Kitchen Appliances

[Peter009]

Hi everyone new here but wondered if anybody out there may have some advice on kitchen appliances that would best suit a canalboat .  We are restoring a boat at the moment and we are in the process of trying to work out the kitchen.

 

I was wondering if anybody out there uses electric induction hobs or ovens our preference is to go electric rather than LPG for safety reasons but understand that electric hobs/ovens are really heavy on power and would probably drain the batteries if not on shore power does anybody use them with an inverter and if so what brand would you recommend.

 

Bit worried about gas in the boat but at the same time dont want to be reliant on shorepower if cruising for months on end which is what we want to do eventually will have solar when we can afford it as well

 

Any advice would really be appreciated thanks 

 

 

Sorry also thinking about a shoreline fridge anybody use those ?  thanks

[Nut]

welcome to the forums

I think the consensus is gas and 12 volt fridge as electric hobs etc would be a huge strain on the batteries etc

an expert will  be along shortly

[Mike Hurley]

Do you have gas in your house?

 

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi everyone new here but wondered if anybody out there may have some advice on kitchen appliances that would best suit a canalboat .  We are restoring a boat at the moment and we are in the process of trying to work out the kitchen.

 

I was wondering if anybody out there uses electric induction hobs or ovens our preference is to go electric rather than LPG for safety reasons but understand that electric hobs/ovens are really heavy on power and would probably drain the batteries if not on shore power does anybody use them with an inverter and if so what brand would you recommend.

 

Bit worried about gas in the boat but at the same time dont want to be reliant on shorepower if cruising for months on end which is what we want to do eventually will have solar when we can afford it as well

 

Any advice would really be appreciated thanks 

 

 

Sorry also thinking about a shoreline fridge anybody use those ?  thanks

A very experienced marine electrical member who now does not post once said words yo the effect that only a complete idiot tries to use battery power to produce heat and he is more or less correct. I have no idea why you are so worried about gas on canal boats, especially when you try to find stats for accidents caused by gas V accidents caused by petrol & solid fuel stoves although those are rare enough. If electrical heat production on a narrow boat was such a good idea why have only a handful tried it? (use of microwave etc. when the engine is running excepted). If you want electrical cooking while out cruising you almost certainly will require a cocooned generator so add another £10,000.

 

It is no accident boats tend to settle for gas cooking and solid fuel heating.

 

We had a Shoreline 12V fridge, not particularly impressed with the quality. We now have a 12V Weaco.

[Peter009]

2 minutes ago, Nut said:

welcome to the forums

I think the consensus is gas and 12 volt fridge as electric hobs etc would be a huge strain on the batteries etc

an expert will  be along shortly

Hi that is what I was thinking as am not sure there are any hobs that are that low voltage, the reason I was thinking about electric is because somebody went to the boat show and told me that they are sold everywhere now which I am not sure is quite true for narrowboats which is why I wanted to check with people actually on canalboats that know thanks very much for your reply as confirming my thoughts 

[Peter009]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

A very experienced marine electrical member who now does not post once said words yo the effect that only a complete idiot tries to use battery power to produce heat and he is more or less correct. I have no idea why you are so worried about gas on canal boats, especially when you try to find stats for accidents caused by gas V accidents caused by petrol & solid fuel stoves although those are rare enough. If electrical heat production on a narrow boat was such a good idea why have only a handful tried it? (use of microwave etc. when the engine is running excepted). If you want electrical cooking while out cruising you almost certainly will require a cocooned generator so add another £10,000.

 

It is no accident boats tend to settle for gas cooking and solid fuel heating.

 

We had a Shoreline 12V fridge, not particularly impressed with the quality. We now have a 12V Weaco.

Hi Tony

Thanks for your reply I see what you mean makes sense and no we dont want a generator just for a bit of cooking that really would be silly if we did that , I think as long as the gas bottles are correctly installed to the appliance there should be no problem, I am not that worried about gas on a boat as it really comes down to being sensible I guess if I had a choice I would like electric but does not make sense really so thank you for confirming this we are going to go the way we was thinking before which is gas hob and oven I was looking at Belling but very expensive I will look up Weaco thanks for that my wife wants a washing machine but I suspect that will only be good if we are on shorepower I have seen some twin tub ones that I might look at too.  Thanks 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi that is what I was thinking as am not sure there are any hobs that are that low voltage, the reason I was thinking about electric is because somebody went to the boat show and told me that they are sold everywhere now which I am not sure is quite true for narrowboats which is why I wanted to check with people actually on canalboats that know thanks very much for your reply as confirming my thoughts 

You need a certain number of Watts to produce a given amount of heat  and as Watts = Amps X Volts if you reduce the voltage you increase the Amps required to produce the same amount of heat. so a 12V version of a mains unit will  draw roughly 20 times the amps. That is also true if you runit via and inverter but an inverter is worse because it uses some   electricity to power itself.

[bizzard]

And cold weather in the winter reduces the battery capacity quite a bit too, especially if stuffed onto a swim in the cold on cruiser stern boats. Its best to have them all inside suspended from the ceiling above the stove.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Peter009 said:

Hi Tony

Thanks for your reply I see what you mean makes sense and no we dont want a generator just for a bit of cooking that really would be silly if we did that , I think as long as the gas bottles are correctly installed to the appliance there should be no problem, I am not that worried about gas on a boat as it really comes down to being sensible I guess if I had a choice I would like electric but does not make sense really so thank you for confirming this we are going to go the way we was thinking before which is gas hob and oven I was looking at Belling but very expensive I will look up Weaco thanks for that my wife wants a washing machine but I suspect that will only be good if we are on shorepower I have seen some twin tub ones that I might look at too.  Thanks 

If you get a high output domestic alternator on the engine (which nowadays is probably standard) and a decent inverter then as long as you only wash while cruising a mains automatic washing machine is perfectly doable. It is even more doable if you fill via a thermostatic mixing valve set to your desired wash temperature and set the machine to cold wash. That way the heavy electrical consumer, the heating element, never comes on. The only problem is that you rinse in warm/hot water but as the engine is running and heating more water its not a problem.

 

Don't rely upon others who have visited a boat show. The Southampton and London shows are mainly about the "luxury" end of the salty water market where onboard generators are standard. Visit the crick Boat Show next spring for inland stuff. Also visit a few INLAND chandlers to see the domestic equipment available.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

Hi that is what I was thinking as am not sure there are any hobs that are that low voltage, the reason I was thinking about electric is because somebody went to the boat show and told me that they are sold everywhere now which I am not sure is quite true for narrowboats which is why I wanted to check with people actually on canalboats that know thanks very much for your reply as confirming my thoughts 

It takes exactly the same amount to power to heat a litre of water, or a joint of meat, irrespective of using 12volts or 230 volts.

Say for example it takes 1kw hour (a 1kw heater element running for 1 hour)

 

You can use a 12 volt, 1kw heater and it will take 1 hour and draw approximately 90 amps/h from you batteries

You can use a 230v 1kw heater and it will take 1 hour and draw approximately 4 amps/h from the 'mains'.

You could use a 12 volt 100 watt heater and it would take 10 hours and draw approximately 90 amps/h from your batteries.

 

You could use an inverter to convert  your 12v supply to 230v and using a 1kw heater it would use approximately 100 amps/h from your batteries.

 

Drawing 100a/h from virtually any battery bank is soon going to flatten it.

[system 4-50]

This is where I do my standard spiel:  I have 

standard 60cm freestanding gas cooker (2 ovens inc grill, hob)

gas water heater (Morco)

gas fridge (Dometic)

gas tumble dryer (White Knight)

I use cold wash on a 7kg slim Candy GOFS washing machine and take hot wash stuff (rarely) to my house.

I would recommend gas provided that it is correctly installed and maintained, and operated by people with commonsense.

[Johny London]

You could perfectly well run a 240v hob and oven - provided you have a generator running. So you would need to do all your cooking between the hours of 8am-8pm. A marine generator such as a Fischer Pander could be picked up second hand for a couple grand - but be prepared for "a bit of a project" when it comes to the install.

 

On the other hand, gas is very economical to cook with. One 13kg bottle lasts me in excess of 3 months, and I use the oven most evenings. Your choice of appliance can be quite limited though - there are "boaty" looking little things available though quite expensive. Trying to find domestic appliances to suit can be tricky - obviously they need to be lpg not ng - some have swap-able "jets" others don't, so check before you buy. Most still need a 240v supply - for the ignition and for the ovens internal cooling fan which they all seem to have these days. They also need to have auto shut off in case of flame out. If you have an oven with a digital display, but you regularly turn off your 240v, it will need the clock resetting every time.

I found an oven from Belling with a separate grilling compartment and no digital display (Was £317 delivered from gdha). Also a nice black glass hob that was smaller than most so suited my worktop space : https://www.jsi-uk.com/jsi-uk-hgg4110-03a-30cm-glass-gas-front-control-domino-hob-natural-gas-and-lpg

Hope that's of some help.

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Hi everyone new here but wondered if anybody out there may have some advice on kitchen appliances that would best suit a canalboat .  We are restoring a boat at the moment and we are in the process of trying to work out the kitchen.

 

I was wondering if anybody out there uses electric induction hobs or ovens our preference is to go electric rather than LPG for safety reasons but understand that electric hobs/ovens are really heavy on power and would probably drain the batteries if not on shore power does anybody use them with an inverter and if so what brand would you recommend.

 

Bit worried about gas in the boat but at the same time dont want to be reliant on shorepower if cruising for months on end which is what we want to do eventually will have solar when we can afford it as well

 

Any advice would really be appreciated thanks 

 

 

Sorry also thinking about a shoreline fridge anybody use those ?  thanks

Gas cooking, it's simple efficient and very safe. Mains fridge etc run from top notch inverter which uses similar power to 12 volt fridge but much more choice and better built and seventy four million pounds cheaper than 12 volt stuff. Solid fuel stove for heating and travel power on engine for washing machine etc. Hot water from modern engine via cauliflower but morco etc are brilliant gas water heaters. Immersion heater for water when on shoreline.

 

[reg]

As others have said Gas not electric for cooking. If you want to supplement it then a simple no frills Microwave oven is useful. 

Make sure it's a simple, lower wattage, manual timer and switch type. And does not have any fancy piezo electronic gizmos etc. 

Can be run off the batteries for a short time but I used to run the engine if it was anything over a couple of minutes. 

I say used to because I no longer use a microwave. 

[Robbo]

5 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Hi everyone new here but wondered if anybody out there may have some advice on kitchen appliances that would best suit a canalboat .  We are restoring a boat at the moment and we are in the process of trying to work out the kitchen.

 

I was wondering if anybody out there uses electric induction hobs or ovens our preference is to go electric rather than LPG for safety reasons but understand that electric hobs/ovens are really heavy on power and would probably drain the batteries if not on shore power does anybody use them with an inverter and if so what brand would you recommend.

 

Bit worried about gas in the boat but at the same time dont want to be reliant on shorepower if cruising for months on end which is what we want to do eventually will have solar when we can afford it as well

 

Any advice would really be appreciated thanks 

 

 

Sorry also thinking about a shoreline fridge anybody use those ?  thanks

I’m not installing gas in my boat and going to be using a electric oven (actually a combi oven/microwave), however I rarely use a oven and have a built in generator.  Microwave cooking via batteries is possible as they use very little ah’s in use. For a hob i’m looking at a diesel Wallas hob as I don’t want to run a generator to just make a cup of tea.  Wallas also do a diesel oven, both of these are not cheap.   You can also get Aga diesel type stoves from the likes of Dickinson and heritage but as these take ages to warm up and send heat into the room their not ideal in summer.   You can look at alcohol stoves, but these tend to be portable.

[jan-kees]

we have made our boat 24V, 800 AH batteries and run the fridge, microwave, washer and induction hob all with he inverter.   ( Ikea Hob, fridge and Microwave, samsung washer/dryer and Victron  inverter).   NO we hardly ever use the drying function of the washer dryer, since it uses up tooooo much water.

240 V appliances are so much cheaper than a 24 or 12 V version. ( plus cheaper and smaller cabling !)

Not sure who would be cooking an hour or so at full capacity on the hob.

I casually finish cooking in 10 - 20 minutes ( yes risotto and rice take longer, but it is at 100 W setting)

No we do not have a generator, but we do have 4 275 W solar panels, and a 190 Amp alternator on the engine

On a typical day, wth some laundry, vacuuming and then either microwaving snacks/meals or cooking on the induction I have not been under 75% op the batteries.

For heating we use a Kabola diesel combination furnace with hot water and forced air (via a radiator heat exchanger which is really compact and was easy to install)

[Dr Bob]

6 hours ago, Peter009 said:

......... the reason I was thinking about electric is because somebody went to the boat show and told me that they are sold everywhere now

When we had our lumpy water boat, sailing from Scotland to Portugal to Greece, we had an induction hob that fitted over the top of our gimballed gas hob. The big thing is though that it was only set up and used when in the marina on shore power. In 'marina mode' ...ie not going anywere ....the induction hob was great. In 'sailing mode', it was packed away and the gas hob used. We got the hob out when we were in a marina for a week or more. Lots of sailing boats are set up like this.......but not canal boats.

On our canal boat, our gas hob is much better than the gimballed stoves and so even when we hook up in a marina, it is almost as good as an induction hob ....and as I would never dream of trying to run an induction hob from the batteries...the gas hob is the way to go. Power management on a boat is bad enough (unless on permanant hook up) without trying to run a high power device like an electric hob. The power has to be put back in from somewhere.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, jan-kees said:

I casually finish cooking in 10 - 20 minutes ( yes risotto and rice take longer, but it is at 100 W setting)

That is not cooking.

You could boil water and rice on a candle.

 

Cooking is taking (say) a joint of meat, Yorkshire puddings, stuffing etc etc. I'd be very surprised if you could do that on a 100w 'ring' in 20 minutes.

[LadyG]

Rice, just bring it to the boil turn off heat,  cover with a towel, leave. Lots of other things will cook this way, trial and error. Go to pub for Sunday lunch, better beer, no washing up.

Edited September 25, 2018 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Beware of  the wattage on the front of microwaves. The true wattage as found on the plate at the back is normally almost double that on the front. The front wattage is cooking power, not consumption.

[OldGoat]

My Management is very anti gas cooking (there is no mains gas where we live0, but on explaining the logistics of electric cooking on a boat and having many hire boat holidays, she now accepts gas for cooking.

Just as well 'cos some of her dishes take a long time to cook - and use the oven.

It depends on what style of cooking you use...

[Peter009]

7 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

You need a certain number of Watts to produce a given amount of heat  and as Watts = Amps X Volts if you reduce the voltage you increase the Amps required to produce the same amount of heat. so a 12V version of a mains unit will  draw roughly 20 times the amps. That is also true if you runit via and inverter but an inverter is worse because it uses some   electricity to power itself.

Thanks Tony that makes sense I am very glad I asked this question as it makes perfect sense to not even consider an electric hob as we have no intention of being in a marina long term so it would not make sense thank you so much for your reply with this I am definitely going gas with the cooking 

58 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

My Management is very anti gas cooking (there is no mains gas where we live0, but on explaining the logistics of electric cooking on a boat and having many hire boat holidays, she now accepts gas for cooking.

Just as well 'cos some of her dishes take a long time to cook - and use the oven.

It depends on what style of cooking you use...

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Beware of  the wattage on the front of microwaves. The true wattage as found on the plate at the back is normally almost double that on the front. The front wattage is cooking power, not consumption.

Thank you good point did not even think of that so will make sure I look at the back plate before buying thanks 

[Peter009]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

When we had our lumpy water boat, sailing from Scotland to Portugal to Greece, we had an induction hob that fitted over the top of our gimballed gas hob. The big thing is though that it was only set up and used when in the marina on shore power. In 'marina mode' ...ie not going anywere ....the induction hob was great. In 'sailing mode', it was packed away and the gas hob used. We got the hob out when we were in a marina for a week or more. Lots of sailing boats are set up like this.......but not canal boats.

On our canal boat, our gas hob is much better than the gimballed stoves and so even when we hook up in a marina, it is almost as good as an induction hob ....and as I would never dream of trying to run an induction hob from the batteries...the gas hob is the way to go. Power management on a boat is bad enough (unless on permanant hook up) without trying to run a high power device like an electric hob. The power has to be put back in from somewhere.

This is probably why the people at the boat show were talking about these sorts of hobs as I dont think it would of been for canalboats given what everyone on here is saying so probably more for people that live on marinas full time or have huge generators I have seen a few LPG hobs that look really nice and some have covers so will go down that road as I will with the oven as overall we need to conserve as much power as possible and be realistic with how we are going to live the people on this forum have been really great thank you no doubt I will have a few more questions in the future so glad I joined here for the first time today things made sense as I was asking the wrong sort of boat owners not people that actually live and own boats like ours thanks very much 

[roland elsdon]

There are now wallas oil hobs that double as cabin heaters if you dont want gas apparently good, that and a diesel oven. If i was starting from scrath that would be my route

[Boater Sam]

, Zanussi KWC1300W washer. Reliable. Smaller, quiet.

Runs on a thermostat so it fills with 40 degree water, happy on a 1800 watt inverter provided I leave a light on to keep the inverter on line and not in power save mode else it pauses in the spin cycle.