited by bizzard
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If you are able to slightly reduce the step width, they could be protected by an airgap shield as in the photo below. As it isnt a new fit as such (and I stand to be corrected)  I believe your stove needs to be fitted in good practice, with the best safety measurements you can achieve, rather than to the new regs. However i can understand a boatyard wanting to fit to new regs, especially if re-siting it, to cover themselves, I would do the same. If you can manage with a physically smaller stove, that might help, and perhaps it could be brought forward to enable an air gap barrier surround. Are there any visual signs of scorching anywhere?  I'm guessing not if it passed a bss. Do you know what the construction of the surround is? Ie, is it tiled to fireboard or ply, was an air gap left, etc. If you do need to reconfigure your hearth, there is no need for it to be raised. I shared a photo on another thread of a flush fitting dropped steel tray that means you need less forward hearth for safety. The double skinned insulated flues again are current new fit requirements, depending on the distance from flue to wall.

28062010453.jpg

Edited by Ally
  • Greenie 1
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The type of shield shown by the image above is very effective, while also allow inspection of the wood behind it, although while it does work I am not sure if it is technically compliant. 

 

I have had it suggested to me by someone I respect that a double insulated flue helps with making the stove controllable and can even reduce fuel use because of that, however again I am no expert on the regs!

 

As said, we also do not know what is behind the stone back/sides. I would not be so worried about the base and stoves tend to put out less heat this way (ash box in the way, etc) however there have been plenty of cases of scorched wood behind stone sides and tiles and the yard are right to be cautious.

 

I also agree that, while I might be ok with the right materials etc, given the width of the steps etc, it is a very tight location for the stove.

 

Why is the stove being changed? Are the photos current, or from when the boat was new?

 

 

Daniel 

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1 hour ago, DHutch said:

The type of shield shown by the image above is very effective, while also allow inspection of the wood behind it, although while it does work I am not sure if it is technically compliant. 

 

 

 

Daniel 

As you probably know we had an independent RCD assessor inspect every one of our new builds. This particular solution was in a small boat with little option for placement and the customers had very fixed ideas of what they wanted where. It was passed as a compliant solution for protection due to the free flow air allowance and distance,  BUT, it was built and installed prior to the new stove regs currently in place. 

  • Greenie 1
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3 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Our stove is in the corner, when it was installed a few years ago we had a new steel hearth, new paneling on the walls with an air gap and a double skin flue. There is a piece of fireboats attached to the side of the steps.  We did deliberately select a small stove though to increase the space around it.

 

 

Hi Rob

 

Can I ask what stove that is at all ..... Just to compare sizes as an idea  etc 

 

Andy

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2 hours ago, Ally said:

..... we had an independent RCD assessor inspect ......it was passed as a compliant solution for protection due to the free flow air allowance and distance,  BUT, it was built and installed prior to the new stove regs currently in place. 

Fair enough. Sounds good to me, but again, not an expert, nor up to speed with the current regs.

 

Daniel

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43 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Approved by whom??  The Hobbit stove is sold as suitable for use on ‘canal boats’.  So not sure what ‘approval’ it is missing.

Portway Marine stove approved by British Standards. If you google it you will find the approval number. Don't think the Hobbit stove is approved by British Standards for use on a boat

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I remember seeing the portway stove when it was first manufactured, while on a course for the new regs. It really does aid compliance,  but i've not seen it in action, and with sides that are kept cooler, and then an insulated flue aswell, i began to wonder if it was worth bothering with stoves on boats at all! Iirc its supposed to be over 100% efficient.?.not sure i can quite get my head round that. Looked nice enough though.

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18 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

All these pictures of immaculate stoves and surrounds - not a speck of ash or dirt.  Should I feel ashamed, or just assume they're never lit?  😎

Ours is well mucky most of the time! Definitely has non compliant dog hair on the tray!

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Thank you all for your words ..

 

Hunting a solution is still very much in progress.

 

I really don't want to move the stove unless totally bullied into it by the regs (Guidance)

 

A solution might be to fit a smaller stove and refurb the hearth !

 

Thank you again

 

Andy

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13 hours ago, Tonka said:

Portway Marine stove approved by British Standards. If you google it you will find the approval number.

 

Googling finds absolutely no reference to BSI approval of the Portway Marine Stove, and this is not mentioned in the manufacturer's brochure (2018) or on the couple of dealer websites I looked at.

 

The Marine stove isn't shown on the Portway website or 2020 brochure, although I did find a 2018 brochure with it in. So is it still available? The 2018 brochure shows it carries a CE mark, but it does not have the other approvals that their other stove models have.

My guess is that it was a trial product for a niche market that didn't justify the cost of putting through the full certification process, and may well have been discontinued or is only available to special order.

Edited by David Mack
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13 hours ago, Tonka said:

Portway Marine stove approved by British Standards. If you google it you will find the approval number. Don't think the Hobbit stove is approved by British Standards for use on a boat

I don't think that British Standards offer an 'approval' for stoves (or anything). They write the specification and independant examiners certify it is "manufactured to BS1234"

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