Second opinion

[frahkn]

Can anyone recommend a boatyard/engineer, preferably in the midlands, who can be relied upon to give an authoritative second opinion on an issue.

I don't want to go into excessive detail here but the matter under consideration is one of potential changes to stern gear/drive train/engine location. I have a developing (but not immediate) problem and my boatyard have made suggestions for a potential solution. I generally trust them but the proposed  work is extensive, very radical and monumentally expensive so I think I should take further advice.

Obviously I would expect to pay for this advice since the individual giving it would not necessarily be getting the work advised upon.

Thanks.

Frank.

[Rob-M]

You could try speaking to Streethay Wharf, they always seem to be knowledgeable when I have spoken to them.

[Dave_P]

At the risk of sounding like I got out of bed the wrong side this, morning, I wouldn't trust Streethay to go anywhere near my boat.

Not sure where in the Midlands is preferred, but Caggy's are good.

 

[frahkn]

8 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

At the risk of sounding like I got out of bed the wrong side this, morning, I wouldn't trust Streethay to go anywhere near my boat.

Not sure where in the Midlands is preferred, but Caggy's are good.

 

Anywhere you can get a 70' boat to would do but a Midlands location would be easier for me.

Showing my ignorance but who are "Caggy's'?

[Laurie Booth]

17 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Anywhere you can get a 70' boat to would do but a Midlands location would be easier for me.

Showing my ignorance but who are "Caggy's'?

Caggy's are at Tipton near the Factory Locks.

[BEngo]

Might be worth a chat with Justin Green (JG Marine IIRC) of Braunston Bottom Lock .  He travels so could come to you and will happily give independent advice.

 

N

[Dave_P]

9 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Anywhere you can get a 70' boat to would do but a Midlands location would be easier for me.

Showing my ignorance but who are "Caggy's'?

https://www.hotfrog.co.uk/business/west-midlands/tipton/caggys-boatyard

Not the sort of place which has a website.  But worth a call.  

[Richard T]

What about Matty40s? He is based at Stowe Hill and is reliable.

[frahkn]

When I was still working there was a certain type of behaviour which I detested.

A colleague would come to you for advice; you would spend time looking at the issue and advise as best you could.

Some time later you would notice the guy approaching someone else with the same issue.

So, I have received a detailed proposal for addressing my problem, I may accept this proposal in which case the work will be done over the winter. But it's so radical (and costly) and though it sounds reasonable I don't really know enough to suggest alternatives. Therefore I would like one and only one alternative view. As I'm only looking for one, I would like it to be authoritative and independent, problem is I don't know enough to pick someone to approach.

[WotEver]

I agree with the suggestion to talk to Matty. 

[Rickent]

^^^^^Matty would be my choice.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Caggy’s, Ashwood or Coombeswood. 

3 good boat yards. 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Goliath

[Tony Brooks]

56 minutes ago, frahkn said:

When I was still working there was a certain type of behaviour which I detested.

A colleague would come to you for advice; you would spend time looking at the issue and advise as best you could.

Some time later you would notice the guy approaching someone else with the same issue.

So, I have received a detailed proposal for addressing my problem, I may accept this proposal in which case the work will be done over the winter. But it's so radical (and costly) and though it sounds reasonable I don't really know enough to suggest alternatives. Therefore I would like one and only one alternative view. As I'm only looking for one, I would like it to be authoritative and independent, problem is I don't know enough to pick someone to approach.

For the sake of a few minutes describing the problem and the solution offered on here you will probably get a number of opinions. Some will be ill founded but well meaning while others will put their experience to the problem and come up with a solution. If two or three say pretty much the same thing then by looking at the history of those who gave them you can from a judgement as to their value.

Personally I find coming on here ant posting "teaser" type posts as above not quiet plating ball. Basically you have said I want your advice re yards but I don't trust you to give me good advice about the problem and solution or I can't be bothered to put any effort in myself.

I have recently had a question about a very well known and respected boatyard advising a boater that he should move his prop further away from the end of the stern tube. Now, this may well be good advice to many clone-craft with an actual stern post and a stubby stern swim but this one has no actual stern post,   and along finer swim, the stern bearing projects an inch or so behind the point of the swim. The owner says he has no problems so is planning to spend money just because the yard told him. I don't think he will notice any difference at all and may well induce tiller judder.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, frahkn said:

When I was still working there was a certain type of behaviour which I detested.

A colleague would come to you for advice; you would spend time looking at the issue and advise as best you could.

Some time later you would notice the guy approaching someone else with the same issue.

So, I have received a detailed proposal for addressing my problem, I may accept this proposal in which case the work will be done over the winter. But it's so radical (and costly) and though it sounds reasonable I don't really know enough to suggest alternatives. Therefore I would like one and only one alternative view. As I'm only looking for one, I would like it to be authoritative and independent, problem is I don't know enough to pick someone to approach.

This "radical" word concerns me. Do you mean very unusual and even experimental? This sounds potentially very expensive as there is a possibility of failure, or do you just mean very major?  There's a lot to be said for safe sensible conventional engineering, especially on the cut.

Shame you can't tell us more as there is a rage of engineering expertise on this forum.

edit  I meant to say range, but rage is probable fine

..............Dave

Edited April 12, 2018 by dmr

[frahkn]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

For the sake of a few minutes describing the problem and the solution offered on here you will probably get a number of opinions. Some will be ill founded but well meaning while others will put their experience to the problem and come up with a solution. If two or three say pretty much the same thing then by looking at the history of those who gave them you can from a judgement as to their value.

Personally I find coming on here ant posting "teaser" type posts as above not quiet plating ball. Basically you have said I want your advice re yards but I don't trust you to give me good advice about the problem and solution or I can't be bothered to put any effort in myself.

I have recently had a question about a very well known and respected boatyard advising a boater that he should move his prop further away from the end of the stern tube. Now, this may well be good advice to many clone-craft with an actual stern post and a stubby stern swim but this one has no actual stern post,   and along finer swim, the stern bearing projects an inch or so behind the point of the swim. The owner says he has no problems so is planning to spend money just because the yard told him. I don't think he will notice any difference at all and may well induce tiller judder.

I absolutely understand your point but I am certain that were I to give details, you and the rest of the better informed posters would say " I would have to see the situation for myself". Which, obviously, the vast majority could not do.

I am not 'teasing' and do not want to identify the yard concerned because I do trust their advice but they are 'generalists' and I would like a more specialist opinion.

6 hours ago, dmr said:

This "radical" word concerns me. Do you mean very unusual and even experimental? This sounds potentially very expensive as there is a possibility of failure, or do you just mean very major?  There's a lot to be said for safe sensible conventional engineering, especially on the cut.

Shame you can't tell us more as there is a rage of engineering expertise on this forum.

edit  I meant to say range, but rage is probable fine

..............Dave

I mean, amongst other things, moving the engine about 3 feet to solve a drive shaft problem.

[frahkn]

8 hours ago, Goliath said:

Caggy’s, Ashwood or Coombeswood. 

3 good boat yards. 

 

Thank you for the Ashwood suggestion, I hadn't considered them but my boat is an Orion and there may be some Orion guys still there.

[Sea Dog]

5 hours ago, frahkn said:

Thank you for the Ashwood suggestion, I hadn't considered them but my boat is an Orion and there may be some Orion guys still there.

Sounds like a plan.  Clearly we do not know what your issue or the proposed solution is, but I would add this:  nearly all narrowboats (probably all Orions) do not have, or have any need for, stern gear which is "extensive, very radical and monumentally expensive"  to quote your original post.

I hope your lovely Orion gets better really soon! 

 

[Bee]

Intriguing. Radical and monumentally expensive sounds like putting the engine on the roof or something. In my experience raising / lowering the engine, inserting thrust bearings / plummer blocks and stuff is not horribly dear, wish I knew what was being planned......

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, Bee said:

Intriguing. Radical and monumentally expensive sounds like putting the engine on the roof or something. In my experience raising / lowering the engine, inserting thrust bearings / plummer blocks and stuff is not horribly dear, wish I knew what was being planned......

If only to know who it may be best to avoid.

[alan_fincher]

I think it is very hard to think of a "drive shaft problem" that it would necessary to move an engine by several feet to resolve it.  (Unless, just possibly you have an engine that is deliberately offset to the side - highly unusual, but a very few are).

Without better information about what  the  problem is, or what the proposed solution might be, I think people will struggle to give you good advice about who else to involve, as this sounds so far removed from "msinstream" that you are likely to need someone very specialist.

[Nightwatch]

I think the op is only asking for names for him to approach for a second opinion from the one he has already.

[frahkn]

16 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think it is very hard to think of a "drive shaft problem" that it would necessary to move an engine by several feet to resolve it.  (Unless, just possibly you have an engine that is deliberately offset to the side - highly unusual, but a very few are).

Without better information about what  the  problem is, or what the proposed solution might be, I think people will struggle to give you good advice about who else to involve, as this sounds so far removed from "msinstream" that you are likely to need someone very specialist.

Yes, I have an engine that was deliberately offset to one side (god knows why) but does not have hydraulic drive (GKW).

Yes, I do want someone specialist.

Yes, it is a highly unusual situation, that is why it's so potentially recognisable and why I don't want to upset a trusted (but not specialised) team at the yard.

There is almost certainly an expert out there - he/she would have to see the set up for theirselves in order to give useful advice - but I don't know who that is. 

I am not disrespecting the huge body of expertise on this forum but I could not take seriously any advice based only on reading about the issue (apart from anything else, I don't know enough to be certain that I would not miss a relevant point in my description).

[Nightwatch]

I've no idea, but what about the cost of installing a hydraulic drive to an off set engine?

[frahkn]

14 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I've no idea, but what about the cost of installing a hydraulic drive to an off set engine?

The only reason that I have not researched this is that it would not be a complete solution. The off-set engine also makes the starter motor inaccessible - well it looks inaccessible and the boatyard say it is.

[alan_fincher]

57 minutes ago, frahkn said:

Yes, I have an engine that was deliberately offset to one side (god knows why) but does not have hydraulic drive (GKW).

Thank you.

That makes your situation quite a bit clearer.

As I understand it this offset was sometimes done to create a greater walkway down one side of the engine, though in a boat I saw which had a "traditional" style engine room forward of a back cabin, I thought it looked decidedly odd.

The idea of "spider joints" being driven at a considerable angle has always concerned me, particularly if they are also taking the thrust, and I'm guessing the problem you are trying to solve may well be related to that in some way or another.