Grey water discharge

[Jerra]

10 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

But are not they both chemical manufacturing process rather than extractions? That is, the output chemical was not in the original source. 

The point I was making is, that to me it is better to use a renewable, biodegradable, original input ingredient rather than a resource which is running, out not rewable on any useful time, scale and much worse at biodegrading.

[carlt]

7 minutes ago, Jerra said:

OK I will try to make the question clearer.

 

No, you tried to make the question simpler which is exactly the point I was making. 

It isn't a simple question...just like those who espouse veganism can't see beyond cow farts and recognise the environmental destruction that would be caused by everyone turning vegan.

There are no simple answers because there are no simple questions. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Jerra said:

OK I will try to make the question clearer.   Currently we use washing up liquid (particularly on boats) this can have a detriment effect on the environment.  It makes sense if possible to reduce this damage by using "things" which are less harmful to the environment.  You aren't happy with organic renewable things.  Petroleum products will be/are running out.

 

So the question is what do you suggest is done to provide a washing up liquid which is better for the environment?

 

There is no organisation in this single or multiple it is a personal choice.

Forget the dishwasher, forget chemicals, use :

 

 

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, carlt said:

 

No, you tried to make the question simpler which is exactly the point I was making. 

It isn't a simple question...just like those who espouse veganism can't see beyond cow farts and recognise the environmental destruction that would be caused by everyone turning vegan.

There are no simple answers because there are no simple questions. 

 

Yes, quite so. The problem is that unless a substance works as well or better than detergent people will shun it. It would be nice to buy everything non toxic but the reality is it must do the job. We are at this point with lectric cars, they are simply at present no where near being as capable as ice cars and are many years away from being so, therefore sales are minute as people cannot use them. 

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes, quite so. The problem is that unless a substance works as well or better than detergent people will shun it. It would be nice to buy everything non toxic but the reality is it must do the job. We are at this point with lectric cars, they are simply at present no where near being as capable as ice cars and are many years away from being so, therefore sales are minute as people cannot use them. 

As has been pointed out by myself and a number of other "bio" washing up liquid works.   I know with your closed mind about everything e.g. toilets, if dishwashers work Brexit ect you won't/can't accept that.

[David Mack]

22 hours ago, BruceinSanity said:

I take that as a compliment, though I don't deserve it. IIRC, it was originally a Frank Muir story at the end of an episode of My Word.

While it certainly has the ring (and groan-worthy ending) of a My Word story, I can't imagine the BBC of that era would ever use a commercial advertising slogan that names the product as part of the programme.

[carlt]

26 minutes ago, Jerra said:

As has been pointed out by myself and a number of other "bio" washing up liquid works. 

They may work compared to "budget" washing up liquid but I have tried them with an open mind and, compared to Fairy, like cheaper normal brands, the eco brands just don't work as well. 

They appear to be satisfied with matching the performance of budget brands but charging a premium price because of their "green" credentials. 

As long as I can wash up with one drop of fairy compared to 5 or more times any other brand "green" or not, I am satisfied that my grey water is causing no more damage to the scores of fish happily munching on my hull growth than anyone using ecover (other green wash products are available). 

[zenataomm]

On 31/07/2019 at 11:34, Jerra said:

 I am amazed, talking of the let how many don't use the diah washer and prefer hand washing.

From a marketing point of view I don't think the name diah washer is a seller although it does sound as if it could have a role in some of our lives!

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

From a marketing point of view I don't think the name diah washer is a seller although it does sound as if it could have a role in some of our lives!

Maybe its a "diah-rear" washer ?

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

As has been pointed out by myself and a number of other "bio" washing up liquid works.   I know with your closed mind about everything e.g. toilets, if dishwashers work Brexit ect you won't/can't accept that.

As pointed out by myself and others they dont work as well as proper detergents. Nor do leccy cars compete on a level with ice vehicles yet. Hopefuly in the future both will be improved.

[MtB]

20 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I luv dolphins and whales.

 

I luv them too but I can never manage a whole one.

 

 

[BruceinSanity]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

While it certainly has the ring (and groan-worthy ending) of a My Word story, I can't imagine the BBC of that era would ever use a commercial advertising slogan that names the product as part of the programme.

That’s a good point which hadn’t occurred to me.

[cuthound]

On 01/08/2019 at 16:20, mrsmelly said:

I luv dolphins and whales.

 

With chips and squeeze of lemon? ?

[Dr Bob]

On 01/08/2019 at 16:20, mrsmelly said:

I luv dolphins and whales.

We sold our house in wales when we moved onto the boat.

[Onionman]

6 hours ago, carlt said:

They may work compared to "budget" washing up liquid but I have tried them with an open mind and, compared to Fairy, like cheaper normal brands, the eco brands just don't work as well. 

They appear to be satisfied with matching the performance of budget brands but charging a premium price because of their "green" credentials. 

As long as I can wash up with one drop of fairy compared to 5 or more times any other brand "green" or not, I am satisfied that my grey water is causing no more damage to the scores of fish happily munching on my hull growth than anyone using ecover (other green wash products are available). 

And the question left hanging is: which does more environmental damage? The one drop of petroleum-based Fairy or the five drops of Ecover?*

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I don't know. And, almost certainly, neither does anyone without a huge amount of effort to work it out.

[Jerra]

25 minutes ago, Onionman said:

And the question left hanging is: which does more environmental damage? The one drop of petroleum-based Fairy or the five drops of Ecover?*

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I don't know. And, almost certainly, neither does anyone without a huge amount of effort to work it out.

I don't know either, what I do know is I have never needed anywhere near 5 drops of any bio/eco washing up liquid. 

[carlt]

15 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I don't know either, what I do know is I have never needed anywhere near 5 drops of any bio/eco washing up liquid. 

I have which is why I stopped using it. 

 

That and its lower viscosity which means you use more (which is why it is a false economy to buy thinner budget brands). 

[Jerra]

12 minutes ago, carlt said:

I have which is why I stopped using it. 

 

That and its lower viscosity which means you use more (which is why it is a false economy to buy thinner budget brands). 

I would agree about viscosity but I don't find ours any thiner than non budget brands.

[carlt]

12 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I would agree about viscosity but I don't find ours any thiner than non budget brands.

Maybe the guy we were buying it off was watering it down (refill your own bottle). 

You know what they say about scratching a hippy... 

[ditchcrawler]

Some years ago I was a member of the Broads Forum and at the time there was something called the  Green Blue initiative, Hire companies were being rated and getting points on the environmental credentials. The organisation dishing out  these points gave us a presentation and points were received for supplying "Eco " washing products on the hire boat. When questioned about how good these were the presenter admitted they said "Eco" on the labels so must be better.  https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/owning-a-boat/environmentally-friendly-boating

[TheBiscuits]

On 31/07/2019 at 10:11, Tony Brooks said:

I also suspect the primary cause, but not the only one was heat. At least in the past they used to pump air into the Thames (Thames Bubbler) when heat produced low oxygen levels in the water but I can't see the EA willingly doing that on CaRT waters and its not CaRT's job to deal with water quality.

I've seen them doing it for large scale spillages on the L&L - most recently in March this year.  4 blokes from the EA living in tents for three days at the top of Wigan Flight. 

 

I understand they were in Leigh last month, but I wasn't so didn't see it. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I think a good trip to make to see the actual effect of grey water on the canals is to go up the Grand Union Slough Arm. We went up there in 2016 and whilst it was generally fine, when we got to the bit where the moored boats are, the weed had gone berserk. We were stopping every 100 yards or so to clear the prop and when we got to the Jewson yard at the end (I think it's gone now) we were pushing a weed mat about 8 feet deep. All this weed was being fed by the grey water from the moored boats (that clearly never went anywhere). I don't know what the fix is, but we are clearly having an effect on the water.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Wanderer Vagabond

[Chewbacka]

8 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think a good trip to make to see the actual effect of grey water on the canals is to go up the Grand Union Slough Arm. We went up there in 2016 and whilst it was generally fine, when we got to the bit where the moored boats are, the weed had gone berserk. We were stopping every 100 yards or so to clear the prop and when we got to the Jewson yard at the end (I think it's gone now) we were pushing a weed mat about 8 feet deep. All this weed was being fed by the grey water from the moored boats (that clearly never went anywhere). I don't know what the fix is, but we are clearly having an effect on the water.

I hope you washed your arms after going down the weed hatch and sticking your arm into the soup.

Not just phosphates that promote weed growth. 

[dor]

25 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I hope you washed your arms after going down the weed hatch and sticking your arm into the soup.

Not just phosphates that promote weed growth. 

Very true.  I suspect the phosphates have little to do with it.  Another 'biological natural' addition on the other hand ...

[Jerra]

25 minutes ago, dor said:

Very true.  I suspect the phosphates have little to do with it.  Another 'biological natural' addition on the other hand ...

In general Nitrogen is used by plants for the green parts, Potassium for flowers and fruit (Have you used Compure K on your tomatoes?) and Phosphates for the root system.  More complex than that obviously but that is roughly  the split.